IVF/ICSI Support Group

Hi minako. So u going for another scan again? Try the red bean soup. I take it and it do helps. I also drinks red dates + wolberries + dried longan tea.

Flowers u take care. I pray everything goes well with u. After my fet 2weeks ago I eat kampung chicken which I cook with red dates & wolfberries. I feel heaty but I helps a lot to warm the womb. When I kanna sore throat, I stop eating it for a while.

Perper, dun give up. Miracle can happen. We never know it. I know it is hard for u but never give up. I pray may God give u strength to go on. Dont despair.
 


Shainie, thanks
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I intend to intend to take the kampung chicken with red dates too.
 
Shainie, doc increase progynova dosage & scan again on Tue. I was shocked tat my lining didn't even grow 1mm after 4 days.. Maybe I should really drink red bean soup. But I can feel my body heaty cos having breakouts. Dr Zou asked me come for acu on Mon again before my scan on Tue.

Look on the bright side tat @ least my et won't crash mth end & I dun have to worry no one cover my duties. I can finally take my mind off wk during 2ww
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hazel, i've done D21 BT many months before, i think more than a year if i'm not wrong & results shd be satisfactory (i presume it's ok since dr nvr mention anything on my result). Dr loh said maybe its the pregnyl jab that i wasn't reactive to. u r rite, he added 2 more jabs for the maturation. it is the way dr loh ans my qns made me feel that my chance of success is low. when i asked him how of his patients react to the 2 add'l jabs, he paused & ans v softly said some did but some didn't. i dare not pin too much hope. i knw there is no sure way to every problem, now i can only hope for miracle. Hazel, ur words are always reassuring, thks.

Shainie, thks, i really hope miracle can happen to me.
 
Perper Im on short protocol first time and retrieve 30 eggs
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but at the end also left not much..this round I'm trying the long protocol to see how's the quality n quanity ..

Minako when is ur next scan ? U r on day what ? Still in time?
 
flowers during my fresh i also do take kampong chicken but cook it without red dates + wolfberries and it did not work for me. Further more I keep on drinking cold drinks. This round I really pantang. I also take durian on day 2 and day 3 then stop coz kanna sore throat which I cough like mad. I also take brazil nut but also stop coz the sore throat then continue again when my sore throat subsided. I wear stoking when I sleep after et - day 10 past transfer.
 
Sarah, take plain chick essence without herbs if u r taking bottled ones. If u cook ur own, red dates n wolfberries r fine.
 
piggy, i'm the opposite fm u, was on long protocol, next round short protocol. maybe diff method works for diff pple. hope u hv gd no. & quality of eggs.

minako, dr zou ever mentioned that protein & acu helps in lining too. try the red bean soup & take more protein food, hope ur lining will increase.
 
Daintree, this is ur 2nd pregnancy right? Is ur tummy visible from bloatedness now? Yesterday I was buying stretch pants n the sales girl asked me if I m preg n how many mths! My mum said my bro also asked her twice.. I think m really fat from bloatedness!
 
Perper, u know dr Loh. He speaks his mind, sometimes upsetting his patients. I Also was hurt by him. I ever kept asking him the side effects of new jabs or med he gave me. He told me if I worry so much then dun take. He said wan to take dun keep thinking abt the side effects. At ET this round I was concerned over my embyro quality. He also told me dun be too overly concerned over that. His mood was gd then. If not sure kana from him again! :p
 
Mabel, sorry to hear that your MIL is manipulating the household and making life miserable sounding like the 'i know all' elder
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it's not easy... When I had my first child 11 yrs ago, my own was the one making life like he'll for me, and as she takes care of my nephew with my son whom r the same age, I was at her mercy most of the time and my sister was spared from it all... So many times I cried to myself wondering y is it my own mother that is doing all these to me.... Over the years, alot of things happened, I forgave her though whatever that had happened will always be there, have faith, as a daughter or daughter in law, we can only do so much, do our part and one day someone else will teach them the lessons we wanted so much to slam right into them, but ironically if we pray and just forgive, one day them come back telling u someone just done that to them and thru realizes they were wrong... I waited 7 whole years, someone taught my mum the lesson and I just lent her my shoulder and our relationship improved tremendously after that... Have faith my dear, pray and let god lead the way and open the doors for u... Hugz

Hazel, yes,I look like 2-3 months pregnant if I am not squeezing into my old pair of jeans :p think the 'seasoned' uterus is letting itself go totally
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daintreez - yeah...thanks for sharing your experiences too. Just that it's sad that there is little sense of belonging in the family after staying together for 10 over years despite my efforts. My hubby knows it too. But I haev never make things difficult for him. I normally just keep quiet and stay in my room if I am unhappy. My father in law especially likes to pass jugements and comments that angers me and even my hubby. He is the least involve in taking care of my son and whenever anything happens, he is the first to jump and point fingers. *sigh*. Anyway, I am just glad that my hubby is understanding and loves me alot. My son too loves me dearly and my in laws can be very jealous of that.

