(2012) Ivf/icsi Mommies Support Group
- Thread starter mikela
- Start date
usagi_2011
Member
Congrats, bbjourney.
heartbeats
New Member
Babyjourney, you also so sudden! Congrats! Time to join me pump and moo together!
Congrat to heartbeat and bbjourney..
time flies for u gals too.. Welcome to motherhood.. and yes, i cry too when hear my bbies cry.. Doc Loh still asks me am i in pain or too happy and cry.. Of course is due to happiness.. suddenly quite miss doc Loh as so long no see him.. Think will arrange for papsmear with him very soon.. Really miss those days doing scanning in his clinic..
time flies for u gals too.. Welcome to motherhood.. and yes, i cry too when hear my bbies cry.. Doc Loh still asks me am i in pain or too happy and cry.. Of course is due to happiness.. suddenly quite miss doc Loh as so long no see him.. Think will arrange for papsmear with him very soon.. Really miss those days doing scanning in his clinic..heartbeats
New Member
Thanks Joanne, now then the journey really just begun! I am tearing my hair out over milk supply and pumping and feeding! Gosh~
bbjourney
Active Member
Thank you sisters for your well wishes. Baby is still in nicu. I am abit off balance cos he is so near yet so far as i can only get down e bed tomorrow.
Heartbeats, i borrow e hospital pump just now to try to pump but nothing come out. A bit disheartened but nurse said my breast still soft thats why nothing. Will try again tomorrow.
Heartbeats, i borrow e hospital pump just now to try to pump but nothing come out. A bit disheartened but nurse said my breast still soft thats why nothing. Will try again tomorrow.
Heartbeats and Bbjourney, big congrats to you both
Wow, I've not read the forum for couple of days and soooo many good news...feels like Christmas already
Heartbeats you get engorgement so early, looks like will have good moo moo supply, keep up the good work!!
Bbjourney, I'm sure your prince will be fine, so very very close to 37 weeks, do keep us posted
Heartbeats you get engorgement so early, looks like will have good moo moo supply, keep up the good work!!
Bbjourney, I'm sure your prince will be fine, so very very close to 37 weeks, do keep us posted
For me, the Medela tubing does get some tiny water droplets inside but all dried up within a day. So far, no moldy yet, *touchwood* I sterilise the spare parts everytime, as I feel that the bm first point of contact is the spare parts, so if they are contaminated, despite how clean the bottles or storage containers are, it's really pointless. I was also told that Avant bp needs to replace the spare parts too like the Medela.
Joanne, thanks, I'll get the baby balsam soon. Heather has no more cough and sneezing but still hv some phlegm...haizz so long tail. Can't do vaccination with phlehm right?
btw PIS also can't empty your breasts? lol...this bp thing is such headache. I was able to squeeze additional 100ml
cos I think the fenugreek suddenly increased my supply last week despite me taking 2 a day all along. I've since stopped taking and bm back to normal. Really can't take hand expressing, too painful, after that I'll feel pins and needles in the breasts the entire time.
Did you end up feeding your darlings with your friends bm? How are they liking it?
Joanne, thanks, I'll get the baby balsam soon. Heather has no more cough and sneezing but still hv some phlegm...haizz so long tail. Can't do vaccination with phlehm right?
btw PIS also can't empty your breasts? lol...this bp thing is such headache. I was able to squeeze additional 100ml
cos I think the fenugreek suddenly increased my supply last week despite me taking 2 a day all along. I've since stopped taking and bm back to normal. Really can't take hand expressing, too painful, after that I'll feel pins and needles in the breasts the entire time.
Did you end up feeding your darlings with your friends bm? How are they liking it?
Hi Hopeful, thanks. I'm using the Osim air humidifier too, but dunno why it didn't help much
I've since bought an air purifier which brings the humidity of the room up to 65% when air con is turned on, baby sleeps better now, maybe also the air gets cleaned up same time too. Hope bb nasal path will widen soon and less blocked nose or breathing issues in air con...
Bbjourney, can understand how you are feeling coz both your baby and you have been always together for the past 36w 5d. I am sure very soon your boy will graduate from NICU and be in your arms.
Can borrow hospital pump from TMC? Throughout the whole stay? If yes, then no need to bring own pump there yah? Btw, I thought that to extract colostrum, have to use hand express? Or you have already done that?
