IVF/ICSI Support Group


Babystarz,
Similar to your case, I had bleeding after BPF. Went to KKH as it was a sunday and received all negative words and remarks from the A&E docs. Telling me can see a sac but nothing inside and my reading was 9000+. They also told me could be ectopic and my pregnancy is not viable. They even sent me for detailed scan (they claimed cannot see anything) and also want me to repeat blood test 48hours later.

After that I went back to see my pte gynea, my gynea can see heartbeat.

Perhaps you may want to seek a second opinion from a pte gynea.
 
500 over to 11k does not mean a thing.
Bhcg shld double at least every 2 days. That's the min. On tt basis, 500, 1000, 2000, 4,000, 8,000, 16000, etc.if see nothing still, tomorrow, bhcg will not be doubled.

A sac is visible at bhcg abt 1200. If nothing is seen,ans pregnancy stopped developing before the gestational sac become large enough to see on US. The body may not know a miscarriage has happened n continue to produce bhcg at a slow rate. It will continue until the body realised it.. n we dunno when!
 
Babystarz said:
My Q to them was simple I tot - if it's possible not to c anything on e departmental o/s. Which is supposed to b a much stronger o/s.

I know BT tmr is key. Agonizing wait tats all....
Click to expand...

Hi Babystarz,

Did the doctor scan you from below or stomach? If stomach definitely cant see anything yet.
 
jklim4642 said:
500 over to 11k does not mean a thing.
Bhcg shld double at least every 2 days. That's the min. On tt basis, 500, 1000, 2000, 4,000, 8,000, 16000, etc.if see nothing still, tomorrow, bhcg will not be doubled.

A sac is visible at bhcg abt 1200. If nothing is seen,ans pregnancy stopped developing before the gestational sac become large enough to see on US. The body may not know a miscarriage has happened n continue to produce bhcg at a slow rate. It will continue until the body realised it.. n we dunno when!
Click to expand...

Agreed with you. It took me ard 10 weeks for the ordeal to happen naturally...
 
jklim4642 said:
500 over to 11k does not mean a thing.
Bhcg shld double at least every 2 days. That's the min. On tt basis, 500, 1000, 2000, 4,000, 8,000, 16000, etc.if see nothing still, tomorrow, bhcg will not be doubled.

A sac is visible at bhcg abt 1200. If nothing is seen,ans pregnancy stopped developing before the gestational sac become large enough to see on US. The body may not know a miscarriage has happened n continue to produce bhcg at a slow rate. It will continue until the body realised it.. n we dunno when!
Click to expand...

I also read that a sac should be seen at least by 5000 hcg ...
 
Hi ladies..went for my first scan today after starting this 2nd fresh cycle on 10/2/14..had ard 12 follicles with size ranging from 12-18 each side with a lining of 8.5 triple..doctor has decided to proceed with ER on Wednesday..will be going for HCG trigger later at 8pm..hopefully my eggs are of better quality this time...
 
santhiya86 said:
Hi ladies..went for my first scan today after starting this 2nd fresh cycle on 10/2/14..had ard 12 follicles with size ranging from 12-18 each side with a lining of 8.5 triple..doctor has decided to proceed with ER on Wednesday..will be going for HCG trigger later at 8pm..hopefully my eggs are of better quality this time...
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Santhiya86, all the best!
 
Babystarz, like what the other sisters suggest, you may wish to seek a 2nd opinion from private dr tonight. But then again, your appt with Dr S is just tmr so you may wish to stick to Dr S. My cycle dates are similar to yours so perhaps can be of some reference to you.

