(2007/09) September 2007 MTBs

Hi all, I've disappeared for quite a while cos my hands are full with baby Emma. I had the most stressful confinement ever! Wonder why ppl always talk abt painful labour & delivery, it shld be painful confinement!
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I was extremely stressed over my low supply which was brought about by insufficient nursing time (now I know better). I was advised by the hospital as well as Emma's PD to give FM supplement initially, cos they said Emma's pre-term & her birthweight is low/borderline premature, so she can't afford to lose weight. Being a 1st time mummy, I caved in & everything went downhill from then. My CL kept increasing the FM qty every other day and by the end of her stay with us, Emma's getting full feeds from the FM & sleeping 4-5hrs at a stretch! I felt as if I'm supplementing my BM to the FM! It was so depressing. At the end of the month, I was an emotional as well as a physical wreak & it's definitely an experience I now know better to avoid (I had to pump every 3 hrs as well as latching whenever Emma's awake. Very tiring period. Almost caved in to give up bfding & just give FM totally).

Well, since the CL left, I'm been TBF Emma & life is much easier for me. (Decided not to give up cos already tried so hard). Emma's still small compared to other babies, but she looked healthy & is feeding frequently & poos often, so I don't have to worry abt her not eating enough. She's now sleeping through the night - she'll sleep at around 10-11pm & wake up around 3-4am, so she can last 4-5 hrs at nite & around 2-3 hrs during the day. As I only started TBF after a month, it was rather tough initially, but I'm glad i persevered. Am enjoying bfding Emma.
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However, I'm all alone now with Emma, so a bit no life - I've got to catch pockets of time to go to the toilet, & to wait till she's in deep sleep b4 I can take my meals. Me becoming more and more like a huang lian poh now.
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My HB just hooked the computer up in the nursery, so I can feed & post at the same time. hahah
 


hi mummies

i am also a sept mummy... gave birth on 15/9. need ur advice badly. suspect having blocked ducts or mastitis. running a fever of 39.3 now.. is that normal? tried all ways liao from suppressing with hot towel, take hot shower, lots of fluid, cold cabbage etc.. but fever never subside leh.. only happened this morning.. should i wait for 1 more day b4 i call lc... pls help...
 
Can anyone share with me how long your baby is now? My baby seems very long and skinny. Like bean pole figure..

jme,
pop two panadols meanwhile(provided you aren't allergic to it). The LCs will advise you the same. You might have mastitis..

Ade,
Welcome back.. didn't know so much happened to you. Why don't you latch and do your chores at the same time? Can also eat and bf at the same time? I think to survive we must learn how to do things with one hand
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hung n bena

thank you for the advice.. panadol works.. been taking bigesic the whole day but it was not as effective as panadols... fever has already subsided le.. but breast still hurts like hell.. sigh.. will continue to pump..

thanks alot
 
jme,
You need to use all your strength to massage your engorged side (can use a hot compress/towel), latch baby for abt 15 mins on each side, then pump. Do this every 3 hours. The engorgement will subside within 48 hrs. Get your hubby to massage for you. It will hurt when he uses strength but you'll feel better earlier.
 
Voice, how old is your DS? I think mine is also 53cm. But I don't know his weight (definitely less than 3.8kg though.)
 
Bena, I think we both sama sama, going to be SAHM, so direct latch is the best option & got to latch & do chores at the same time. haha. I don't know Emma's length exactly, but estimate around 56cm & her weight around 3.8kg too. She's really small cos she was small at birth, so she's still rather light (I saw the growth chart, she's at the 5% mark from birth till now). Lots of catching up to do, but I'll refrain from comparing with others lest I stress myself up. =P

jme, if ur breast still hurts despite massaging & you're still having fever, I'll suggest you see a doctor cos it could be an infection. Alternatively, you can visit an LC, but they'll still suggest you to see a doctor for antibiotics to clear the infection. Think you can still nurse with mild antibiotics, so don't worry abt the medication affecting baby, unless the doctor told you otherwise.
 
Hi Angel & Bena, thks for the info. Couldn't log in all the time cos still on confinemt & pc nt in bedrm. Glad to see the spittg up of milk is ok. This is the 1st time i see bb spit up milk aft each feed & only aft abt 20min on 1 breast. I tot it cld be smetin I ate.
 
Hi <font color="0000ff">ade</font>..

My mum will be leaving next Monday. I will be like u too.... Hafta take care of BB all my myself.. Kinda worried now, hope that I will be able to manage... Well, we will hafta endure the "huang lian po" life for another 2 months before we go back to work...
 
deArmAe,

My girl was 3.46kg 51cm at birth. Now 3 weeks she is 4kg 54cm and i give 120ml (she is drinking alot)
The formula given by the LC is
4kg x 2.2 = 8.8pounds x 2.5 = 22/7 feeds (depending on how many feeds)= 3.14oz x 30 = 95ml

This is just a guidline, it really depends on individual. Cos my girl is consider above average size so she is drinking more + she is in her 3rd week when they demand to eat more! Hope this info helps.
 
Hi Peapod, Bena,

Regarding the shooting pains in my breast, I talked to my gynae and described the pain, and he seemed to think it was an infection and asked me to see my GP to get antibiotics.

So I went to see my GP, but she said its not likely to be an infection coz I don't have fever, lumps or puss coming out of my nipples. She thinks that my milk ducts are 'traumatized' by the fast/hard suction of my pump, which I always have at full blast coz of my impatience. Asked me to pump slowly at the lowest speed/suction for 3 days and see if the pain goes away, or better still nurse all day and don't pump. So I'm gonna try that and hope it gets better.
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Do you put your pumps on full blast?
 
Hi <font color="0000ff">mummies</font>..

Din post for few days.. Hope everyone is doing fine.. I have a little problem here.. I think my relationship with HB was strained after the arrival of our baby.. The reasons I can think of:

- I am tired after whole day of taking care of BB. By the time my HB reached home, I dun feel like talking to him. I sleep rather early too (at 9pm now), cos my baby wakes up early in the morning.
- Differences in opinions in handling baby.
- Could also due to the presence of my mum. She is staying with us during my confinement. There are some issues between my mum and HB. I dun wan to listen to anyone of them. Both of them haf different stories.

