Divorce from a (now grown) child's point of view.

oldmanchris

New Member
I've been reading many of the threads here. Quite a few deal with infidelity and/or the potential end of a marriage. I've noted the fear and apprehension that many mums here have, when considering the topic of 'officially leaving'.

"I have kids and I'd like to keep the family together."

If it helps, I'd like to present two real-life scenarios that may ease the decision making process. The scenarios happen to be from my own life.


Scenario 1: I was the child of an domineering woman and a man who desperately wanted to be free. She refused to grant him a divorce. I believe her fear was that I would be traumatised by the divorce. They stayed in the same house and endured an almost eight-year cold war while I was growing up. He sought solace in other women's arms. She played the part of the betrayed wife but also had another man on the side for a bit, if I recall. They finally parted ways when I was 10.


Here's the truth: They took the time to explain WHY it was better that they not be together anymore. Of course, in private conversations with me, they hurled mud at each other. However, there were after-dinner family talk sessions where they were civil to each other. They explained that they didn't want to eventually kill each other by being forced to live together.


After the papers were stamped. orders finalised and they both lived separately, they took time to spoil me a little (with time and a few toys). They were polite to each other when they met up to hand me over: Mum had me on the weekdays and dad took me for weekends - I found that was a good arrangement for me.


I grew up in an age when divorce was not as common as it is now. I believe that in my primary 6 class of 37 students, I may have been the only child from a ‘broken home’. I was only teased about my parents’ divorce once. I had a reply handy.

“My parents don’t fight anymore. I’m sure yours do.”

By the way, I HATE the term ‘Broken Home’ – Often, a divorce provides a chance for both parties to HEAL, don’t you think?

Throughout my teen years, the ‘stigma’ of having divorced parents never once affected me. Now, over 3 decades later, my mother lives in Australia with her second husband (they married in 1987). My father remains a happy bachelor.

I chalk my ability to gracefully handle their divorce to the fact that they explained things very carefully to me – often, repeatedly.

“We were good friends before we married. We want to be good friends again.”

“We would give you anything and everything. But we also owe it to ourselves to find happiness on our own, just as you will one day grow up, spread your wings and do the same.”

“We hate the people we become when we live together. We can be a better mum and dad (and a better person) to you when we’re happier apart.”


My final take on Scenario 1 is this: It’s not necessarily the best thing to stay together for your kids. Your spouse and you are people with your own dreams and needs too. Do you honestly want to be 50 and then suddenly divorced and alone? If you need to make a fresh start, you may need to do it now.

Take the time to sit with your kids to explain. Agree with each other in front of them and give them time to think about things – some kids may need to be alone with their thoughts to arrive at the same conclusion. In the end, everything will work out. Kids are smarter and tougher than we give them credit for. They will survive, with both spouses’ support and understanding.


Scenario 2: I happen to be a secondary school teacher. I teach English and cover classes from secondary 1 to 5. The stereotype that ‘Many problem kids come from broken homes’ is held by many teachers. They’re only HALF right.
 

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It is true that many of my students, especially those with disciplinary issues, have divorced parents. However, it is also true that MOST of my students who have divorced parents DO NOT have disciplinary issues. Let me put it this way:

‘Many PROBLEM kids come from PROBLEM homes’.

First, problem homes occur when parents are not personally involved with their children’s discipline/moral guidance and daily activities. This means that mum or dad may be there at the dinner table, but have no interest in their child’s good/bad behaviour or school/social life. You’d be surprised how fifteen minutes of “Can we talk about your problems at school?” and “Can I give you my opinion on that?” at meal times works wonders. Also, keep schedules and routines – this may include curfews too. If you bother enforcing these things, it shows you CARE. This applies to single-parent families too. If you’re interested in what they do, the children know it; even the most bull-headed and incessantly defiant teenager. They will respect your effort and they will (eventually) respond.

Second, problem homes occur when there is little to no communication between ‘parents and parents’ and ‘parents and children’. I’ve had single-mothers and (one) single-father who accompanied their child down to Parent/Teacher meetings. In many cases, I didn’t have one disciplinary problem to highlight at all. I sat there as the brave mums and dad accompanied their kid while walking through their examination scores and academic strengths and AFIs. The ONE common denominator in all these cases was this:

The parents always included their child in the conversation.

They were strict when they needed to be and cheerful and encouraging when it was warranted. We talked respectfully to their child and formed opinions based on this interaction. I really had the feeling that it was the same way at their homes too – the children knew that their voices would be heard and were thus, more willing to share their feelings with their parents.