My BT was 3 feb. Beta was 1087. Scheduled 1st scan with Dr Sadhana is today 17 feb. I had brown spotting since 5 or 6 feb. Aft observing for a few days and checking with kkivf nurse, I decided to go to Kkh 24-hr O&G clinic for a check on 10 feb. Duty dr saw 2 sacs measuring 7+mm each. No heartbeat at that stage. Dr increased my med dosage to 3x daily. The brown spotting continued. On 14 feb nite, I returned home to find a blood soaked pantyliner. Rushed to KKH 24-hr clinic again. Waited for dr to return from emergency operation and attended to. the nurses were sympathetic and asked me to rest in beds in room 3. There were 3 bleeding cases b4 me but the Dr was quick and saw me within 15-20 mins upon her return. Similar to my 1st visit on 10 feb, dr checked my cervix and did a vagina scan. Blood was flowing out from my cervix and dr pulled out some bloody tissue and showed me a translucent little sac. Then she did the vaginal scan and saw 1 sac with heartbeat! I'm glad it was her on duty that nite cos I can tell she's very experienced while the 1st dr I saw on 10 feb was a pretty old dr but not so good. I was admitted for observation. Over the weekend, I continued to have red staining and developed slight fever of 37.9-38 deg. Was given Panadol, cold compress and finally antibiotic. I was pretty disturbed by the continued red blood stains and so scared I'll lose my remaining baby. The ward dr came by again on sat nite aft hearing that I had increased blood leaking out. Took blood and urine samples to check for infection which came out negative. The ward dr asked the labour ward dr to come check on me too at sat midnite. Came in 1+ hr and told me it's unlikely I'm miscarriaging again as the pad will be totally soaked in 1 hr if that happens. Mine was 1-2 blood discharge then another blot in 1/2 hr. Sun continued with red staining and some hardened red sticklike tissue till 5pm. I went to toilet to pee and there was some red stains on toilet paper as usual and then I pulled out a big piece of bloody tissue abt 1/3 palm sized. I saw some membrane like tissue covering part of the blood tissue. I freaked out n called the nurse. They took it away for lab analysis. I was thinking this could be my remaining bb. Sniff sniff. Anyway, nothing I can do but wait till mon to scan. Come mon (today), the nurses got a 9am appt at ADC. The scan was not conclusive. The sonographer had a hard time finding the sacs. Finally, she saw 1 empty sac and 1 yolk sac. No heartbeat or fetal pole seen though. The ward dr came at 11am to share this scan finding with me and ask me to return 1 week later to scan again n see Dr S. Said he discussed with Dr S b4 speaking to me. Throughout my stay (fri midnite to mon). I did not see or talk to Dr S. I was hoping to see her today afternoon at my scheduled appt with her but it was just postponed to nx week w/o my agreement. Anyway, I thought if she's not keen to see me, I have no wish to continue with her. I called my previous gynae Dr Loh clinic and got an appt this wed to see him. I may not get positive news but at least I'm sure he will be able to tell me more and whether my 1st miscarriage (remaining blood clots etc are still there?) etc

As the rest say, you should be able to see the sac by now. But no harm getting a 2nd opinion from a good gynae who is able to answer your qns and not leave you hanging. Maybe you will get to see the sac hidden somewhere. Wish you luck
 
I went thru similar case as baby sparkles. I have even higher bhcg when confirmed pregnant n went thru v bad morning sickness. I had an empty sac. I nv go for 2nd opinion at pte gynae. There's no need to. Coz bhcg wun lie. Also if a gynae cant detect a foetal pole or heartbeat, he or she is not fit to b a gynae. Also they wun ask to terminate immediately. They will wait n see and trust me tt wait is a torture. I knew at 6 wks pregnant, dr tan who was covering dr loh told me not to be optismtic. V slim chance. Waited 1.5 wks for dr loh to come bk n tt wk was hell coz of the bad morning sickness. Same diagnosis. Best part is my body didnt even know i have miscarried, no bleeding all these while. I had to do a d&c as there was a sac.
 
Overall, I'm glad I was admitted as the drs could check on me and kept any fever/infection in check. I had proper bed rest and good care from the nurses though it chose to stay in subsidized 5 bedder. The ward drs changes daily and are not specifically trained in O&G but I can't complain. The 24-hr clinic nurses were efficient and drs decent though quality varies. The only thing that left me less than satisfied was Dr S. But well, not happy just change dr lor.
 