All the while, its only 2 of us and we r enjoying the "twosome" at home. Now, we have an additional member and things seem to change.

Maybe there are things that I can do to improve the situation, but I do not know how. Maybe someone can enlighten me. Thanks.
 
thks BB ,

for the guide. my bb def much smaller than yours. she was 2.73kg at birth. duno wats her weight now. but dun thk will be over 4kg.
i will soon noe cos bringing bb for hept B booster later. can weigh and measure to cfm.


angel...

arhhh, now it cleared the picture. i started expressing 3 days ago... then started hving blocked milk ducts liao. i was stil wondering why. i'm oso one of them who on pump on full blast. haha cos i want it fast in case my bb wakes up. u using ameda pump oso?
 
Hi <font color="0000ff">peapod</font>..

I am worried. My mum will go back to Msia next Monday after my confinement. My biggest worry is that my PIL will come and offer help if I cannot manage. I rather struggle and take care of baby myself. Cant imagine having to live with my PIL.
 
hi angel and dArmAe, me using the Ameda pump. i have the ameda pump at full blast initially, notice yield not as good as having it medium ,followed by low. vacuum will usually set as medium high, then the cycle settings i would adjust accordingly. so far so good. maybe u guys can try it out
 
Angel, I switched pump to full blast too-that explains why we all have that shooting pain.

Emily, my mil goes back on Monday too.. looks like Monday will be a crazy day for some of us..on the bright side of things, you will have one less opinion to go against.. hope your relationship with your hubby will balance out soon. There will always be adjustment when there are changes
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Ade,
You know what? Actually I would rather feed EBM if I have a choice. Cuz can schedule pumping to my own needs and feeding is also faster. But I'm not responding to pumps that well, so bopian must latch baby. Now baby is crying I have to go offer my service liao.
 
Very stressful at times latching baby. It's like the moment he cries, I must drop everything and attend to him, be it changing of diapers, burping or latching.. tough.
 
My son grew 2cm in a week. Now 55cm. But weight is still a mystery. Last week was 3.3kg (gained 620g in 3 weeks) and 53 cm..can't wait for doc's appointment later to know. He's so skinny, but yet so heavy when latching..
 
today is my third day increasing frequency of latch on (fingers cross, hopefully no sore nipples), as compared to feeding EBM...

with EBM, more flexibility to schedule, but i do enjoy the latching on closeness with my boy. sigh....

now with my CL stil around, i pump at night and early morning (10pm, 2.30am and 7am). then latch in the day. in the evening till 11pm, CL will feed EBM which i have pumped in the early morning. its hard to handle pumping, feeding, latching, etc. not counting changing of diapers, fussing, etc.

so far my boy feeds at 2 hour interval (even with EBM of 110ml), so its quite impossible for me to sneak in pumping in between feeds. anyone with the same problem ? how do you manage to pump inbetween feeds if boy feeds 2 hourly like an alarm clock. i tried increasing EBM, but seems he only willing to take 110ml at each feed, at 2 hourly interval (and thats counting from start of feed)
 
Haha ok so seems like we've solved the mystery! Looks like our breasts are telling us to slow things down.
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Btw I'm using medela PIS pump.

This morning I pumped using the slowest speed and suction, took a little longer but I still got the same amt of milk as before. Hopefully it stays that way!

Emily, Bena
My CL goes back tomorrow, and Monday I'll be all alone too!! Cross our fingers and hope our babies will be 'guai' and cooperate with us.... If not, may the force be with us!!

Pillow,
Regarding pumping, you can also work on increasing your supply by pumping immediately after feeds to empty your breasts completely. The more you empty your breasts, the more milk your body will produce (demand=supply).
 
Hi emily, my PIL staying with me for a week now after CL left. So far still ok. I didn't have any conflicts with them yet. Just that 1) I tend to spend less time and attention on baby since they are so eager to carry him, talk to him etc and I can't be seen to snatch them away. So mainly have baby to myself during feeding only
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2) Hate hate hate it when baby cries after feeding and they will ask "maybe he didn't have enough?" On the other hand, I feel more fan xin with my MIL around who is much more experienced in handling babies. Also they help out with housework (washing baby's diapers) and cooking. So got pros and cons lar. BUT i cannot take it if they decided to stay permanently. All the housework and stuff is not worth our privacy and "er ren shi jie".


My baby didn't grow in length leh
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Still 50cm... abit worried. He did grow much fatter and head got bigger too so in the end, looks abit like big head, small body :p


By the way, anyone ever noticed that baby got spasms once in a while? Just very short duration, like 1 sec - more like jerking. Me worried
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Another good read to share from the book No-Cry Sleep Solution by Elizabeth Pantley.


********TO GET THE SHORT NAPPER TO SLEEP LONGER--
"...put your baby down for a nap. set a timer or keep your eye onthe time. about 5-10 min BEFORE the usual awakening time, sit outside the bedroom door and listen carefully (using this time to read, knit, fold laundry, pay bills, etc). The minute your baby makes a sound, go in quickly. you'll find him in a sleepy, just-about--to-wake-up state. Use whatever technique helps him fall back to sleep-bf, rocking, or offerin bottle/paci. if you've caught him quickly enough, he sill fall back to sleep. after about a week or so of this intervention, your short napper should be taking a much longer snooze without any help from you..." SOUNDS TOO GOOD TO BE TRUE! however on my first (and only so far) attempt, my munchkin went from 30 min to 1 1/2 hours.... one off? maybe... hope not!