BTW, about the tummy, though I am going through a pending miscarriage, I share the same tummy issue. Have to wear loose clothes to cover up when going out with friends. Its much larger in the night for me.
 
hi Pepper - it must have been really hard to learn that none of the eggs made it to ET *hugz*.

I hope you will consider giving it another try when you are ready. Unfortunately, IVF is abit like "masak-masak". For some sistas, the standard recipe works but for some of us, need some "secret recipe" with some tweaks to get success. IVF#1 is often a learning session for most doctors, now Dr Loh will know how to adjust your meds to give the next round a better chance.

If you won't mind looking at the cup being half-full, this cycle you learnt that you have a good reserve (31 eggs!) and you know that most of the follicles tapped during ER contained eggs (some ladies have follicles growing but empty - no eggs after tapping), only that this round alot were immature - just need to get the meds right the next round.

KK & dr SF Loh is supposed to be one of the best place for IVF in Singapore so if you have faith to give it another try, who knows they may be able to get the formula right the next round.

The reality is despite the success and failures, I believe most of the time the doctors don't really know what caused the success/failure :) They can identify some related/known factors, but no one really has the answer.

Do take your time to find some peace. The 2nd round IS going to be more daunting (because once we have experienced failure, we know the reality if another failure is very real), but if we don't try, we will never know.

Just a thought: you said dr loh mentioned one possibility is not reacting to pregnyl properly. Is there anyway to test if the trigger shot (pregnyl) may have caused the follicles/oocytes to be not ready (immature)? ie, I know pregnyl is used for IUIs to egg release. Any chance you can do a test cycle on pregnly to see if pregnyl is an issue before your next fresh? (I may be talking rubbish here so sorry if your doctor laughs in your face at this suggestion Or if you had IUI before, did you face any problems with the trigger shot?

Also, I read your earlier post that even on trigger date you were expecting 25 follicles but many small (likely immature). Did the clinic inform you that only a few follicles looked mature during ER? Did you ask if there was any issue with the suppression stage (ie. lucrin)?

Sorry for the long post but I just wanted to say please consider to give it another try if you can find strength & have resources to give another go, & a big hug for this round.
 
Hi BNB,

Started oral contraceptive pills last week, and if all goes well on cd21 scan, will be starting suppressions on 6/7!

Cycle buddy definitely - yeah
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hi sistas,

I know we are advised to stop TCM meds during ivf once start stims to avoid the tcm meds clashing with the ivf meds. From what I have read, most sistas follow this rule.

Just wanted to know if any sistas continued to take tcm meds during the stim period until ER? esp anyone who BFP?

I have decided to stop once I start lucrin but still taking dr zou's meds for next few weeks. Will be continuing accu but wondering if any sistas continued to take tcm meds during stim period? just curious...
 
Hi hazel,

i understand wat u are going through cos i gave up my job and stayed at home 2yrs to embark on my ivf journey, and exhausted all my savings and my poor hubby was the bread winner at that time.

That time we also had to come up with a difficult decision to quit my job as my boss and my cover was not very supportive of me embarking on ivf.

Hence i made the decision to give up my job..and it was a tedious decision, especially after going through unsuccessful tries. That time, i was quite disppointed as i tried many remedies and even dr loh said that my embbies was of good quality and couldn't explain why i failed 2x either. We can only relate the reason that it could be due to my endometrosis condition. So i basically gave up after my failed frozen fet last october... May be when i give up, my stress level is not as high as before and i managed to concieve naturally. My gynae told me that our body can work miracles like he has a few patients that went throught a few rounds of ivf but ended up conceiving naturally a few months later, cos sometimes our body needs the ivf medications to kick start our reproductive system to work....it has happened before.