Baby sparkles, the attending dr did discuss with Dr S prior to speaking to me. But well I prefer to speak to Dr S as the young ward dr is just a generalist. Not expert in this field.
 
pumpkin_pie said:
Baby sparkles, the attending dr did discuss with Dr S prior to speaking to me. But well I prefer to speak to Dr S as the young ward dr is just a generalist. Not expert in this field.
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Even if dr S is too busy to visit u at the ward she should not just postpone your meetup date with her. This is unacceptable. Did they explain why it was postpone?
 
Pumpkin I was holding my breath as I read your post. Are you home now? Anymore staining? There's still a sac inside right? Hopefully all will be okay..
 
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My first mc was like yours. I bled n wiped a piece of tissue like liver. I saw a translucent blob on it too and knew instantly that was my baby.
 
I just had a miscarriage at week 8 last august too. Hcg went double for first 2 bt n subsequently slow down n gonna postpone the scan since hcg did went higher. In the end got to abort all support cos baby not growing well. Yes I agree that the wait was terrible even though I already knew not very positive
 
Hi dearies, tks for all your kind words and support.
Jumbo girl, the ward dr just updated me on the scan results which I already saw on screen at the sonographer's room. From what the ward dr said, Dr S just told him that she'll see me again in 1 week's time. By then, we will know if the bb has grown (hv hb and fetal pole). He did not dare or think abt asking her if today's appt will proceed. I ask him and he just said 'oh I did not ask her that qn'. So my guess is that she has nothing to add to the scan report so no point meeting me. I had waited the whole weekend to see her and then this. Oh well, I just fired her as my gynae. Can't blame her totally but I prefer to get a gynae I'm comfortable with since her fees are even more ex than some private gynae. Will see dr Loh + switch to subsided at KKH to get updates on my lab results of the blood clots/sacs I passed out + blood/urine test results. Lab results on blood tissues need 2-3 weeks while blood/urine samples take 48 hrs (not counting weekends)
 
Sunflower, I'm still at KKH. Scheduled to discharge tmr noon if my fever stays away for 24 hrs. From today's scan, still hv 1 yolk sac + 1 empty one. Hopefully can develop normally. Else hv to prepare for D&C. Oh my, u went thru the same thing too! Hugs dear. It's quite a scary experience. The translucent blob was picked up by the dr at 24-hr clinic. The piece of tissue was exactly like u described - a piece of liver! Initially I Thot it was my 2nd twin cos it happened on sun evening, long after I lost twin 1. But seems like twin 2 is still in me. Wards drs here tell me to bed rest but walk to toilet cos prolong bed rest is no good too. They got the physiotherepist to give me compression stockings from start of my stay here.
 
Baby sparkles, I would think so. My hubby kept regretting coming to KKH. Said we would hv better care and faster scans at private hosps. But overall, I think at this stage of early pregnancy, the drs can't do much except give us jabs and meds to support the pregnancy. The rest is up to nature.

JY everyone!! Hope our dreams of having our babies in our arms will come true soon.
 
Sunflower, forgot to reply 1 of your qn. After the liver like tissue came out ytd evening, I had less bleeding/staining. It turned more brownish and today I had spotting only. Hope it will stop soon. What abt u at that time?
 
Hi pumpkin_pie. I'm so sorry to hear about yr ordeal. *hugs* I can't imagine the pain n heart ache u r going through now... Please be strong. I will keep you n yr remaining bb in my prayers.
 
Tks hope2bb. Many things can still happen after BFP but if I nv try, will nv have a chance at succeeding. Have been resting and will continue to rest at home.

Lucky hv you girls for company. Lights off at 8+ or 9+ in the wards. So boring. :p
 
Pumpkin *hugz* lotsa cheers gal! I'm sure u'll b in gd hands with dr Loh.

My experience at O&G was cranky having heard all things neg n the fact tat they almost wanted to push me into op for ectopic. Had an angel too n tat was the nurse who brought me to the dept scan. She didn't tell me facts of wats happening, her mere assuring tone of "don't worry, u hv done wat u could" makes a world of diff. Back at the doc after the scan, doc said she can't tell if tat was a sac. Perhaps a cyst! Cos there's nothing else, no fetus, no yolk. I had no expression at her anymore....