-introduce a lovey

-develop key words as a sleep cue and only use the during sleep time (shhh, shhh it's ok, its sleepy time for example)

-use music or sound as sleep cues and use when baby wakes at night

***NEW ADDITIONS***
GET YOUR BABY READY
before you attemt to make any changes in your baby's sleep routine, make certain that she is comfortable, healthy and well fed. a baby who is hungry, cold, too warm, or has an ear infection, allergies, or any other helth problem may wake at night because of pain or discomfort. rule out these issues before you embark on your plan for better sleep
--FILL THAT DAYTIME TUMMY
make sure your baby is getting enough to eat during the day, especially if he is exclusively bf or formula fed. some babies get in the habit of nursing or drinking bottles all through the night, taking an inordinate percentage of their daily calories then. to slep longer at night, these babies need to tip the feeding scales back toward daytime. for those little ones eating solids, make sure that MOST food choices are healthful ones...good nutrition is important for overall healh, including good sleep. take a look at what your toddler eats in the hours before bedtime. does he munch on foods that are conducive to good sleep? some foods are more easily digested thatn others and are less apt to disrupt sleep cycles. think ''comfort food''- complex, healthful carbs and nourishing proteins... in contrast, many foods tend to ''rev' the body a bit. look for hidden caffeine and other stimulating substances...
--BREASTFEED MORE DURING THE DAY
--CHECK BABY'S NIGHTTIME COMFORT
make sure baby's bed is very comfortable (not TOO soft or yeilding). dress him according to the temperature of the room, takeing care he is neither too cold nor too hot
--DEVELOP A BEDTIME ROUTINE
a bedtime routine becomes your baby's signal that bedtime is here. it invokes a conditioned response from baby: ''Oh! Ti's bedtime! i should be sleepy!'' a routine for the hour before bedtime is crucial in cueing and prearing your baby for sleep. include any of the following that you enjoy and that help ssoothe and quiet your baby: warm calm baath, massaging, reading books, singing songs, playing soft music, taking a walk, rocking, bf, bottlefeeding. the hour before bed should be peace ul. you routine should be done in rooms twith dim lights. your last step should end in the quiet, dark bedroom w/ little talking and you usual go-to-sleep technique. write down your routine, and make it very specific. a sample bedtime routine would look like this:
1. 7:00pm- bath
2 massage w/ baby lotion
3 put on pj's
4 read 3 books
5 lights out
6 sing lullaby
7 bf or bottle feed
8 rub back
9 sleep
--A ROUTINE HELPS SET BABY'S BIOLOGICAL CLOCK
in addition to the routine itself, if you can put your baby down for anaps and bed at about the same time every day, you wil achieve sleep success much sooner, because the consistency will help set your baby's internal clock. an added bonus of this dea is that a specific routine organizes your life, reducing your stress and tension
--A FLEXIBLE ROUTINE IS BEST
...try and maintain your bedtime routine as often as prossible, but watch your baby too. if your LO is fussing and yawning it's not the time to have a bath and read a bedtime story! it's the time to skip some steps and get him to bed ASAP! you may have to forfeit your entire routine some nights; if Great-grandma is having her 100th bday party don't feel that you have to leave at 6pm sharp to get your bedtime routine going. there are times when you'll have to go with the flow and get back to routine the next night
--ESTABLISH AN EARLY BEDTIME **this idea may help everyone
many people put their babies to bed much too late, often hopint that if baby is ''really tired'' he will sleep better. this often backfires because baby becomes overtired and chronically sleep-deprived. in THE PROMISE OF SLEEP (Dell, 200) Dr. William C. Dement states,'' The effects of delaying bedtime by even half an hour can be subtle and pernicious [very destructive]'' when it comes to babies and young children. a baby's biological clock is preset for early bedtime. when parents work with that time, a baby falls asleep more easily and stays alseep more peacefully. most babies are primed to go to sleep for the night as early as 6:30 or 7pm. it is helpful if you establish your baby's bedtime and plan for it y beginning your prebed routine an hour before, if at all possible. i often hear about how babies and young children have a 'meltdown' period at the end of the day, when they get fussy, whiny, and out of sorts. i now suspect that it's simply a sign of overtired children longing for sleep.
--FOR BABIES, EARLY TO BED DOS NOT MEAN EARLY TO RISE
--WHAT ABOUT WORKING PARENTS?
if you are a working parent and your evening w/ your LO BEGINS at 6:30-7pm, you may find yourself torn between keeping your baby up for some playtime and getting him right to bed. because you are readin g this book, i know that you would like your baby to sleep better. this is a key idea, so it may be worth trying it out to see what the results are for you. some working parents find that when their baby goes to sleep earlier, and sleeps better, he awakens in a pleasant mood, eager to play. because you, the parent, have gootten a good night's sleep, you can consider gettintg up earlier in the morning and saving sometime before work to play with your baby, as an altnative to that late-evening play session. you'll both enjoy that special morning time. later, when your baby is consistently sleeping through the night, every night, you can then move the bedtime a little later and judge whether the differnece affects you baby's sleep.
--HELP YOUR BABY TAKE REGULAR NAPS
... when? if baby takes 3 naps: midmornigng. early afternoon, and early evening.. if baby takes 2 naps: midmorning and early afternoon.. if baby takes 1 nap: early afternoon
--THE NAP ROUTINE
once you've established a nap schedule for your baby, create a simple but specific nap routine that is differnnt from your nightitme routine. it can gave similarities that signal sleep, for example, the presence of a lovey or special sleep-inducing music. folllow your nap routine the same way every day (except, as i mentioned before, if your baby is showing clear signs of being tired and ready to sleep. then abbreviate or even eliminate your routine for that day.)

IMPORTANT: IF YOU ARE WORKING ON SOLVING A FREQUENT NIGHT-WAKING PROBLEM, DO ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING THAT WORKS TO GET YOUR BABY TO NAP DURING THE EAY; A WELL-RESTED BABY WILL RESPOND BETTER TO THE IGHTTIME SLEEP IDEAS

that's all new stuff for now, will write more soon!



********PANTLEY'S GENTLE REMOVAL PLAN--
"...TO CHANGE BABY'S SLEEP ASSOCIATION- WHEN YOUR ABY WAKES, GO AHEAD AND POP HIS PACIFIER OR BOTTLE INTO MOUTH OR NURSE HIM. BUT, INSTEAD OF LEAVING HIM THERE AND GOING BACK TO BED, OR LETTING HIM FALL ASLEEP AT THE BREAST, LET HIM SUCK FOR A FEW MIN UNTIL HIS SUCKING SLOWS AND HE IS RELAXED AND SLEEPY. THE BREAK THE SEAL WITH YOUR FINGER AND GENTLY REMOVE THE PACIFIER OR NIPPLE.