Coolcool, Coolangel: From our EDD or c-sec dates, 3 of us are the next ones! How's preparation on your side? I have finally completed all the washings for baby yesterday. Going to wash my newly bought nursing wears and get my hospital bag 70-80% packed today.
Can borrow hospital pump from TMC? Throughout the whole stay? If yes, then no need to bring own pump there yah? Btw, I thought that to extract colostrum, have to use hand express? Or you have already done that?
Coolcool, Coolangel: From our EDD or c-sec dates, 3 of us are the next ones! How's preparation on your side? I have finally completed all the washings for baby yesterday. Going to wash my newly bought nursing wears and get my hospital bag 70-80% packed today.
heartbeats
New Member
Thanks Tromso but my supply not much leh only 30-40 ml per breast each pump but will still leak all over after pump, dont know is it i dont pump properly.
Babyjourney, me too! Cant feel the kicks anymore i feel alittle depressed at times, haha~ Dont worry, your boy can go home with you. Dr Loh told me TMC less strict as long as bb ok can go home, not like KKH alot of criteria to meet then can release.
Angel, ya can borrow hospital pump. KKH supplied mine too. So no need bring your own in case lost etc~ Wow, now i am excited for you, Coolcool and Coolangel, the immediate 3 to pop next!
Babyjourney, me too! Cant feel the kicks anymore i feel alittle depressed at times, haha~ Dont worry, your boy can go home with you. Dr Loh told me TMC less strict as long as bb ok can go home, not like KKH alot of criteria to meet then can release.
Angel, ya can borrow hospital pump. KKH supplied mine too. So no need bring your own in case lost etc~ Wow, now i am excited for you, Coolcool and Coolangel, the immediate 3 to pop next!
heartbeats
New Member
Tromso, can share which air purifier you bought? I also trying to get one. TIA!
Bbjourney, have to pay means rent leh.. if have to rent for say 3 days, it's $105 wor..then might as well bring own pump yah.
Heartbeats, I am sure your bf supply will increase in no time. Are you on any supplements?
Coolangel, I c..I always thought you are after me in the D queue. So Hope and Biggly are pretty soon too!
I think u have to start preparing already depending on what needs to be done. Actually I started quite early as have to clear storage space mainly in the baby room, my wardrobe, store room, kitchen and fridge which was like a massive spring cleaning job. Then all the washings, sunning and folding of baby clothes, towels, bedding sets and organize them into the baby wardrobe. Still have to assemble the other baby essentials (for cleaning, bathing etc) properly, create baby station in the kitchen (for sterilizer, separate washing/drying rack for bottles etc). My hubby & i also tidied up the study room and washed the curtains. Then I have to buy and wash my own nursing bras & clothes, and prepare the hospital bag. Finally, have to buy all that are needed for confinement like herbs for eating and bathing, confinement shampoo, mother's milk tea, maternity pads, disposable undies etc. Oh, and not to forget to prepare the bed and toiletries for the confinement lady.
Heartbeats, I am sure your bf supply will increase in no time. Are you on any supplements?
Coolangel, I c..I always thought you are after me in the D queue. So Hope and Biggly are pretty soon too!
I think u have to start preparing already depending on what needs to be done. Actually I started quite early as have to clear storage space mainly in the baby room, my wardrobe, store room, kitchen and fridge which was like a massive spring cleaning job. Then all the washings, sunning and folding of baby clothes, towels, bedding sets and organize them into the baby wardrobe. Still have to assemble the other baby essentials (for cleaning, bathing etc) properly, create baby station in the kitchen (for sterilizer, separate washing/drying rack for bottles etc). My hubby & i also tidied up the study room and washed the curtains. Then I have to buy and wash my own nursing bras & clothes, and prepare the hospital bag. Finally, have to buy all that are needed for confinement like herbs for eating and bathing, confinement shampoo, mother's milk tea, maternity pads, disposable undies etc. Oh, and not to forget to prepare the bed and toiletries for the confinement lady.
Heartbeats, I'm worse off than you, started with only 30-40ml combined per pump, then after a week plus, 70ml combined per pump. Now I'm 200-300ml combined per pump, with the help of fenugreek. I'm sure you'll reach there too
The leakage...maybe you can try hand express into the funnel after the pump to get more bm. I was told by LC that the pump pulls the bm fr the areola area only but in fact there's lots more bm on the furtherest end of the breasts (the base), maybe these are the bm that's flowing out after you pump. So can massage the base more to encourage bm to flow down to the areola. Hope I'm making sense.