I can't think anymore, jus praying. A bfp tat didn't end well is truly a wacky roller coaster....

Thanks for everything today ladies, I really appreciate yr sharing n advice. =)
 
Tks Portia. I'm ok now. Was so panicky on fri nite and even wanted to drag my maid and toddler to KKH with me. Lucky my hubby stopped me. Lol. Sat was bad too with the continued red bleeding (they call it staining here - said this is not a lot). Only the flow at 24-hr clinic was more cos I really miscarry twin 1. On sun, I kinda calmed down and came to the point where 'if bb is meant to be, he/she will be with me'. If not developing well, nature will know best. Surprisingly and luckily, I had no cramps or stomach pain except bleeding/staining. Drs kept asking and pressing my tummy to see if I feel pain. Hope you'll strike next round k and hv a smooth pregnancy.
 
To the rest of the sisters here going through stimulation, 2ww or waiting for yr next scan to see the precious little heart beats, I wish you gals all the best too. After going through my first failed IVF, I hv come to understand how some things are not meant to be and not within our control; even when we have done everything we can. We can only pray and put our faith and trust in God. I am sure He has a plan for each of us. So, just hang in there, sisters!
 
pumpkin_pie said:
Tks hope2bb. Many things can still happen after BFP but if I nv try, will nv have a chance at succeeding. Have been resting and will continue to rest at home.

Lucky hv you girls for company. Lights off at 8+ or 9+ in the wards. So boring. :p
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Yes, once lights out quite boring. I stayed there last weekend to. My child was warded. Long story but we had very bad experience with KKH twice. That's why I went private for my IVF.
 
Portia3, hello. I didn't realize you were my cycle buddy besides Pumpkin_pie. You summarized it so well. Yes science can only do so much. I'm resting this month after BFN in Jan and hope to start FET next month. How about you?
 
Hi ladies,
Will have my FET maybe ard early March. Start take progynova & nervous now.
Need to get some advice what to do / not to do b4/after FET.
Thx ......
 
Babystarz, ya some nurses at 24-hr clinic are so sweet. Will come update on status like how many patients b4 me n dr went away and will be back etc. The dr I like was pretty straight-faced and fierce looking too. But I like her cos she efficiently cleaned up my bloody mess down there, was experienced enuff to let me catch a glimpse of the bb I lost (it was quite an amazing experience to see the translucent sac - it was so beautiful) and of course I saw positive results on screen. Hope you'll get better news tmr or at the least an answer.
 
i tell u why she didn't see u at the ward. U r on subsidied rate when u r warDed. If u are warded as a pte patient, she will come n see u. U r lucky she still offered her views to the ward dr.

A sister had serious complications at abt 6 mths pregnant n warded at kkh. Subsidied ward. She asked for dr loh a few times. Not even a call or visit fyi. N she is her long time patient.. that was the time dr loh was still in kkh. She lost her child. Dr loh nv even turn up once. My daughter was warded at NICU, i asked him to go see him. He went n came to ward late at night to tell me hia views. WHy? CoZ am pte patient.

U pay peanuts u get peanuts. That's life. U dun hv to make appt to see dr loh today. Just walk in today. He will see u regardless how biz he is. As long as u can wait. Why? Coz u paying pte rates to see him

In kkh, it works the same. So dun blame on dr S. If she makes exception for u, all patients can get themselves warded at subsidised rates n expect her to go see them. She where got the time. Her time is reserved for pte patients who pay more. That's life!
 
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I m a long time kkh patient. I followed dr loh to tmc n delivered there. My daughter was born in tmc, under tmc pd. But i brought her bk to kkh. I did a few procedures under kkh. SOme by dr loh, some by my ex o&g gynae. Kkh has the best support n drs. Most private drs r fr kkh.

But, my daughter n i are pte patients always. I dun like tmc at all.

Also, do u know tt pte hospitals cannot handle v premature bbs? Do u know that pte drs hv more incentives to overcharge than kkh?