OFTEN, EXPECIALLY AT FIRST YOUR BABY THEN WILL STARTLE AND ROOT FOR THE NIPPLE. TRY TO VERY GENTLY HOLD HIS MOUTH CLOSED WITH YOUR FINGER UNDER HIS CHIN, OR APPLY PRESSURE TO HIS CHIN, JUST UNDER HIS LIP AT THE SAME TIME ROCKING OR SWAYING WITH HIM (USE KEY YOUR KEY WORDS IF YOU DEVELOPED THEM). IF HE STRUGGLES AGAINST THIS AND ROOTS FOR YOUR OR HIS PACI OR BOTTLE, OR FUSSES, GO AHEAD AND REPLACE THE PROP, BUT REPEAT THE REMOVAL PROCESS AS OFTEN AS NECESSARY UNTIL HE FALLS ASLEEP.

HOW LONG BETWEEN REMOVALS? EVERY BABY IS DIFFERENT BUT ABOUT 10-60 SEC... IT MAY TAKE 2-5 (OR MORE) ATTEMPTS BUT EVENTUALLY BABY WIL FALL ASLEEP W/OUT THE PROP IN HER MOUTH. WHEN SHE HAS DONE THIS A NUMBER OF TIMES OVER A PERIOD OF DAYS, YOU WILL NOTICE THE RMOVALS ARE MUCH EASIER, AND HER AWAKENINGS ARE LESS FREQUENT...

Pantley's Gentle Removal Plan looks something like this (this example shows a bf baby, but the plan is the same whether baby is bf, using a bottle or paci)

baby is awake and nursing vigorouslly
babys eyes close and his sucking rate slows
you gently remove your nipple
baby roots (moving his mouth open towards you)
try holding the chin, but he'll have none of that!
you put him back to the breast
count: 1thousand, 2thousand,... ten thousand*
you gently remove your nipple
baby roots
you try stalling, but no dice
you put him back to the breast
count :1thousand, 2 thousand,... ten thousand
you gently remove your nipple
baby roots
you put him back to the breast
count: one thousand, tow thousand,... ten thousand
you gently remove your nipple
baby moves a little, and you gently hold his mouth closed (betsy says- my baby won't let me do this, so i place her on my shoulder and rub her back)
baby doesn't resist, he is nearly out
you place baby in bed
he goes to sleep

* the counting is really moe for you, to give you a gauge to mearuse you r time and a way to keep yourself calm during your repeated attempts. you can be flexible as you figure out what time spacing works best for you and your baby

REPEAT THIS PROCESS EVERY NIGHT UNTIL BABY LEARNS SHE CALN FALL ASLEEP W/OUT THE PROP. IF YOUR BABY IS A "GOOD NAPPER" YOU CAN USE THE TECHNIQUE FOR NAPTIMES TOO.

IF NOT A GOOD NAPPER, DON'T TROUBLE YOURSELF W/ TRYING TOO HARD TO USE THE REMOVAL TECHNIQUE DURING THE DAY. REMEMBER THAT GOOD NAPS MEAN BETTER NIGHTTIME SLEEP- AND BETTER NIGHTTIME SLEEP MEANS BETTER NAPS. IT'S A CIRCLE. ONCE YOU GET YOUR BABY SLEEPING BETTER AT NIGHT, YOU CAN THEN WORK ON THE NAPTIME SLEEP- ALTHOUGH ONCE YOU SOLVE THE NIGHTTIME ASSOCIATION, THE NAPTIME SLEEP MAY RESOLVE ITSELF.

THE MOST IMPORTANT TIME TO USE THE PANTLEY'S GENTLE REMOVAL PLAN IS THE FIRST FALLING ASLEEP OF THE NIGHT. OFTEN THE WAY YOUR BABY FALLS ALSEEP WILL AFFECT THE REST OF HIS AWAKENINGS FOR THE NIGHT. I SUSPECT THIS IS BECAUSE OF THE SLEEP-ASSOCIATION AFFECT... IT SEEMS THAT THE WAY IN WHICH YOUR BABY FALLS ASLEEP FOR THE NIGHT IS HOW HE EXPECTS TO REMAIN ALL NIGHT LONG.

BECAUSE WE WANT NO CRYING, THIS IS NOT A 1-DAY SOLUTION. BUT WITHIN 10 DAYS AS YOU GENTLY BREAK THIS STRONG SLEEP ASSOCIATION, YOU SHOULD SEE A MAJOR REDUVTION IN THE NUMBER OF YOUR BABY'S NIGHT WAKINGS...."

CHANGING YOUR ROUTINE
very often we parents have a routine we have followed with our babies since birth. the final step before sleep is often ursing or having a bottle. some babies, like my Coleton can continue this pattern and still sleep through the night. others, thogh, need to have the final step in their routine changed before tehy begin to sleep all night w/out needing your help to fall back to sleep. what you'll want to do is take an objective look at your final steps in putting your baby to sleep and make some changes if necessary

you may want to use massaging, cuddling, or the key words idea (sleep cues) to help your baby back t osleep. eventually the key words and a loving pat will take over for nursing or bottlefeeding, and then that too will fade away and your baby will be sleeping longer. Here's what one test mommy reported: "i have changed the way i'm putting Carlene to sleep and it's working! instead of nursing her down, i just feed her until she is relaxed and then i just let her do whatever whe wants in the very diim room with me. when she rubs her eyes adn looks sleepy i put her in her crib. i used to go out of the room, hoping she would drift off herself, but she would just get agitated and work herself up until i came back. but now, i juust sstay there. i stand next to the crib and encourage her to sleep. i say my key words, 'shhhh, it's night-night time, close you eyes sleepy girl,' and i tell her that it's OK to go to sleep. i rub her head or her tummy. she shuts her eyes right when i do this. she'll open them back up a few times, but eventually she settles. since i'm not nursing or rocking, she is falling asleep without these, so when she lightly wakes during sleep cycle transition, she is finally able to go back to sleep w/out me. it's been a major breakthrough." Rene, mother or 7-month-old Carlene

HELP YOU BABY TO FALL BACK TO SLEEP ON HIS OWN WHILE YOU CONTINUE TO BREASTFEED AND CO-SLEEP--- this idea may help breastfeeding and co-sleeping babies

let me start by saying that, when you breastfeed and co-sleep, you may find that your aby will wake more often than if she were in a crib down the hall. but you may feel that the reasons that you keep your baby in your bed outweigh the inconvenience of a few night wakings. like you, i have chosen to bresatfeed and co-sleep for many reasons that are important to me- and ive done it will all four of my babies.