I bought the Sharp Plusmacluster A40e model, air purifier plus humidifier functions. The stores here generally recommend 2 brands, Sharp and Novita. Seeing that the Japan bullet train also uses Sharp Plusmacluster technology, I was won over, haaa...lazy to research. If you end up settling for Sharp, get the A40e and above range cos the cheaper models need to change filters more often, so end up paying the same but for fewer functions
If you like more info, can pm me too
The leakage...maybe you can try hand express into the funnel after the pump to get more bm. I was told by LC that the pump pulls the bm fr the areola area only but in fact there's lots more bm on the furtherest end of the breasts (the base), maybe these are the bm that's flowing out after you pump. So can massage the base more to encourage bm to flow down to the areola. Hope I'm making sense.
I bought the Sharp Plusmacluster A40e model, air purifier plus humidifier functions. The stores here generally recommend 2 brands, Sharp and Novita. Seeing that the Japan bullet train also uses Sharp Plusmacluster technology, I was won over, haaa...lazy to research. If you end up settling for Sharp, get the A40e and above range cos the cheaper models need to change filters more often, so end up paying the same but for fewer functions
Heartbeats, one more thing. Just thinking about your leaking situation...are you wearing your bras 'high' enough? Should be snug fit, not loose and breasts hanging low-ish. Try not to let your breasts sag down (I know it's more comfy that way heee...) otherwise all the bm around the breasts will travel downwards and may cause more leaks plus can cause a build up of bm at breasts area under the nipples, like a lump, hard to clear. This is another thing taught to me by LC....
Bbjourney, how's your baby? Did dr indicate how much longer need to stay in nicu? Have faith ok, you've come so far now, most importantly he's out safely now and you've done a great job.
Juvi, I bought mine at Best Denki, having a sale now. Which model you aiming? btw hor...the air here kinda smelly leh...yesterday I turned on the purifier, the clean indicator turned red
Juvi, I bought mine at Best Denki, having a sale now. Which model you aiming? btw hor...the air here kinda smelly leh...yesterday I turned on the purifier, the clean indicator turned red
Seriously, Punggol air quality is not very good..... Ever since I moved here 5 years ago, my sinus became worse, developed adult asthma. Last time still hv all the vegetation at e Punggol end to block some of e bad air fr Pasir Gudang JB, now w all the developments n clearing of the vegetation....jialat, on top of tt, construction dusts n haze! Sigh.......
bbjourney
Active Member
Angel n Tromso, i manage to get down e bed n walk. So can go see my baby boy 2 times today. Such a cutie but seeing him in nicu gives me heartache n cry.
Tromso, pd say maybe another 2 days but when i ask nurse, she told me total may need 5-7days. Hv talked to my boy, tells him how much we love him n encourage him to get well soon.
Tromso, pd say maybe another 2 days but when i ask nurse, she told me total may need 5-7days. Hv talked to my boy, tells him how much we love him n encourage him to get well soon.
jklim4642
Well-Known Member
Sterilising tablets need 3 Litres of water ok. U need a small pail to hold 3 Litres of water. Any amt less than that, will not e good for bb. U can check out pigeon one sold at bb department in Robinson or taka. Is written there how much water it needs. Hot boiling water is good enough to sterilise.
heartbeats
New Member
Babyjourney, not yet though they keep telling me soon soon~ KKH has a long list of criterias esp for premmies, must pass certain weeks and weight gain above 2kg. Mine still fluctuating around 2kg so no confirmed news yet and also monitoring for jaundice which was also fluctuating but now seems to be under control, phew~ Also did the metabolism and hearing tests. Give them time to be discharged home, if PD say 5-7 days then so be it as they actually receive the best care round the clock in hospital. You can also rest more now to charge up for when your boy comes home. I also cried non stop when i first see bb, you gotta be strong ok? They need us most. I tell myself channel the heartaches into pumping milk! First few days not much milk but can get colostrum, remember to ask for syringes to scoop up for your boy, very precious yet beneficial for him. I dont know KKH charge or not as havent see bill but i thought i heard they say 'borrow'.