So, dun blame on kkh or the kkh drs. subsidied patients will be treated differently fr pte patients, ie B1 and above ward.

If u r kkh pte patient, no money can ask social worker to help n downgrade. Will atill be attended to. In ptw hospitals, no money thEY will ask u to leave.
 
Hazel, tks for sharing KKH protocol. I should hv gone to Pte wards then. No visit is justified then. But I wanted to see her at our scheduled appt time where I'm paying private rates. Why cancel that?
 
Pumpkin_pie, I can understand your panick when u first discovered yr staining. I went berserk too when blood first flowed during my failed cycle. You are right in saying that nature knows best. But I suppose you will still feel the ache n pain of never knowing the little one you had lost. Much as we want to be level headed n sensible in dealing with our loss, there will always be a question in our heart on what could hv been. I dunno if this will make it a little easier for you; just think of the little one as a guardian angel who will watch over the remaining one that is with u. Rest well and get better. My thoughts are w you.
 
Hi, Hope2bb. I am rather new here. I only started posting during my 2ww of my first failed cycle. After the first cycle ended abruptly 2 weeks ago, I stopped posting. Needed the time to sort out my emotions n get back to work before planning my next step. I am seeing Dr S on this Friday. Only have 1 frosty and so I reckon I will go for another fresh when Dr S clears me for the next cycle. Are u with Dr S at KKH too?
 
U r warded. U can always go to clinic d in a wheel chair to see her if u wanted to

But she wun go see u at the ward. If u r on private rate, she will visit u daily.

Share w u something. A gf was dr S' patient. Referred by a family dr friend who knows her directly.

She was warded at abt 27 wks preg w twins under subsidied ward. Cannot stop labour. Her c section was not done by dr S. She can't get involved coz subsidied patient, hospital's procedure. But she was at her side thru out the c section. Watching while the junior dr did the op.

SHe is a dr w a good heart. Most kkh drs r coz they draw a fix pay. Though Senior drs get a tiny amt fr procedures they do. Let's why i said she offered her views to the ward dr. She bothered to see ur scan pic. That takes up her time n u r not paying her consultation charge too.

Mine tt friend who lost her child at 6 mths preg. Was super upset w dr loh back in kkh. She told me ward dr called him, he nv turn up, nc ask how was she n bb... she was w him 6 yrs n he delivered her no 1 under him. She nv have easy pregnancy n dr loh knows her history...

But i dun blame dr loh. He is too biz, pte patients like u demand his attention, how can he afford time for subsidied patient? Also, kkh has lots of rules to comply w. It is privatized but charges wise still cheaper than pte hospitals. It may appear to us pte r cheaper. Yes, they r for consultation charge. But dun run into complications, the cost is huge. My daughter cost us a bomb just one wk in nicu n she is 36 wks bb. The pd charged min 300 bucks just to visit her in nicu... thats just her consultation fees only ok. One day cost us 2~3k n i was asked to prepay the pd charges! I definitely will not be ripped off like this. Kkh nicu, for v premature bb, is 1k plus a day for pte patients. Cannot afford, do income testing n can downgrade. As long as we r a patient there, wun turn us away..

Take a look at dr loh's new charges at the cashier when u r there. He has increased his charges. For patients like us, maybe he didnt charge more, but for brand new patients fr tmc, is different.

I recently did a day procedure to remove a cyst on my back pte patient at sgh. Yes, not private hosptial. Under local anesthesia. Cost be 2 k plus. M happy w service n the dr, who is a plastic surgeon. Still seeing him coz need to manage the scarring. Same procedure cost 5k in pte hospital fyi
 
When i lost no 1, n had to deliver her dead though induce labour. 'A' class ward. Kkh sent a counsellor who has similar experience to see me. She followed me thru even after i was discharged. N i was not billed a cent for the service.

During other procedures i did, those where i was awake, the nurse saw me trembling. Will hold my hand, warm my hand n talk to me to calm me down.

They may look unfriendly. Esp kkivf centre nurses. Majority r nice folks. Just need to talk to them nicely. They know the pains of trying to hv a child. Today, i needed to rush off to work, but need the nurse to run me thru on ET procedure. I said i cant wait too long. That nurse let me jump q.