Don’t even get me started on the times I had to mediate between warring parents while their stone-faced children kept a habitual quietness. I so pitied the children who were already there for disciplinary issues, and had to endure the pain of a public witnessing of their parents tearing each other apart.

Talk to your kids and LISTEN to them. Let them feel that you want their input. Let them know about your issues too. Children (teens especially) are so famously egocentric – if it doesn’t involve them, they don’t want to know about it. Let your children know that both your lives are intertwined and seriously affect each other. Give it time and they will consider your opinions before doing something stupid like skipping classes and going fishing in school uniform (obviously me).


Divorce is a messy process. I know that many women may be much more fearful of it than men. Homemakers will wonder how they’re going to reignite careers. There may the feeling that you may never find anyone else who loves you again because you’re somehow ‘not good enough’ – the one person who you placed complete faith and trust in somehow found you lacking.

But you will move on. If you were tough enough to have kids and care for them, you’re tough and resourceful enough. Careers and finding love are somehow, more easily managed than children, if you stop to think about it. So, stop thinking so much. If you need to move on, do so.

If you’re planning to stay in your troubled marriage because of your children, I hope that whatever I’ve told you here has helped a little.

Chris
 
I married late - at 40 to be exact.

I always believed in marriage. My own views towards how to treat women, be a proper man/gentleman, be a good father and live right, were influenced by the people I met around me.

I watched my parents and learned from their mistakes. I suppose you could say that I learned what NOT to do from watching them. I'm sure you could do better as a parent - my own parents were never meant to be wives and husbands. My mother (and I DO love her greatly) is a terribly domineering woman and an impossible MIL. My father is easygoing enough, but chauvinistic as all hell. I am neither of those things. I learned from observing their mistakes and paying attention to their successes and failures in love as I grew alongside them. I don't think it's too much of a boast to say that I'm a better husband than my father ever was, and less controlling than my mother. Actually, my wife enjoys nights-out with her friends (even at the last minute) and staying over at her mum's place whenever she likes. I don't control. I don't like being controlled and I wouldn't control her.

Also, I grew up in a time when the media exploded (cable TV and the Internet) and I watched and learned. Of course, I picked up some stupidity from the moving images, but time and 'making my own mistakes' sorted that out. It took me a lot of time. I made my own share of ASSH*LE errors and was treated like dirt by some women that I thought truly loved me. I learned.

I believe in marriage. I always will. It's not the same as believing in that piece of paper that the ROM gives you - I believe that you WILL find people out there and they WILL stay with you and love you as long as they live... as long as you keep trying.

There's this eternally STUPID romanticism that we've been conditioned to accept by fairy tales and well-meaning friends: "There's a perfect someone out there for you."

This is wrong.

In truth, there are 1000s of perfect someones out there for you. You just have to work (and work HARD) to be grow and keep trying - to be that perfect someone for them. Marriage is a journey. Sometimes, it's a bloody UPHILL climb. As long as you're mature enough, you know that you have to keep going on.

I've been married for almost 5 years now and she's a good woman. She's spoilt and self-centred sometimes, but I'm also idiotic and selfish sometimes too. We argue over the smallest goddamned things - but we always take turns making up (even when we THINK we're each right). I know that if the whole world is against me, she will stand by my side. And I'd do the same for her. The small things may pop up to anger us at times, but they're... well.... SMALL things.

I married well. I married late, but I am pretty confident that when I'm 112 years old and sitting on a deckchair on a beach somewhere, she will be holding my hand.
 
I really do agree w u tt marriage takes a lot of effort on both parties to make it work. Especially so for long time marriages, the sparks mayb lost and spouse may find it unnecessary to rekindle that flame and romance the other. What makes the situation trickier is tt, while trying to rekindle the flame to no avail, the affected party seeks romance and passion in another. What is your take on this?
 
It takes quite a fair bit of courage to step out especially if kids are involved.
Most women would prefer to take the humble pie enduring their husbands infidelity and abuses just to keep the family complete.

Many suffered, without love and often feigned a happy front. Little did they know that once their chance to pursue their happiness is over,..
their lives may be over.

If the kids are grown-up, most would prefer their mum to be a happy person than to suffer for them for their whole life.
 
What makes the situation trickier is tt, while trying to rekindle the flame to no avail, the affected party seeks romance and passion in another. What is your take on this?

I think that if I did that to my wife, she would most probably drop me like a sack of rocks. I wouldn't blame her either.