one important thing to remember is that "this too shall pass." all of my children eventually slept through the night, and your baby will too. however, there are ways that you can speed up the process of your baby sleeping all night- even while keeping your little one in bed with you

make sure that you've read the safety list in chapter 1. much of what i have read about the dangers associatted with co-sleeping point to unsafe sleeping environments as the real issue. read up on the topic and make a wise and informed decision, and religiously follow all safety measures

the challenge with bf and co-sleeping mother-baby pairs is that each partner is so in tune with the other that the slightest movement or noise will have both awake. mommy and daddy end up creating additional wakings ni between the baby's natural ones, thus creating and all night wake-sleep pattern

the trick is to get baby accustimed to sleping bedise you but able to go back to sleep w/out your help (typically in the form of nursing). you can do this by shortening your nighttime help routines. i know that this is possible because today my son Coleton is 18 months old, still breastfeeding and co-sleeping= and sleeping about 10 hours at night w/out a peep/ this is the same baby that a few months ago woke up every hour or so to breastfeed. so i am living proof that you don't have to give up a sleeping ritual that you ove just to get some sleep. not all babies will respond as coleton did, of course. but many of my test-mommies practice bf and co- sleeping (i will refer to this as CS now..) and many found their own sleep success w/out having to move their babies out of their beds. some stubborn little ones do require a move to another room before they will give up the luxury of nighttime nursing, but do try all of my ideas for a few weeks before you assume this to e correct for your baby.

when baby wakes you probably have a routine to get her back to sleep. for Coleton and me, it was bf. i used to nurse him until he was totally asleep; the niple would literally fall out of his mouth. every hour, we had a very exact pattern. Coleton woke, i shifted him to the other side, i kissed his head, he nursed- a eautiful, soothing ritual. sometimes he would wake up and pucker up, looking for the kiss and the shift. as sweet as this ritual was, after 12 months of this hourly ceremony, i desperately needed a change

STOP FEEDING A SLEEPING BABY- as with the writing of this book, learning how to break the association was a gradual, thoughtful process that required much self-examination. i found i was responding to Coleton so quickly and intuitively that id pu him to the breast before he even made a real noise- he would fidget, gurgle, or sniff and i would put him to the breast. i began to realize that, on so many of these occasions, he would ave gone to sleep w/out me.

as you know, i am a follower of the "never let your baby cry" rule, and i took it very seriously. what i didn't understand though, is that babies make sounds IN THEIR SLEEP (Tracy Hogg refers to this as a 'phantom cry') babies can even NURSE in their sleep

the first step to helping your baby sleep longer is to determine the difference between sleeping noises and awake noises. when baby makes a noise, stop. Listen. Wait. Peek. as you listen attentively to her noises and watch her, you will learn the difference between sleeping snorts and "i'm waking up and i need you now" noises

when i learned this eye-opeing piece of info, i started "playing asleep" when Coleton made a nighttime noise. i would just listen and watch- not moving a single muscle- until he began to make actual wakeful noises. someof the time he never did; he just went back to sleep!

SHORTEN YOUR NIGHTTIME NURSING TIMES-- you may be fgollowing the pattern that we were- putting baby to the breast then both of you falling back to sleep. it's very easy to do, because the act of bf releases hormones that make mommy sleepy, just as much as the milk makes baby sleepy. the problem is that your baby falls soundly asleep at the breast, and beins to believe that neging the nipple in her mouth is the only way she CAN sleep. therefore, every time she reaches a brief awakening, she looks to re-create her sleep-inducing condition. you can help your baby learn to fall asleep w/out this aid by shortining your nighttime nursing intervals.

when you are sure you baby is awake and looking to nurse, go ahead and nurse him for a short time. Stay Awake! and as soon as he slows his pace from the gulping, drink mode to the low fluttery comfort nursing, you can gently disengage him while pattine or rubbing him (See Pantley's Gentle Removal Plan above)

Sometimes you can put your baby's hand on your breast during the removal, since many babies will accept this touch as a substitute for nursing; it seems tto keep you "connected" and he knows that the milk is nearby if he needs it

another option is to make the latch-on a litte less comfortable and convenient for your baby. so, instead of laying tummy to tummy with you baby cradled in your arm, shift yourself slightly onto your back so that he has to work a bit to keep the nipple in his mout. often he'll decide it's too much effort and he'll let go and go back to sleep

if your baby whimpers at any point during this removal process, or somehow letsyou know that he is up for real (by crawling onto your chest for example!) go ahead and bf him. then repeat the process to kee the nursing session short, and disconnect him before he is deeply asleep/

sometimes, it may take 3-5 time before you baby will settle back into sleep. after a week of using this technique with Coleton, he began to disengage HIMSELF, turn over with his back to me, and fall asleep! it was wonderful; perhaps only a cs and bf mommy can understand just how sweet her baby's backside can be at this time. in fact, coleton (at this writing 18 months old) STILL does this; he nurses until he's very comfortable, then rolls away from me and goes to sleep. now that he's sleep 10 or so hours, i leave him in bed with his brother david in our sleeping room and i am free to join my husband in our own bed for baby-free sleep and couple time

MOVE THE MILK-- here is another idea eespecially for co-sleepers. after you nurse your baby, scoot yourself away from her. if she is snuggled right up against you, she will awaken and want to nurse more often- sometimes, as i mentioned earlier, even in her sleep. if your baby is used to feeling you against her, then you may want to try a tactile replacement. a small stuffed animal is perfect for the job. simply place the toy next to your baby's body or legs (away from her face) when you move away, so that she feels something against her.