So don't give up!!! IVF is not the last resort.
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hi 12bmom,

that time during my ivf cycle, i also follow dr zou's advise to go for straight 3-4 days acupuncture before ER cos she said will improve blood flow to the womb and also improve lining. Did you try to drink chicken essense daily see if it helps.
 
hahahaha hazel,

me tooo..esp in the morning after clearing my bowels, tummy is the smallest but by evening back to bloated and big again heeheee
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Heng ah i stil able to squeeze in my current clothes but hb quite worried keep asking me if its tooo tight for me and if i should try to change to bigger and comfy clothes. But i went to alot of shops, the clothes will not last me more than 1-2mths and maternity wear is toooo big and loose for me now. So now stuck in between lor.
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hi pepper,

u may want to ask ur hb to take tcm 2-3 mths to prepare himself (his sperms) before you embark on ivf cos my last round i managed to convince my hb to take tcm prescribed by dr zou so that his sperms will be strong for cycle, i was really kiasu and paraniod so my hb gave in. hahahaha
 
hi ron, ur qns made me realised that there are so much doubts that i didn't clarify with dr loh. probably i was so upset that i didn't think of any qns to ask & also didn't knw what to ask too. i was basically jus listened to what dr loh said. my dh & i kept silence throughout the session with dr loh, i was trying to hold back my tears, leaving dr loh did the talking. he explained in v detailed to us and i only threw him one qn before i left the room.

what he explained was that my body might not react to the pregnyl jab and hence my eggs couldn't be triggered to maturation. the lab did place my other immature eggs in a culture medium to let them mature but to no avail. kkivf didn't inform me the condition of my eggs after ER, the nurse only informed me the no. of eggs retrieved. it was only later in the day that i received a call from the embrologist informing me that only 3 eggs were usuable. He asked my dh to be prepared to produce sperm the following day if my immature eggs managed to mature in the culture medium. unfortunately, my eggs didn't make it to maturation.

the last scan before ER i hv 25 follicles, of which at least 8 are of the bigger sizes. so i expect to hv ard 8 mature eggs. i'm not sure if there is any issue with suppression stage that cld affect my eggs. will suppression stage affect all these? i didn't ask dr. not sure if anyone here knws...

i hv done iui once but was not successful, how do we knw if we hv issue with pregnyl during iui?

ron, really appreciate ur analysis on my situation. i was blur blur and didn't think of all these things..
 
chris, dun think my dh want to try tcm anymore. actually i'm also very kiasu but we were quite exhausted from all the ttcing. we hv been to countless tcm, seeking treatment for 8 yrs b4 resorting to our last resort ie ivf. we even went to several temples to pray, placing all the fengshui thingy. we were desperate that we wld try anything that pple suggested. i knw sises here hv tried harder, longer period & more times in ivf/iui. actually i was prepared to try 3 fresh ivf (till i exhausted the govt fund) & many times fet if possible. unfortunately, i didnt even hv embbies to transfer, & was told that i might hv intrinsic problem that cldn't be solved if my 2nd round didn't work. i'll jus go try 2nd fresh once & for all. dun think i want to even go acu next round. i lost my kiasu-ness liao.
 
Hi Ron, gd to hear that u will be my cycle buddy.
Are u with TMC, Dr Cheng?
So different protocol, that u still need to take Oral contra, before suppresion jab.
We will jiayou together, & BFP together. So excited
 
Hazel - Constipation yes...Still have cos have been on progesterone supports plus I read that the uterus grows during pregnancy and so is pressing against the rectum. Body also slows down the digestion to ensure that baby receives the nutrients required. I took pitted prunes which did wonders plus lotsa veggie and water.
 
hi hazel/mabel,

i don't have much problems with constipation currently. <<touchwood>> but have digestion problem so now very obedient take 3 meals and 2 light snacks daily. However i'm still apprehensive in taking milk cos last round about 2 weeks ago after taking milk i vomitted... so now abit phobia.
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Hi BNB – yes, this round back with Dr Cheng. Dr Cheng puts most of his patients on OCP the month before regardless of long or antagonist protocol.

Any more cycle buddies with us?
 
(sistas, sorry for another long post)

Hi J03,
Nice to see you back. Take some time to rest the body and soul for your Aug FET.

If you don't mind me being frank , you may want find some method of relieving stress. It may not be the cause of your recurring m/c but from your posts you sound like quite a <kan-cheong> person (which increases stress level) . Dr zou always will reminds me our body should reduce stress before we will succeed. Do find a method of relaxing that works for you, so that you can learn to relax during your next cycle. Maybe meditation, or talk to a counsellor, or exercise, so that when you are hitting the stress ladder next time, you can recognise and tackle it positively with your own strength!