I was once stuck in a relationship for 5 years (we were going out for 5 years with an eye on getting married). I KNEW that from the end of the second year, we were not going to work out. Our characters were just too different. I just refused to give in. I tried and tried - and to my ex-GF's credit, she did too. I kept telling myself that "Perhaps if I try harder..."

In hindsight, I should have ended it in the third year. I think the trick is to realise that forcing yourself to stay with someone (and forcing them to stay with you), is cheating BOTH of yourselves. That time could have been better spent apart and LIVING, rather than dragging yourselves through a miserable dying-dog of a relationship.

You should know your own worth and value yourself.

If your husband doesn't value you the same way you value him, then someone ELSE can and will give you the respect and love you deserve.

Like I said before: "There isn't just one so-called 'soul mate' for you out there. There are BILLIONS of people on our planet. My guess is there are THOUSANDS of 'soul mates' for you. But you need to treasure yourself and have some self-respect. After all, if YOU don't think you're worth it, why should anyone else?"
 
Well said. Quoted: "But you need to treasure yourself and have some self-respect. After all, if YOU don't think you're worth it, why should anyone else?" " &
That time could have been better spent apart and LIVING, rather than dragging yourselves through a miserable dying-dog of a relationship. "


What about if there are kids involved? The issue of always trying to give them a complete family?

What your take on that oldmanchris?
 
To think of it, sometimes ignorance is bliss, really.

I've bn married to my hubby whom we got together in my late teens and we've kids. Like many married couples, we hv our disagreements and quarrels pertaining to issues such as in-laws, upbringing of kids. As he is much older than I m, our relationship has become increasingly like father-daughter.

Due to some upsetting matters, i confided in a friend whom I eventually become intimate w. Though I realise my hubby isn't the romantic n gentle sort, I can't help but compare him w my friend. Desperately wanting to save my feelings for my relationship, I urge hubby to romance me, to the extent of stating my needs and desires, most of which fall on deaf ears. He dismisses my requests condescendingly as being selfish to my own needs and not focusing on the family and kids and goes on to say that he isn't the romantic sort but can make up for the shortfall by providing and taking care of me. But the last thing I need, is another father :( , isn't it?

Sometimes, I feel like casting my caution and responsibilities to the wind, n follow where my heart calls, in pursuit of the excitement n passion tt is so lacking in my marriage. This act, or the thought on its own, is downright selfish, isn't it?

My close friends hv asked me to cherish my responsible pro-family hubby and stop my 'friendship' w tt friend. I'd wanted to badly, try so hard to change hubby but to no avail, to let go of this illicit 'friendship'..... I find myself harder than ever to do so, as my friend provides the romance, gentleness and attention tt r sorely lacking in my marriage. Any advice for me?
 
As a teacher, I've seen too many dysfunctional 'complete' families. The concept of a 'complete' family is over-rated and I think it's just a great way invented by religion and the government to control people.

People seem to think that just because mum and dad stay under the same roof, it means that the kids get the best care and love.

Nonsense. Having two parents makes things easier - but it doesn't guarantee a good home. Honestly, I think watching my mum throw furniture at my father and my father (in turn) curse and swear at her probably damaged me more than their divorce did.

If you and your (ex)husband CARE for your kids, you'll both be able to provide them a decent upbringing. Heck, even if you ALONE care for them enough (after the divorce), it will be enough. Expect a period of pain, ungratefulness and lot of rebellion and yelling though. Teenagers can be so self-centred.

;)
 
To think of it, sometimes ignorance is bliss, really.

I've bn married to my hubby whom we got together in my late teens and we've kids. Like many married couples, we hv our disagreements and quarrels pertaining to issues such as in-laws, upbringing of kids. As he is much older than I m, our relationship has become increasingly like father-daughter.

Due to some upsetting matters, i confided in a friend whom I eventually become intimate w. Though I realise my hubby isn't the romantic n gentle sort, I can't help but compare him w my friend. Desperately wanting to save my feelings for my relationship, I urge hubby to romance me, to the extent of stating my needs and desires, most of which fall on deaf ears. He dismisses my requests condescendingly as being selfish to my own needs and not focusing on the family and kids and goes on to say that he isn't the romantic sort but can make up for the shortfall by providing and taking care of me. But the last thing I need, is another father :( , isn't it?

Sometimes, I feel like casting my caution and responsibilities to the wind, n follow where my heart calls, in pursuit of the excitement n passion tt is so lacking in my marriage. This act, or the thought on its own, is downright selfish, isn't it?