Angel, ya on fenugreek and domiperion. I think its my pumping, today go read instructions properly and pump again, now can slightly more. Also trying to increase the frequency to trick the body to thinking need supply more.
Tromso, thanks for the sharing esp about the bra position, i didnt think of that! It makes sense! Now i am wearing Medela breast shields and imagine BM actually pooled inside like a reservoir, i gotta stuff tissue in to absorb the milk.
Angel, ya on fenugreek and domiperion. I think its my pumping, today go read instructions properly and pump again, now can slightly more. Also trying to increase the frequency to trick the body to thinking need supply more.
Tromso, thanks for the sharing esp about the bra position, i didnt think of that! It makes sense! Now i am wearing Medela breast shields and imagine BM actually pooled inside like a reservoir, i gotta stuff tissue in to absorb the milk.
Hazel, thanks for the info. Looks like either i bring my own steam sterilizer or bring a pot and electric kettle..and not forgetting pigeon liquid cleanser..wah more logistic lor..but no choice I just can't trust the nurse.
Bbjourney, be strong yah. Actually if it's me in your shoes, I think I will also feel heartache & cry. But all these will be over soon, so look forward to the day that he can be discharged from NICU and go home with you.
Heartbeats, glad to know that your supply is increasing. Got 2 mouths to feed so jia you!
Bbjourney, be strong yah. Actually if it's me in your shoes, I think I will also feel heartache & cry. But all these will be over soon, so look forward to the day that he can be discharged from NICU and go home with you.
Heartbeats, glad to know that your supply is increasing. Got 2 mouths to feed so jia you!
Huh.....Hmmm bring so many things to hospital? I brought my pump but din even use it as my milk came own day after I discharged. Intending to sterilize yr pump there? I rem I only latch while there and don't even need to pump. Breast soft soft there. I brought there and brought back. My milk came on 5-6th day by then I'm home can sterilize and pump.
Heartbeats : Don't worry abt the amount - its like that in the beginning. Don't stress yourself.
Heartbeats : Don't worry abt the amount - its like that in the beginning. Don't stress yourself.
Heartbeats, can look at photos of your babies too, supposedly helps trigger bm too
Any doubts, don't hesitate calling up the tmc breastfeeding helpline - 24 hrs. I did a couple of times, sometimes helpful sometimes not but a little assurance can go a long way
Any names yet?
Juvi, I heard Msia has agreed a few oil refineries to be located oppo punggol, on msia side. My dad says the air will be worse then
These companies been trying to do their 'dirty' work in Taiwan but got rejected time and again, fearful of air pollution. Then now our dear neighbour accepted them, somemore doing business just nxt door, thanks leh
Bbjourney, you rest well ok and be ready for your pronce's home coming
Any name yet?
Juvi, I heard Msia has agreed a few oil refineries to be located oppo punggol, on msia side. My dad says the air will be worse then
Bbjourney, you rest well ok and be ready for your pronce's home coming
Hi tromso
Nope.. I no feed them my friend bm as i am still trying my best to give them my bm..
Suppose to go for injection only after fully recover but if slight shd still be ok.. I bring my daughter go for the injection despite she still has slight flu since we already wait for 2 wks as my son oreadi jab 2 wks ago.. So dun want to delay further..pd oso say is ok..
Congrat to bb journey.. ur bb will be out of nicu soon.. In mean time, take care of urself now.. U discharge?
Nope.. I no feed them my friend bm as i am still trying my best to give them my bm..
Suppose to go for injection only after fully recover but if slight shd still be ok.. I bring my daughter go for the injection despite she still has slight flu since we already wait for 2 wks as my son oreadi jab 2 wks ago.. So dun want to delay further..pd oso say is ok..
Congrat to bb journey..
ur bb will be out of nicu soon.. In mean time, take care of urself now.. U discharge?Thanks Joanne, yes I've also delayed for 2 weeks already. Will go for the jab nxt week, nurse said very slight phlegm and blocked nose is fine. Heather seems to be ok now luckily.
How come you've not done your pap smear? I thought your review with dr Loh was quite some time back...
I was just wondering if you feed your babies with other mummy's bm, if they will reject cos diff taste heh...I'm mixing Heather's feeds with frozen bm now, she seems to have some preferences at times...
Are you going back to work soon? Have you settled your new maid and other baby arrangements?