You also mentioned you wanted to see dr P. Tseng. Have you visited him (or another doc) to get a 2nd opinion of repeat m/c? If you have not, like Su_yana mentioned, maybe want to arrange consultation. At least you have peace in mind that another good doctor has reviewed your case &amp; give some consistent feedback.

Dr Loh is very good (I think he's prob one of the best in town!) but sometimes a fresh eye may give some ideas. If both docs say the same thing, you know it's quite accurate. Also a more “talkative” doctor may have more time to meet your needs (to answer any questions you have). Each consultation only cost $150-$200 so probably good to get some piece of mind. No harm to pay for Dr Loh’s “magic hands” but another doctor’s patience and explanation since we already pay so much for ivf compared to doing getting a 2nd opinion.

I know there are tests for autoimmune issues, but there is also PGD (pre-implantation genetic diagnosis) which tests key chromosomal markers in the embryo before ET for defective chromosomes. You can google PGD for details - this is one cause of m/c. but from what I understand these tests is not available in Singapore (I can’t confirm not available in SG but I think I was told this before). Again, perhaps another doctor who is more ‘talkative” can help give you some answers to your questions.

In the end, my personal thoughts are unfortunately not even the best doctor can tell us why m/c happens even-though they may make some educated guesses of the causes. The mystery of creating life is still a medical black-hole – the doctors know how it works, but they do not yet really know how to fix if it doesn’t work. It would be great if they did as we won’t have issues of infertility, m/c, stillbirths, SIDS, SANDS and birth defects. This is a reality of life we have to accept. I know we should never stop asking the questions, so the best persons to ask the question will be the doctors. Do get the 2nd or 3rd opinion. That’s what we pay them for (their expertise and experience!
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)

Stay positive, but keep on fighting. Maybe we may one day get lucky and be able to deliver that baby.
 
Ron, PGD is not available here n is very expensive! When dr Loh performed d&amp;c, can request for kayotyping test on the fetus. If is after 1st tri, can perform the test on the placenta instead. It cost abt $700. Usually early stage m/c, dr Loh wun suggest the test coz he always says it is most likely chromosome defects n hence no PT wasting money. Kayotyping test is a chromosome test. Dr Loh did the test for me when I had a mid term miscarriage coz he wanted to know why. In the end Also nv find any chromosome abnormalities. Well, I hv come To a point where I believe is all fate &amp; god's will. Dun think too much n dun keep dwelling on the past then no stress. Hv to be fair for every bb we conceived. If we bring our bad past experience to the next pregnancy, is not fair to the bb at all.

做人看开点。 太执卓最后害的还是自己。
 
J03, I really enjoyed chatting with you online here some time back when I first joined this thread. You have always been eager to share your 2ww recipes and reassuring other sisters about their anxieties, and I think at the batch of sisters then really appreciate having you around. Being online we can't stop what others say, don't take things too personally nor dampen your mood, and don't lose hope. I'm sure those who have graduated from this thread and yet sometimes checking out this thread like me, are rooting for you. If financially possible, take a long leave from work before you start your next cycle. My work used to be very stressful and I'm glad I took a year off to do ivf so at least when I'm coping with the stims and side effects during 2ww etc, dun have to juggle work stress at the same time. Finance will be tight, but it's a matter of choice and priorities. All the best, gal
 
Mabel, hugz... I know it's not easy... But like u said, you have a wonderful husband and a doting son
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I know that's the biggest support u have... Hope your in laws will 'wake up' one day... Sometimes they don't know how fortunate they r, compared to some old folks that had been forsaken by their own kids....

Flowers, hehe, thanks for your compliments haha

Hazel, I also have constipation, but I try to go to the toilet every morning to 'try' I read some where n they recommended us to do it in a routine so the body will recognize the routine to work harder to release the bowels too :p of course sometimes I do sit there for 10-15 mins with nothing at the 'custom'

Did any of the sisters have bleeding near the sac? My scan done at AMC on 21/6, doc Loh saw the ultrasound pics printed by the sonographer and advised that my pregnancy is still not stable as there's some bleeding inside beside my sac... From the pic it looks like water mark.... Is it common? Hazel, do u know of this? Thanks
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Daintree, is it blood clot? If so i rememberes some graduated sisters had that at early stage. But it subsequently disappeared. dun think abt it so tt no stress. Just dun carry heavy stuff n walk too much. It may cause bleeding.

