No intimation or sex after having children

Thanks moorspa,
Feels really good after getting your advice. After all these years I thought I have gained my DH respect but in fact I have not.
All I think abt is my kids happiness, n how to create a happy family for them to grow up in. I tried to avoid confrontation n arguments wif their dad. I think it's time for me to be a little bit selfish n start to make a stand for myself. I think I have to start thinking of ways to make that happen.
Thanks moorspa for the inspirational advice. Another wake up call for me! I guess marriage is a journey for me, n when I thought I have reached the destination for happiness, it's not. I still have a lot to learn. I'm ready to carry on wif the journey n I'm packing my bag wif new things I've learnt.
 


Hi taitai,
I think u have gone through so much n still standing strong. I really look up to u n wonder how u r able to cope wif all the heartaches.
 
Cindy,

You are welcome, yr marriage can still be improved and a lot of unhappiness can be prevented. I only get to know all this by researching the Internet and learning more in the forum after being betrayed. I also thought I had a problem, only to learn much later that he was the problem cos he has been taking our problems so lightly that he ignores it completely. I put myself first now, for mine and my kids' sake.

Things can improve as long it doesn't reach to the point of no return. Jia you.
 
Cindy

Don't think so highly of me. Cuz no women should be like me.

That's why i say I am mad, mentally unsound to withstand all these s**t.

NO WOMEN SHOULD TOLERATE THEIR HB WHEN THEY STRAY.

Cause these men will do it again and again and again. It gets into you, and after awhile you feel numb, and take it that this is life. And have no drive to do anything about it.
 
My Husband all along not very keen but at least still have intimacy once every week. But due to the past 2 yrs with lots of disagreements & arguments, it has greatly affected our relationship.
Initially, i am the one who always mention want to divorce (i din really meant it then, just say it out of anger).
Lately whenever we argue, his turn to say wants to go for separation.
Sigh, why is it so difficult for 2 person to live and stay together peacefully?
Life is so different from those courtship days where whatever the girl says, the boy will obey and follow.
After marriage, communication tend to breakdown easily and message cannot convery across "properly".
I think its becoz we tend to take things for granted and we have more expectations till we have forgotten how to respect each other feelings.
Sigh, life is never easy, to maintain a happy marriage life is very tough!
 
I was never a big fan of Korean dramas.

But lately, I am so caught up with this drama that is shown on Channel 8 at 11pm, from Monday to Friday.

OMG! This drama struck a chord in every woman's heart, I tell you. Especially those women whose husbands have strayed or suspect their men are having affairs.

Really a good show. And it also show how a betrayed wife could stand on her own feet.

Anyone here watching this?
 
Cindy,

I agreed tat when we lose the 'fats' and become slim again after childbirth, we do not only regain our confidence but also gain our hb attention coz human esp guy hv an eye for beautiful things.

I also noticed that after I slim down and trim away my tummy last year and maintain till now he start to be kan cheong over my whereabout.

;-)
 
mememe.. i'm watching this show... my first korean drama i've watched.. cos i not so keen in K culture.. lol.. very funny show.. but it reflects what they say... When women starts loving themselves more, their hubby will respect and want them more.
 
Yes, this drama is a wake-up call to many women here. But most importantly, it warms my heart and sort of teaches me how to walk out from the darkness.
 
Hi Diana,

Ya. I mean guys really like to look at pretty women. But sometimes I found myself starring at pretty women too. I especially admire those mummy who can still look so good n wif children. I always wonder how they could maintain those hot figure after childbirth. Child birth so 伤身. N together wif age, so difficult to maintain. Must work extra hard.
 
Hi taitai,

The drama wat title? I would love to watch it too. Wonder if I could get the whole drama set from DVD shops already?
 
All humans like beautiful things, it is only natural that we are drawn to beautiful things. However, if a man who is in a marriage let his attraction to beautiful women go over the boundaries and gets into affairs, I think he is not mature and responsible for his actions as it affects the whole family.