for those persistant night nursers, you may even want to change your sleeping arrangement for a few weeks until you get the frequent night waking under control. i put 2 mattresses on the floor next to each other in our sleeping room. during the period of change, i began to nurse coleton on one bed; once he was asleep, id move to the other. granted, it was only 5 feet away, but it was far enough away that i did not cause any additional awakenings. if ou have a crib, you can try the sidecar arragngement- pushing the crib up next to your bed and letting baby have his own sleeping cubby (at the risk of sounding like a nag, follow good safety mearsures if you do this)

i must tell you though that some very persistant co-sleeping night wakers have "mommy radar" and may continjue thsir numerous nightwakings until mommy and baby sleep in different rooms. if you try all of my other ideas, and find tat your baby is still waking frequently you'll need to make that ultimate decision- what's more important right now- cs or just plain sleeping? i cannot answer that question for you, and thereis no right answer. you'll need to examine the needs of every member of your family to determine just what path you should take. even if you decide to move baby to a different sleeping spot, remember that, when he is sleeping soidly through the night, you can welcome him back to into your bed anytime.

you may want to use your key words (Tracy dubs 'sleep cues') to help your baby back to sleep. eventually, the key words and loving touch will take over for nursing, and then that too will fade away, and your aby will sleep longer without waking you.

just like most of the ideas in this book, the one here is based on gradual change over time- no quick fixes or tearful transitions

HELP YOUR BABY FALL BACK TO SLEEP WITH ANOTHER PERSON'S ASSISTANCE-- this idea may help breastfeeding and co-sleeping babies

in most cases, breastfeeding and c-sleeping babies wake up becaue they love having access to mommy all night long. anytime they wake up, they see, hear, smell, and feel you and think, "aha! lovely warm milk and cozy mommy. gotta have it!" so, if you have a husband, partner, mother or someone else who is willing and able to hlp for a week or so, you might want to ask that person to sleep near your baby in your stead.

if your baby is younger than about 18 months, set up a crib, cradle, or mattress right next o the helper's bed, as it's NEVER a good idea for someone other than mom to sleep right next to a tiny baby; only mom has that "mother's instinct" that prevents rolling over on the baby. this should e a person your baby is very close to and comfortable with. if possivle, have him or her start this process with naps for a few days first (if not that's OK- start right in with bedtime)

when baby awakens, have your helper rock, walk with, hum to the baby- anything that helps her go back to sleep. try to avoid using a bottle, as you'll substitute one prop for another. if you helper uses a paci to calm baby, keep in mind that at some point down the road you'll probably have to deal with weaning from the paci. many parents find that they are comfortable with that scenario.

tell your helper that it isn't "do or die." in other words, if baby starts to cry and get upset, or if your helper is losing patience, tell him or her it's OK to bring the baby to you. and try again with the next waking. when baby comes to you (notice i said "when" not "if"), follow the ideas in the sectin called Help Your Baby Fall Back to Sleep on His own While you Continue to Breastfeed and Co- Sleep...

from Elizabeth Pantley's- no-cry sleep solution--

"...HELP YOUR BABY TO FALL BACK TO SLEEP ON HER OWN
*this idea may help crib sleepers

It's likely that every time your baby is crying or calling out to you during the night you are doing something to help him to fall back to sleep. to gradually get baby to go back to sleep w/out your assistance, you need to shorten these helping routines during the night.

When baby wakes, you probably have a specific routine to get her back to sleep, such as picking her up, rocking her, nursing her, and giving her a bottle or pacifier. as yoyu read in chapter 2, your baby thinks she NEEDS this routine to go back to sleep. we don't want to go cold turkey and cut out the familiar, nurturing pattern that you have established' that's a sure way to cause stress and tears. instead, very gradually modify the LENGTH of your help routine so that you are doing less each night. eventually, your baby will develop a new routine that doesn't require your presence.

When your baby wakes up, go ahead and use your regular means of getting him back to sleep, but gradually SHORTEN the DURATION and VARY THE TECHNIQUE. so, instead of letting him fall asleep totally, encourage drowsiness and then see if he'll finish falling asleep on his own. if he fusses, repeat the process. this ma take 3,4,or more attempts the first few nithts; and you may even have to abort your mission on some nights. over a period of a week or 2 you will see definite progress, which you will evaluate when you do your 10-day logs.

Your nightsmight now look something like this:
-baby wakes
-you pick her up;sit in a chair';; and rock, nurse, bottle feed, or take her to bed with you until she's sound asleep
-the you probably ease her gently into the crib w/out waking her. when you move baby from your arms to the crib, you do it very slowly and carefully, so as to not wake her
-then you creep out of the room and await your next call

if you are going to use this suggestion, and if your baby uses a paci, bottle, or the breast at every night waking, then you will want to incorporate Pantley's Gentle Removal Plan (as in PART 1 of my previous post) along with the ideas that follow.

I have found that many mothers have been told to respond to their babies immediately and never let them cry. one problem here. "experts" forgot to tell you that babies make sounds IN THEIR SLEEP. babies moan, grunt, snuffle, whimper, and even cry IN THEIR SLEEP. mothers often run to their little ones at the first noise and scoop their babies out of their cribs. i did this with my first baby, 14 years ago, and i can still remember that sometimes she was asleep in my arms before i even got to the rocking chair to sit down. whaat i didn't know was that she had never really been awake.

The first step to helping your baby sleep longer is to determine the difference between sleeping noises and awake noises. i'm not suggesting that you ignore a baby's true cries by any means; she may need you, and this is the only way she can communicate this. in fact, when you wait too long and she wakes up fully-- crying and yelling- she will find it much harder to fall back to sleep. rather, keep her door and yours open, or use a baby moniter. when she makes a noise, stop. Listen. Wait. as you listen attentively to her noises, you will learn the difference between sleeping snorts and "i'm waking up and i need you now" noises.

The following sample pattern shoes the duration and type of nighttime help being shortened. this is by no means an exact plan, you own method may be quite different, but his will give you an understanding of the concept:

PHASE 1: COMFORT UNTIL BABY'S ALMOST ASLEEP
once you determine your babyis really awake, go and get her. sit in the rocking chair adn rock, nurse, or bottle-feed baby but only until her eyes close, her sucking rate slows, and she's falling asleep. try not to wait until she is totally asleep. stand up with her in your arms and rock or sway gently. when you lay her down, keep your arms around her for a few minutes, making gentle rockin motions (yes, this can be tough on your back, but it's only temporary) she will accept the change from your lap toher bed if you don't abruptly "dump" her there. keep in mind that, when she sleeps on you, you are moving and breathing, while thebed is still and silent. so gentle movement in the trasition helps. once she seems settled, gently slip your arms out from under her. if she stirs, put your hand on her; whisper your key words (pat/shh or what works!!) or turn on the soothing bedtime music; and rock, pat or touch her gently until she's asleep. if she wakes and cries, pick her up, and repeat this process. you may have to do this 2,3,4, maybe 5 times, but that's OK- REALLY. if you or your baby gets upset at any point, just go ahead and put her to sleep in your usual way and ditch the plan for the moment. eventually she will get more comfortable with your new routine and she will go to sleep. she will still be depending on you to help her go back to sleep, but because she is finishing the falling-aslee process in ther crib, she will be one step closer to being able to put herself to sleep when she wakes in the night.