Gan, u had that too last yr right? If u reading this, maybe u can alienate the fear. Thanks
 
Hazel, he didn't mentioned it's clot. DH and I both heard him saying 'u see this water beside the sac is blood' LOL, then he asked me to stay away from smokers etc, that the developing blood vessels might be affected by smoke and so on.... And also said that it's not stable yet, take duphaston till 12th week and hopefully by next scan stable le...

Was a little worried but again don't know if what he said was 'serious' :p

Yes, I will avoid heavy stuffs n walking...
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Daintree, logical analysis I dun think is constantly bleeding. If so, the sac will all be filled with blood &amp; that will cause bleeding. I remember ur next Visit is 3 wks later? If it is serious, dr Loh wld hv wanted to see u sooner right? U know him lah, some time says things that make us more worried. My first preg, first visit I was so happy that I saw heartbeat coz I was worrying sick from the low bhcg reading. Guess wat he told me? He dampened my spirit n told me "next visit the heartbeat must still be there if not....". Yes, he liberally said that n made me so upset!

First trimester is always unstable. But there is nothing we can do abt it. Since bfp, I try very hard not to think abt the past n the upcoming scan. If negative thoughts come into my mind I will quickly stop it from wondering off. It works. I feel more relaxed n there is no stress. The stress is not being able to unclog the pipes!! I know on the day of scan I will be v scared. But when I m there, then I cross it.

so, u relax n dun think abt the bleeding too. The day still passes regardless u stress or relaxed. So, may just be relax abt it right?
 
Hazel, yes I agree with u
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I think he definitely have more to share with us but I guess he really don't wanna scare of daylights out of us :p haha. Yes, I'll relax... Having come so far, just gotta be a good patient, eat our supplements and go for our appointment as scheduled
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Sisters, in the midst of tiaoing my body with dr zou while waiting for fet, i'm taking blackmores' evening primrose oil 1000mgx2 every morning. I stopped taking after i ovulated. Is it ok to take EPO?
 
i heard EPO cannot take it daily. I cant rem if its cant take after ovulation, or before.

may i know where can buy royal jelly to eat?
 
Hi Ron
Appreciate ur long post..;)
Yes, after i bfp two mths ago, had seen doc paul for my first scan n i think this time, i will go back to him again for 2nd opinion since he seen me before though only once..
Need a gynea who can say more n explain to me in more detail abt my bt results. And yes,my forbe is definitely there since is not first bad experience so paranoid abit.. This is really not within my control..;(

Hi RitzC
Thk u so much.. Ur post is so heart warming n thoughful that i cry when reading it.. Yes, frankly, i miss all my buddies incl u in the apr thread.. We r really so close then n walk thru the tough journey together.. ;'(
U r right that we cant stop what other pp writes, i am already glad as long as there r still other kind souls out there who knows the pain that i hv been thru n root for me..;( i know i am stress but sometime such things r not within my control.. After been ttcing for 6yrs with 3 mc, i really cant help not to feel stress.. Infertility is already an issue for me n finally bfp n yet cant maintain the pregnancy really is a double blow for me.. Worst is after bt, gynea doesnt say much except say cont with asprin which i hv been taking for the last 2rounds of art n it still mc really worries me.. And his next reply is it will be a gambler for me every time after i bfp.. I was so sad to hear there r no other solutions, feeling so helpless..hence hope that if any sisters here hv the same experience as me n had successfully give birth can advise me what other solutions there is..
Yes, my work is indeed stress but if no work, no $$ cant do any art too..moreover, my job dun allows unpaid leave else i will want to take to rest n relax fully for 1yr too..Sigh.. Ur co is sooo good..
Gal, wht r ur stages n next plan? Thks for remembering me n lend me a listen ear.. Really appreciate..;)

Hope my previous sisters like u, moo, jt, ron, minako, piggy, stickybfp (our nice ivf guru), bnb, Flowers, Valteen, rainzz, perper, pinkcarpri, qing22, queenie etc will bfp n hv a smooth 9mth pregnancy to give birth to healthy bb soon!! Will root for u gals too..
 
Thanks J03, so touching that u include me in the list.
I read through the past posts, anyway we can't stop others writing unpleasant things, but they are still alot of nice sistas around.
Don't be disheartened, get other dr advise then decide wat is next step.
Ya, miss stickybfp.....
 

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