Fyi, i can be in the review dr room after the US for 10 mins or more. Talking to the dr abt my concerns n asking them qns. I make it a pt to know their names. Not just any review dr on duty. There r just those few. Dr veronquie, dr jessie, dr steven... even the sinographer, karen, i also talked to her.

They r all quite nice. Serious.
 
Ohhhh pumpkin pie
I got the same story last year (but only one embie) in my Home Town at 8 weeks after beautiful heart beat - after 2 days at hospital my sister took me out booked a private doc and i had D&C 8 days later in a private clinic i lost so much blood clots .. So sorry :( And on v day :(
Please Forget about this doc you Know we are so many cases And anyway dont stay in a place with bad memories
Take care
 
Hi jklim4642

It seems to me you are very well informed and knowledgeable regards to the hospital charges and I'm sure we ladies here appreciate your sharings but you sound a bit too cold in most of your comments.

Maybe you should also consider the feelings of pumpkin pie and not sound so harsh ?
Not sure I feel it wrongly...
She need more consolation from the sisters here.
 
Pumpkin at this juncture I think as long as no more bleed is good. Maybe earlier you passed out 1 twin then now the other is stabilising. Rest well to help your lil fighter hang on! At this time other than jabs yes nothing much doc can do.

I was bleeding in my last pregnancy too and after hospital discharge me I went to Dr loh and got an earful from him .. lol .. He thinks I should bed rest instead of running everywhere esp since kkh eventually gave in to my request for more jabs. Oh well ..

Me that time after pass out the tissue bleed heavily like menses .. I stained the A&E entrance floor and almost fainted .. lol .. luckily I was already there so easy access to wheelchair. Mine end up sad story .. was a miscarriage.
 
I know she feels sad. we all will who wun. But consoling words wun carry us far. Prepare for the worse n pick up the pieces fr there. N try again. If things turn up otherwise, good. But if not, move on. No words can console. I had a few miscarriages. All the consoling words do not make me feel better. I just wan to know what happened, and have all my qns answered.

Pumpkin has been around in this forum.. our no 1 are abt the same age. She knows by now i share what i know. Nv my intention to rub salt or to pour cold water.
 
Pumpkin pie, hope you are doing well and most importantly wed scan with dr loh will bring you some better news. I am with kkh too for iui and ivf. When I suffer chemical preg back then the nurse didn do much too. Didn even allow me to see my doc in clinic d as she say aptm full. Can only see 2wks later. Just have to come Back 2days for bt to show if hcg double. As 1st time preg I don't have much experience and I didn join this forum yet so didn get any advice from sisters here. Just waited two days for bt again. Form the day my iui bt due I was already bleeding like menses, told the nurse who did my bt but she just say so early pregnancy if really bleed also cannot be helped. So I thought maybe she is right after all she seen more cases than me. But after everything now I think back maybe if I have seen a PTE gynae and maybe the pte gynae would have given me some injection or support things might be different. I understand not all bleeding will end up in mc and I also understand sometimes doc really cannot do anything if embryo is not healthy to begin with. I just curious maybe just maybe things could have been diff.

Well I am still doing my fet with kkh but I make sure I have a PTE gynae in my record so that touchwood anything I can rush to him instead of waiting for kkh.
 
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Pumpkin's case defintely still hv hope. 6 wks today? Still can see yolk sac based on recent scan. The reason wny dr S said see her next wk coz heartbeat can be detected as late as 7 wks plus pregnant. At this junction, can only wait.

Juat ask for more support. Ask for the painful oil jab support on the thigh.. n up the oral support. Talk to the ward dr. They will give and rest!

See dr loh on wed he will say the same. Nothing much he can do other than to give more support. Hopefully, can see HB then.

My 3rd pregnancy, i requested dr loh to let him see him every 2 wks fr start of pregnancy. He actually told me there's nothing much he can do if things r not meant to be, other than up my support. He said but if i m happier to see him every 2 wks, he will. Those were the kkh days...
 

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