Remember, you are making a change. it may take a while for this to work, but this beats spending another year or more in a sleep-depreived stupor!

When you feel that your new routine is working, go on to Phase 2

PHASE 2: BABY'S SETTLED AND SLEEPY
sit in your chair and rock, nurse, or bottle-feed baby until she's SETTLED and SLEEPY, but not yet falling ASLEEP. play your sleep-cue music or sounds. put her in her crib, pat or touch her, and say your key words (or pat/shh etc.) until she's asleep. if she wakes and cries, pick her up and repeat this process. you may have to do this 2,3,4, maybe 5 times, but that's OK. if you or your baby get upset at any point, just go ahead and put her to sleep in your usual way. as in Phase 1, she will become more comfortable with your new routine and will go to sleep (yes, i repeated that idea; it's important to give yourself permission to stop the process for the night any time it's not working. you will see improvement over time.)

When you feel that your new routine is working, go on to Phase 3.

PHASE 3:COMFORT W/OUT PICKUPS
when your baby makes waking sounds, go immediately to her, but try not to pick her up; instead, play your music or sounds, pat her, touch her, or put your arms around her in the same ways you have been, until she's asleep. while she's falling asleep, say your key words. if she wakes and cries, go ahead and revert back to Phase 2 or even Phase 1, but try to make it brief. And repeat this process.

When you feel that your new routine is working, go on to Phase 4

PHASE 4: SOOTHIHNG PATS
go immediately to baby, but try not to puck her up. lay your music or white noise sounds very quietly, pat her or touch her. just stand by her crib and say your key words. if she wakes and cries, revert to Phase 3 or even 2, but try to make it very brief. Repeat this process.

When you feel that your new routine is working, go on to Phase 5

PHASE 5: VERBALLY SOOTHING BABY
go immediately to baby's room, and stand in the doorway. experiment to determine if you need to turn on your music or sounds. say your key words. if she wakes and cries, revert back to previous phases, but try to make it very brief. and repeat this process.

When you feel that your new routine is working, go on to Phase 6

PHASE 6: COMFORT FROM OUTSIDE THE DOORWAY
go immediatly to baby's room, stand OUTSIDE the doorway where she can't see you, and say your key words. if she wakes and cries, revert back to previous phases, but try to make it very brief. repeat this process.

the idea is to take small gradual steps toward your goal. this example is not meant as a blueprint for every baby; rather, it's one demonstration of the idea. you'll need to examine your own bedtime rituals and modify them slightly every few nights until you reach your sleeping goal.

Keep in mind that the phases are not meant to be rigid, infelxible steps. watch your baby. stay in tune with your own feelings. follow your heart. modify your plan and be flexible as you move through the steps. aslong as you are gradually moving toward your goal of having your baby sleep all night without your company, you eventually get there...."
 
peapod,
Now is "san ren shi jie" already.. baby sometimes will jerk in their sleep. It's reflex action and totally normal. My MIL also will ask the same question. I'll just answer "oh maybe".. then bring him back to the room and latch him. Sometimes I realised it's really that he's not having enough. Sometimes it's not and he pushes the breasts away. Then I'll go out and tell my mil he rejected my breasts.. he very full
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. Then sometimes I will turn the tables around and ask her why baby cry. Could it be not enough to eat? Then it becomes her responsibility to second guess why baby cry. Btw, my baby has been vomitting.. these days she stopped me from feeding him too much cuz she say I overfed, and that's why baby vomit! What a turn of events. My baby also.. big head, but body is skinny and long
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The funny thing is my mil will turn around and console me that it takes time to fatten baby..

Angel, adding u to the list of mums who will "shou mang jiao luan" on Monday..be prepared to receive my SOS SMS on Monday
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hi bena, my baby is into his 3wks old now.

Peapod: if your baby tends to jerk to the slightest noise, better swaddle him up and at least he feels more secure. Alternatively put him lying tummy faced down but got to watch him closely. My auntie said bb who sleeps tummy faced down will look more handsome/beautiful, cos' the face structure will grow longer instead of rounder...haahaa! (like those caucasians, not sure how true lah this theory)

Em: Try to have a talk with ur hubby on the preferences and ways of you both handling baby, have to give and take just like relationships. Afterall, son belongs to both of you so there's no 1 way in handling baby, our ways may not be the best so have to be open to try other methods.
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Hope your relationship with your hubby will get better.
 
Hi Ivy,

Here's my CL's recipe for the papaya soup:

Ingredients:
- Chinese herbs: Dang Shen, Bei Qi, Hong Zhao and Dan Gui (a few pieces of each type)
- Pork Ribs (put into boiling water for 2 mins first to clean)
- Green Papaya (cut into small pieces ~2 inch cube size)

Instructions:
1) First put all the herbs in boiling water and cook for 1 hour with a small fire.
2) Then put papaya and pork ribs into the pot and cook for another 1 hour on small fire.
3) Add a bit of salt at the end (optional)

If you don't like pork ribs, use fish also can. Fish is better if you want to increase milk supply. But I like the pork ribs better
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bena
been doing that for the whole night every 2 hourly.. pump for an hour then massage then pump then massage.. however fell asleep from 6am to 10am.. initially only right breast blocked..but now left one also..

ade
can the antibiotics besides clearing infection, will it help to clear the blockage as well? cos my fever is back again.. sianz.. but will monitor today and see only see doc tonight if fever and blockage persist


this whole period after giving birth has not been smooth. suffered from postpartum haemorrhage after giving birth.. loss of blood cos uterus couldnt contract.. then transfused 2 pints of blood and got transferred to high dependency ward.. guess what.. i even got special " visitors" came visiting me in the wee hours when i was there.. haha.. but was too ill to be scare..

then got to re-admit into hospital with my girl due to her high jaundice.. didnt sleep that 2 days.. nurse even advice me must learn to fan xia and rest.. but cant la.. super heart pain to see bao bao suffer..

then now fever and blockage.. pump until i scare...
 
jme,
You really suffered quite a bit.. do take care.. things will improve slowly.. the worst is over.