Ageing is part of a natural process, even beautiful women ages and do not look as attractive as they were in their younger days. If a man truly loves his woman, the love goes beyond the external shell of a person. It is sad that people of this century are getting more superficial, and it is not cheap to maintain youth and beauty. It also goes to show that people cannot accept change and aging, which is just part of a natural process. I always envy old couples who holds hands and find it very touching, as they must hv gone through a lot in their marriage and still stayed by each other. Just my thoughts, I feel a person should slim down for health reasons and not to retain a man's heart.

Like what other mummies have mentioned to love yrself, when you take care of yr health( emotional, mental and physical), your skin will glow naturally. That would be natural beauty.

I hv also watched a few k dramas on KBS channel regarding husband cheating on wife. These dramas inspire me and I can relate to them, some Korean dramas are very touching and they hv made me cried a few times. I am a big fan of k dramas.
 
Tai tai,

I read yr story in the other thread and can understand yr situation. Pls stay strong for yrself. You are very tolerant of yr husband for the sake of yr kids. Pls be positive and be happy despite of yr husband's behaviour. Try to think of an alternative solution when things get too hard, whether to leave a marriage (with planning) or separation.

I was in a similar situation, tolerating my husband's neglect even after he betrayed me, all for the sake of my kids til I can no tolerate anymore. I gave too much for the sake of my kids and decided it is enough. I decided to self separate from my husband who agreed to give myself peace and recover from the emotional stress. This time I am doing it for myself, no longer for anyone.

I felt better as I am able to do what is beneficial for me for the first time. It has been a long time to do something for myself. I realized the path I choose to stay strong for the sake of the kids does not make me strong but built more resentment in me. I learnt that I hv to draw boundaries in order for me to be happy. We hv a choice not to let people take us for granted, cos most people do not realize when others take us for granted, it is cos we allowed them to.

Try to look back what went wrong with yr marriage and you might be able to find an answer. There must be a reason why yr husband do not hv interest in you. Could he be having a medical problem? Hv you thought of that? He could be having low self esteem that he might not be able to please you in bed.

Are you sure he is having an affair as you hv not found concrete evidence that he is straying? Men hv big ego and most of the time they don't tell the wives abt their medical problem, which may lead to misunderstanding.

From what you mentioned in yr previous posting , you did not mention that you found out that yr husband has cheated on you. So I presume you are just suspecting.It is better to find the root of the problem than thinking that he could be betraying you.

I saw a similar situation in my mum. I always thought she is unhappy cos my dad used to verbally abuse her. Only through my betrayal, my mum revealed her secrets unintentionally. She has not been happy in her marriage cos she is always suspecting my dad is sleeping around even though she has no proof. She chose not to find the truth cos she is afraid she can't handle the truth. She married my dad knowing that he two timed her resulting her insecurity in the marriage. I was so shocked n feel cheated cos she always portray herself as a victim n always telling me she is worse off than me. I can't believe she lived her life like that, and from then on I do not listen to her advices cos I do not want to live my life like she did. I was not happy in my family cos my mum was not happy and depended on her kids to make her happy, which is not healthy. You may think it is fine to sacrifice yrself for kids now, but how for how long can you live like that? Most importantly, you must be happy for yrself first.

If u treasure yr marriage, then you need to find the root of the problem. You need to be happy for yrself as I am sure yr kids would like you to be happy too. They would not want their mum to be unhappy for their sake when they grow up. If you read those MIL problems, I believe it all starts from their unhappy marriage and they are emotionally attached to their sons. MIL feel threatened when her son is married and thus causing all sorts of problems for the DIL. If u see the big picture, it is a vicious cycle. If the husband cannot satisfy a wife's emotional needs, the kids will be the one to take up the role instead. Therefore, a woman has to be emotionally independent to be happy for her whole life.
 
Hi moorspa,

Really inspiring story. But I think finding the root of problem is so difficult when the other spouse doesn't want to do anything or see the fault in themselves.

Yesterday nite jus had a good conversation wif my husband. After weeks of bottling up my emotion, I broke down. Devastated. My husband doesn't seem to realize that he is at fault. He found nothing wrong taking other women's phone no. Instead, he told me he is not doing anything to cheat on me. N I do not have proof too. He jus took her no. For fun. That's all. Not a very satisfying answer for me.