Angel, what I did was, I used the hot water that tmc provides to wash my hands and do general clean ups. There will be slightly cooled boiled water in a pouring flask And hot water in the thermal flask. I'll cool both and request for them again once almost used up. Can also self boil using the kettle provided
How come you've not done your pap smear? I thought your review with dr Loh was quite some time back...
I was just wondering if you feed your babies with other mummy's bm, if they will reject cos diff taste heh...I'm mixing Heather's feeds with frozen bm now, she seems to have some preferences at times...
Are you going back to work soon? Have you settled your new maid and other baby arrangements?
Angel, what I did was, I used the hot water that tmc provides to wash my hands and do general clean ups. There will be slightly cooled boiled water in a pouring flask And hot water in the thermal flask. I'll cool both and request for them again once almost used up. Can also self boil using the kettle provided
miracle_happens
Member
Hi Tromso, my son has already taken the 1st dosage of rotavirus vaccine a mth ago. It is actually taken orally. He did not hve any diarrhea or fever. The 2nd dosage will be on this fri.
jklim4642
Well-Known Member
Angelxuan, u can bring a stainless steel deep bowl also. I bring that along when I travel with belle. Got to sterilise her bottles n stuff at least once a day. She eats semi solid food these days. Her bowls n spoon I dun sterilise.
I use plastic basin too. No concerns.
I use plastic basin too. No concerns.
jklim4642
Well-Known Member
Tromso, baby will be ok. Even if they hv fever or diahorea, is ther reaction to fighting to virus after the jabs. Belle takes a lot of vacine each time. Some are standard ones some like rotavirus and Penuoncial parents can choose when to give. But I give her early. After 6 mths jabs no more until 12 mths old. That will be MMR, mumps, measles n rubella. Pd asked me when I wan to give her chicken pox jab, she said 12 mths old earliest. So I said give at 12 mths then together with MMR.
Vacination fever if bb gets it, is v mild. I gave Belle panadol once after the jab. I wan to give her early since she is with us everywhere we go. Even on trips. So I wan to hv immunity to these as early as possible. FYI, since 2 mths old she got bronchitis n was warded, she has nv been sick again. Even when hub n I get flu, we dun separate her and us. Can't, she sticks to me like glue. Sees me only will stretch out her arms n ask me carry. Now she will crawl everywhere I walk n cry ma ma. Hub she also dun wan n he can't soothe her. After I carry her she will hug me tightly m koala to me. How to separate her even when I m sick? No way, I just wear a mask.
Vacination fever if bb gets it, is v mild. I gave Belle panadol once after the jab. I wan to give her early since she is with us everywhere we go. Even on trips. So I wan to hv immunity to these as early as possible. FYI, since 2 mths old she got bronchitis n was warded, she has nv been sick again. Even when hub n I get flu, we dun separate her and us. Can't, she sticks to me like glue. Sees me only will stretch out her arms n ask me carry. Now she will crawl everywhere I walk n cry ma ma. Hub she also dun wan n he can't soothe her. After I carry her she will hug me tightly m koala to me. How to separate her even when I m sick? No way, I just wear a mask.
Thanks for the vaccinations advice ladies. I got a bit worried when more and more mummies raise concerns that giving babies jabs too early may in fact be weakening their systems before they can get stronger to withstand the virus. I guess there's always 2 sides to the coin. Alright, I know what to do now, thanks
Hazel, Belle is so sweet
People always say very soon they won't want the mummies to bao bao them anymore, so why worry about pampering them a little more now? I have a very soft spot for my girl too but it's really like having a split character, to carry her when she cries/ fuss or not...constantly struggling with this, lol...
How's your Aussie trip planning? Leaving in Dec? I've been wondering what sorta medicine to get fr PD if planning to take bb overseas. Actually if still need to express bm, also another problem.... How do you handle these?
Hazel, Belle is so sweet
How's your Aussie trip planning? Leaving in Dec? I've been wondering what sorta medicine to get fr PD if planning to take bb overseas. Actually if still need to express bm, also another problem.... How do you handle these?
jklim4642
Well-Known Member
Tromoso, how do we expect bb to hv immunity to rotavirus, Penunoccal and chicken pox other than only after bb alreadt got it? N these illnesses are no joke. I rather immune her early.