Angel, wah so long.. must take time to read.. thanks!
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Bena,
Haha expect to receive my SMS too!! My CL very funny, today she cooked a big pot of ginseng soup for me and my hubby to drink - tell me that I'll need the strength for tomorrow when she's gone.

Darmae,
Occupational hazard? Hahaha! Ya I think so too. I just tasted my breast milk for the first time hehe (I hate milk)...it actually tastes quite nice and sweet
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Hmmm I'm wondering if its sweet because of the longan and red dates tea I've been drinking! Does yours taste sweet too?
 
jme

pump many many times

i also have fever as high as 39.3. during that time, i took panadol, and i pump almost every 2 hrs. its to empty the breast. after a few times, u will notice ur temp go down.
but dun stop, continude to pump frequently. by the next day, ur fever should subside. if not, pls go see doc
 
Hi,

Today i got "strawberry milk" from my right breast. Got so scared. However after some clean up and setting of the pump to the lowest mode, the milk came out normal again. Anyone mummies out there who experienced such incidents before?? I only pump 4 times a day onli. Dunno if it is due to my excessive "massage".
 
Hi everyone,

I've juz finished my confinement and can i join yr thread? B'cos aft confinement... i'm still a blur mom when comes to taking care of my new born and myself. Aft my CL left, i'm now alone with my bb at home.
I've been latching my boy since his birth... now i'm oso experiencing the same as pooh's situation... strawberry milk. Very scare.. how shld i see a doc now? Can i still latch my boy?
 
Angel, your CL quite nice leh.. so thoughtful!

I'm so happy. Baby has gained 1kg from his birth weight. I think it's not too bad for a TBF baby. Now he is 3.7kg. Jaundice level has also gone down. Time to shut my mum off abt me torturing his grandson.
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Hi hi, never posted for the past 2 days cos busy busy ... with what you may ask! Well, yesterday was my son's actual day "man yue" so was busy with the traditional stuff like cutting his hair in the morning, making red eggs, delivering cakes etc.

Oh btw something drastic happened yesterday ... I chanced upon discovering my CL steals! All thanks to my hubby who locked our room and forgot to pass me the key. In the end I had to pump milk in the other room where the CL sleeps. Somehow was prompted to check her bag cos my mum has been telling me she thinks this auntie is not honest and been complaining to me about her, saying she did not do alot of things which CL is supposed to do.

So ... I went to take a peep at her bag. As she put all her clothings in the drawer, it's quite easy to see what's in her bag. Guess what? I saw several packets of stuff wrapped in newspapers and plastic bag. Out of curiousity, I opened ... was shocked to see packets of the tonics and herbs she asked my hubby to buy (supposed to be cooking those for me).

It was actually quite "drama" last night cos our whole family was secretly discussing how to handle this - to expose or not to expose her? Afterall today is her last day so left only 1 more day.

In the end, my hubby said since she knows where we stay etc., better don't blow up the matter. Afterall what she stole was not the very expensive ones (luckily we already kept the expensive ginseng as advised by my mum). So, we cooked up an excuse saying we are going out early next morning so since there's nothing much for her to do, she can go back early.

Paid her salary in full w/o exposing her stealing act. Actually kinda regretted being so kind to her after hearing what my maid told us about her today ... apparently she has been complaining alot about my mum and also "brain-washing" my maid that we are not treating her well enough (when in actual fact, my maid is quite contented with having us as employers). Sigh ...
 
wah blue, ur CL so daring! You guys are a bunch of gracious ppl, did not expose her ugly deeds, think if it's me...sure shoot her, hee hee! Glad those stuff she took was not expensive and most important you guys are safe and not under threat.
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Hi Bena & Angel..
Starting Monday, we gotta JIAYOU to manage our own baby. Pray hard that everything will be fine.

Hi peapod..
I will only accept my PIL's help if I really cannot manage. By hook or by crook, I have to bbe independent. Once they start to interfere, there will be no ending.
I am glad to hear that u r doing well with your PIL.

Hi Voice,
I hope things will improve after my mum left.
 
Hi Emily
Am sure you will be able to manage just the same as me. Baby at this stage sleeps most of the time, so no worries about having to fuss over them except for the occasional cranky acts they will display.
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Bena: You wont believe this but i am extending my massage by 4 days. But its more of scrubbing my body now and wearing a corset at most.
 
Atinarin, you must be enjoying the massage! I actually don't miss mine at all. But sigh my tummy so big.

Blueskye, I wonder if it's a good idea to warn other mums abt your CL. There's a thread that lists a blacklist of CL on this forum..

Baby was on my breast for almost 2 hrs just now. I think he's really going through a growth spurt. Either that or something is wrong with my supply. I haven't been able to pump anything out after latching him. Could be the preparation of his full month giving me a little stress..
 
Hi bluesky,

Are u willing to disclose the name of yr CL? My personal opinion, that u shld not condone her mistake so that she will carry on her 'deeds' with all MTB.
 
Hi Emily,

My bb now wanted to me to carry almost 24hrs. He couldn't be pacify in any other means! I'm going crazy already at home. Managed to steal a few hours of rest only when he sleeps. Gosh...

Today, i kena down with fever and unable to breast feed my boy. Luckily i've managed to pump some milk reserve.. but worried that my fever will pass to my boy
 
Hi atinarin,

Care to share your massage lady contacts? I undergone C-Sect that's Y now then i source for one.

Thanks in advance...
 
Baby just refuse to sleep. No amount of carrying works. He'll cry even when I carry him or rock him. Only when I put him to my breasts then he'll stop. But my mil can pacify him! Even my hubby can do a better job pacifying him..Help!!
 


bb4339

could ur bb be colic?? u try to burp him. or is he hungry??
last time my bb also like tat. then my mil burp him if not put him lye down on ur chest.
 

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