I told him I'm dun feel respected at all n I need him to change. He told me he did nothing wrong, what is there to change? N he said about how I kept repeating myself about respect, aren't I sick of saying that?

I guess nothing can be solved rite now. I just re-lived the fight we had years ago. N I m hearing everything he had answered me before years ago. Now I'm re-living the devastation. Worse of all, I thought I have finally got happy n settled the situation after the previous fight, I'm wrong, the problem still persist. It's jus that it is hidden.
 
Cindy, I am unsure of the title. I just stay tune every week night on Channel 8, from 11 to 12.

Moorspa,

Thank you so much for your advice.

I do not wish to go into details. But can confirm that my HB has betrayed not once but countless time. He nearly gave up the marriage because of a third-party.

You know, I agree every single thing you'd told me. In fact, some experts said the same thing too. But I am just so weak to do it. I don't even know where to begin. The thought of not seeing my kids hurt me so badly. Cause it is them that make me feel like going home everyday after work. I feel happy sleeping with them, their warmth make me feel strong. Every morning, I prepare them for school, and wait for the bus to pick them up. Their innocent smiles, and kisses in the morning, make me happy.

It gets really lonely, when they sleep. They sleep much earlier than me. Week nites are still fine, I'd got my Channel 8 drama to watch and then off to bed.

Weekends are the toughest. I have nowhere to go and nothing to do after the kids sleep. Sometimes read a little, if I am lucky, can still manage to find a couple of friends to have a couple of drinks. But that's very rarely.

My circle of friends have literally diminished. Some are posted overseas, some are happily married with HB, some are too tired due to work and kids. I can understand ... I am just the odd one out.
 
Taitai, Cindy,

I have the similar experience what the two of you are going through. It is tough to find the root of the problem when the spouse doesn't acknowledge it. However, if the communication doesn't stop completely, there is still hope. It took me years to find out the root cause with so much emotional stress, and i learnt a lot during the journey of finding the truth. It is not an easy process but it toughens you up.

It takes a lot of willpower to detach yrself from the marriage and focus on yrself. It takes time and u can adapt. I feel lonely too, when my kids are asleep. I want to improve myself and my life, that is not to focus too much on the marriage since it is not showing progress despite of what I hv done.

If you read up on marriagebuilder website, it helps you to see things in a different perspective. Another website is thedailylove.com , you will be inspired by their daily email if you subscribe to them. Subscription is free.

Marriage is a long and tough journey. If you want to keep the marriage, do not allow yr spouse to betray you again. There should be boundaries set, no matter what do not allow yrself to be disrespected. That is why i decided to separate from my husband even though my kids miss him. I need to heal myself first, so that i can take gd care of my kids. Sometimes talking may not work, only actions can do the work. For me, I hv reminded my husband many times of how he has hurt me. I hv learnt to communicate and express my feelings more effectively, through reading on marriage on the Internet and knowing my rights. Being too nice to yr spouse just makes him take you for granted even if you are angry, cos he knows that you will be fine again after a while. Know yr spouse weaknesses, cos my husband know me better than I know myself. After so much has happened, I start to understand why my marriage fell apart. I did not understand myself and my spouse very well, now things are different and I am not as ignorant as before. It really helps to know yrself and yr spouse better, the answers will slowly come to light and you will know how to throw questions at yr husband until he doesn't know how to answer. You would need to figure it out yrself.

If yr husband still don't understand, always ask him would he accept you doing the same thing to him? That is what I always ask my husband, it takes men a long time to wake up cos they are not the one hurting. If you feel you hv done enough and feel it is time to leave the marriage, and it has become the last resort, then leave without regrets. Sometimes some marriages are not meant to be, and it is not yr fault.
 
sigh... I had the same issue, but reversed.

we have two kids, and my wife is not interested in intimacy anymore. don't allow me to touch her or kiss her... always the same excuses, tired.. but she can watch online drama until 2am in the morning...

has been a long while (cannot even remember) that we had one... bought her flower... and she is happy... when i tried to kiss her, she said, she felt sad, because I bought her flowers with a reason behind...

have talked many times, but she kept on avoiding the topic...

so, am I married into a sexless marriage? If i knew it will me a sexless marriage, I would rather be single!

am seriously consider alternative options now before i got totally insane. She just don't understand that, sex is a need, and NOT always just a want...
 