My close friends hv asked me to cherish my responsible pro-family hubby and stop my 'friendship' w tt friend. I'd wanted to badly, try so hard to change hubby but to no avail, to let go of this illicit 'friendship'..... I find myself harder than ever to do so, as my friend provides the romance, gentleness and attention tt r sorely lacking in my marriage. Any advice for me?

Goosey, my students always say that "That teacher can read minds."

So, I'm going to read your mind and tell you that you've had dreams about your husband cheating on you, am I right? How did it feel?
 
What's your occupation Goose?

Are you looking for a new husband? If yes,
Is your that "friend" ready to marry you and if the custody of the kids goes to you.
Is he going to shoulder ?

IF everything is Yes, then nothing to say.
 
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Panoramic: The thought of getting a new hubby does cross my mind several times. I reckon, I'm facing a mid-life crisis on top of my frustrations n unhappiness w hubby, all add up. Sometimes, I feel, heck,I've wasted half my life w this man who merely look upon me as a mother to our kids. I wish, for my hubby, to re-romance me and pay attention to me. I guess, it's hard work for him, for his work takes a toll on him and my demanding like this stress him to no end. Hence, I'm still keeping my 'friendship', though it's terribly wrong of me to do so.
 
It always take 2 hands to clap... we want hubby to re-romance us... get rid of those ah-ma bras, open our mouths wider... men are mostly visual creatures... teach you girls a new trick...

say his friend is coming over to pick some items up, wont linger around for long... i tell you, go braless, open the door and welcome his friend in... i bet you by the time the friend departs, your hubby will grab you for some rough sex.. high chance
 
Anyw, panoramic, nothing is stable these days. Relationships, marriages, many are built on weak foundation or become weakened w age n bitterness. Let alone a friendship tt has barked on a wrong start and one tt is relatively new.

If I can cast away my emotions entirely, I'd b savoring the moments and living my life to the fullest, in a way I can possibly fashion. Do I regret my current life, u may ask? Yes, I do, to some extent.
 
Shearer: That move will hv ended me in a prison camp, imposed by hubby v likely. Hubby is like a disciplinarian - he checks on my behaviour, the clothes I wear and my conversations w people. He's v controlling n I doubt I can get anywhere near wat u suggest!!! Just to illustrate my point, I recently bought a few figure hugging clothes from Zara tt accentuate my curves and was repeatedly told off v sternly about my dressing infront of certain groups of people, the image I portray to them and the role model I present to my daughter.
 
oh mine, sorry gal... my wrong... hmmm... re-romance eh... like that a bit tough le.... BUT, dun ever give up.... so, he controls you... but, since the start of your r/ship or starting from marriage?
 
Shearer: He's bn the controlling type since the start of our relationship. I've bn made to feel like a caged bird, most times, to alw do my duties dutifully. For the past decade, I've bn gg on like tt, losing myself.
 
Goose: Yeah, that's a hell of life being a caged bird. I can empathize on your predicament for the fulfilment of freedom and the needs of your life. Matter of facts, what logic determines that married women should always be the tame parties and be the suffered ones. As the thread starter had started, the considerations of the child, will it be always bad for the kids if both parties look for their happiness since there is no love and only quarrels and abuses in the marriage?

I have come before a friend who is a FTHW and the husband provide the finances. Throughout these years, suspicions of marks from lovers in his body and little things of pass-time affairs surfaced but she decided to be an ostrich wearing sunglasses. I would also said that the husband is a very cunning person who knows how to hide all these illicit liaisons. Perhaps it is due to the marriage vows or the kids that she hang on. However, literally, I can see the pain and sufferings she is going. My perspective is the husband is a selfish person, who just wanted to keep her as a mother for the kids and a wife who sometimes to satisfy his needs though he been enjoying himself on both ways.

Nevertheless, who has allowed all such?

Again, unless she has the courage to walk out and the IMPORTANT question falls back again to if the illicit friendship gonna turns into a committed meaningful marriage? If the person is not serious of the commitments then what happiness does it have for the future too? MOST of the time, people will never be able to find the correct partner in just one marriage. That's where the law comes in to dissolve such entanglements. Those were the time, when we were young, ignorance and soft-hearted and allow some domineering characters to cage us.. Does a fail marriage determines that either or both parties have to wallow in sadness? Again the determine factor depends on the person's choice on how he/she chooses to live for the later half of life and the person he/she meets for his/her later life. I am not supportive of 3rd party affairs.
 
I agree... like what I have always believe in... why do we need a guy for? like for his tongue and cock, thats all... we can earn $$, we can be happy. we can go to Boracay on our own...
 