I hv not finalized booking all the accommodation. V biz at work, lunch time also work thru n eat at same time. By the time I got home is 8pm. Quickly swallow dinner n shower n keep away the clothes maid iron I will go bring belle bk. until she sleeps is 10 n maid sleeps in study room. Cant print anything. Leaving end nov, brought fwd the trip coz my parents will be going holidays too with my bro's family. So I arrange same timing Loh.
Picking car at airport. so hopefully, will be easier. since got ine large n one med size luggages plus stroller, hand carry and hub's camera bag. I asked PD for Generic med for running nose, fever and diahorea. PD refuses to give me cough syrup coz age said treat the nose will also address the cough. She said cough syrup a lot of types n can only prescribe when need be. So, I will buy my own at outside phamarcy. I know which cough syrup is safe, just that is v v mild.. May not work at all if really cough.
Belle is already 8-9 mths old now, not feeding ebm anymore. Will just bring unopen tin of FM since OZ is v strict. Those loose one I hand carry I m prepared for them to throw but I still hv to bring more than what belle needs to drink during the flight. Coz nv know when flight will be delayed or belle wan to drink more.
Wat elSe u need to know? I planned such tt only 3 hrs driving max a day. That means certain places I hv to stay 1 night if not more.
I hv not finalized booking all the accommodation. V biz at work, lunch time also work thru n eat at same time. By the time I got home is 8pm. Quickly swallow dinner n shower n keep away the clothes maid iron I will go bring belle bk. until she sleeps is 10 n maid sleeps in study room. Cant print anything. Leaving end nov, brought fwd the trip coz my parents will be going holidays too with my bro's family. So I arrange same timing Loh.
Picking car at airport. so hopefully, will be easier. since got ine large n one med size luggages plus stroller, hand carry and hub's camera bag. I asked PD for Generic med for running nose, fever and diahorea. PD refuses to give me cough syrup coz age said treat the nose will also address the cough. She said cough syrup a lot of types n can only prescribe when need be. So, I will buy my own at outside phamarcy. I know which cough syrup is safe, just that is v v mild.. May not work at all if really cough.
Belle is already 8-9 mths old now, not feeding ebm anymore. Will just bring unopen tin of FM since OZ is v strict. Those loose one I hand carry I m prepared for them to throw but I still hv to bring more than what belle needs to drink during the flight. Coz nv know when flight will be delayed or belle wan to drink more.
Wat elSe u need to know? I planned such tt only 3 hrs driving max a day. That means certain places I hv to stay 1 night if not more.
Long time no pop in here... been busy with a high demand baby and a bigger kid. so tired! Sarah is not as easy to look after as Jiejie.
Heartbeat, congrats! didnt know u pop already!
tromso, best not to delay vaccinations though, my sep thread mum baby caught rotavirus from a visit to hospital and her pd kid also got it. some dont vaccinate as they think not easy to catch rotavirus but not true.
like hazel say i rather vaccinate them early.
im going back for KKH private kids clinic instead.
this TMC pediatric clinic is super chaotic. after clearing her jaundice checks with Dr Ang previously, i will not go back already. plus no proper feeding, facilities are bad there. My mum was also put off by the long wait and bad facilities. And they dont give timing for you for appointments.
Hazel, think loose ones of FM they will also not throw away. Previously, all my stuff i bring in can clear, even milk powder in packs that i pack on my own. only i heard is they check milk powder from other sources like malaysia but so far previously they didnt even look at the FM from where.
For kids, they are not as strict. they dont check so much as without kids.
Heartbeat, congrats! didnt know u pop already!
tromso, best not to delay vaccinations though, my sep thread mum baby caught rotavirus from a visit to hospital and her pd kid also got it. some dont vaccinate as they think not easy to catch rotavirus but not true.
like hazel say i rather vaccinate them early.
im going back for KKH private kids clinic instead.
this TMC pediatric clinic is super chaotic. after clearing her jaundice checks with Dr Ang previously, i will not go back already. plus no proper feeding, facilities are bad there. My mum was also put off by the long wait and bad facilities. And they dont give timing for you for appointments.
Hazel, think loose ones of FM they will also not throw away. Previously, all my stuff i bring in can clear, even milk powder in packs that i pack on my own. only i heard is they check milk powder from other sources like malaysia but so far previously they didnt even look at the FM from where.
For kids, they are not as strict. they dont check so much as without kids.