Panoramic: Infidelity aside, most pple will want to hold onto their marriages, regardless of how their spouses treat them, due to providing kids a complete home and the risk of starting a life anew. There's alw this question tt gnaws at the back of my mind: is it worthwhile to jump the boat? What if the new boat, w time and bitterness of life, ended up like the first boat? I applaud those who r brave to take the plunge for one may nv know if the new life ahead will put those affected in a worse-off situation.
 
Shearer: Money aside, I feel communication, chemistry and sensitivity toward each other r paramount to building a strong marriage. Sex is a good way to cement all tt strong feelings for each other. Without tt, sex can become routine and detached.
 
Goose:


"Complete" - with tons of argumentation and disagreements? With the finances he holds, he may be mentally abusive towards her (or you) and doesn't treat her right.
That's the stress, on the plate. Filled with upset and unhappiness, she gets tired and doesn't want a fight that's all.

With the worry from the outcome and hurt from the relationship, the wounds got deeper. Finally she may not be able to move at all. Totally a prisoner! She may still love the man, but ultimately, she will be tired and doing what's best for her. Most of the time, women in this predicament, thought of finding back the happiness, by fixing it back, but stubbornness can't cure especially if he himself cannot get back on track if time can be fast forward (especially those whom have strayed).

Some women, are often blinded and not able to "open" their eyes to see clearly. But remember everyone has their freewill and options to choose from. One may not leave, and insist on to being with the person yet internally, she felt she deserves better every night. But If she looks deeply down inside, she'll know the hidden truth, she knows deep down inside that once what her and her husband had is long gone. Just like my friend, rather than finding out the answers, especially with the sharp instincts she has and the little evidences floating..she decided to play blind and yet she can still sleep with him. Its just a matter of time and I foresee she will finally has to admit it. The relevance is that the husband has been a great influence on her and has total control of her. Refusing to see the facts yet envious of her friends who see's they have a better marriage than her. She wants better deeply down inside yet stubborn.

With more delay in time, she can't trust other men or anyone. Now $$$ is just one of the major concerns to help her financially. He does too, but he wants a new woman in his life, that's why he's saving money on the other side. It just a matter of time he find someone and move on. She will, ultimately has to accept it and move on. Call it destined. The love he once has it for her but the love has faded and the happiness isn't their anymore, the memories are fading.

Sometimes, facts are facts. Delaying further will just cause the chance or opportunity to fade away. As you mentioned, what if the other boat is also another bitter hole like the first, but at least there is a chance rather than staying on the original bitter hole. (I clarify that the new one is serious, committed and responsible and the husband is a Casanova in this case and looking for the "someone" too).

We have to be truthful with ourselves.

Blessings.
 
gooseberry, Im in same situation as u. My hubby doesn't spend time w me and we r growing distant. Another friend came along, showing care and love to me. I'm in a deep dilemma. Only thing is that my friend is a lesbian, poor, can't support me and the kids (5 & 3 yrs old) financially and is a foreigner. My 'bf' asked me to separate my husband legally and we stay outside tog. I actually have rented a room for ourselves but I keep holding back bcz we only get 1 kid, the kid is attending childcare, my parents are old, they need me. If i move out, I can't imagine the consequences. Should I give up on this secret affair?
 
Chickygal: Tt's the problem w affairs or illicit 'frenships' like these. Whilst we will like to romanticize the 'relationships' we r having nw, reality is such intense feelings mayb ephemeral. Either party may not b content or grow bored to stay at this initial stage of 'relationship' (when passion is at its peak) for a considerable period of time. I wonder, if it is even possible for such a stage to stay as such for a long time.

I'm unsure of yr position, if yr hubby has done something tt hurts u badly such as acts of infidelity. If it had bn infidelity, it makes matters much clearer as to how to proceed, tt's my opinion. Otherwise, we r guilty of pursuing our own selfish happiness without regards to our current family.
 
I suspect, we must draw a line between the essentials and the luxuries in life...

for me, kids and parents, career, bank account, retirement nest are the essentials...
sex, hubby, BFFs, they are the luxury types... if have, i go temple pray and give thanks... if dun have, i go Watsons and buy the new vibrator... you dig?

seriously, do we really need a bastard guy in our life? look around you, some scholars, some high-fliers, they come from single-parent families! So? Whats the big deal...

hubby and BFFs are the ones who will comment, wow, what saggy boobs you have...
kids and parents wont...

You can comfortably wear ah-ma bras around your kids and parents, not a single word....
you try wearing in front of your hubby, wearing ah-ma bras to your girls gathering... you will be the butt of all jokes..
 

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