Confused

I agree that having sex is a fun thing, that engages two people who love each other. Of course, nowadays people do it for other purposes.

But a married couple in my opinion should have sex at least once a week. My HB can go sexless for weeks WITH ME. So, I long suspected he seeks other alternatives.

So what I am still attractive and desirable in other men's eyes. My HB can be bothered with me.

What an irony.
 
Taitai

indeed... I don't want to seek any alternative... as I have two kids, and I still love my family.

But, honestly, I am not sure how long I can take it...

it's irony...
 
Confused,

Hv u thought of what yr wife wants instead of what u think that sex is necessary for a marriage? From what u described, yr wife's emotional needs seemed not to be met. If u are able to meet her emotional needs daily, she will slowly open up to sex. What she needs now is emotional intimacy, not physical intimacy.

If her needs are not met, yr needs won't be met either. It is a give and take but a lot of men don't seemed to understand. When a woman's emotional needs are not met for a long duration, she do not feel loved and she would feel used if her husband wants to hv sex. If both spouses' sexual needs are their first priority, then it would not be a problem.

If I am not wrong, she wants romance now without the physical intimacy. You hv to warm up to her slowly or probably ask her if it is ok to kiss her, if u do not know what she wants. Communication is still the key, and take this time as a courtship period to know each other more.
 
Moorspa,

Thank you for spending your precious time for the reply. much appreciated. =)

may I have some example on emotional need? I am happy for people to call me stupid or idiot, if I can get some answer out of this.

Totally agreed that the romance has totally died off after the born of the 2nd child, not that we do not have to get away just both of us, just it is not possible to do so.

She is a caring mum, and wouldn't allowed anyone other than both of us to take care of the kids.

Did open up conversation on what she want etc... about sex too, she just changed topic, or too lazy, next time...

maybe I will describe a little bit of our routine as well... I got home from work, I will cook, clean up dishes, play with the kids, and settle them down to bed... then a little bit of time for ourself, to watch some tv, massage her, as she always demands it... and that's basically our routine...

Need to agree with you that sex "might" not be necessary for a short time period, but, if it became long term, I think it will became an issue.

I think i will get shot by lovely mums here for the following comments, but I will take my chances... =P

Am sure man needs to take care of wife emotional need... how about man's emotional need too? initiate (begged!) the intimacy for the last whole year... always get shut out... how is that going to impact my self confident & dignity?

I even gather that...
If men doesn't want to intimate with the wife is the men problem... he need to tune up!

If the wife doesn't want to intimate with the husband, is the men problem (too)... he needs to warn her up...


ps: please don't send me hate mails!
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I am just voiced out what I had in my mind... and now felt abit better now.. =)
 
Hi confused,

I think you are doing fine as a husband cos you really help her out a lot as compared to my husband. Do you do all the household chores with initiative or does she need to remind you?

Emotional needs like asking her how is her day, is more like showing her concern and knowing how she feels, remembering the little things she said and helping her do things without being told etc. Does she look happy to you? What I find peculiar abt yr wife is why is she avoiding the sex topic, cos if she don't openly discuss this issue then it will cause a problem in yr relationship. Could it be she is insecure of her body, thus avoiding you? There are many reasons why she is avoiding sex, if it is not an emotional problem then it could be she is not confident of her body, as she has given birth to 2 kids. You hv to try to get her to talk why she is avoiding you. Does she feel secure in the marriage? Do remember empathy is very important to women, google on this word if u do not know what it means.

You might want to read this link http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3400_lovebust.html which I find it very useful in salvaging marriages.
 
Moorspa,

you are a star! will read up the marriage builder thingy tonight.

No, she don't have to remind me, as it became... somewhat my task to complete at home.

you might be right, she is might not feeling confident about herself... but, have told her honestly, I don't care. to me, no different, she still very attractive.

secure about the marriage.. that I am not sure.

sincerely appreciated your reply. you have a good day. =)
 
Btw, I forgot to add on physical intimacy should be natural and spontaneous, and not to be begged. It should not be " I want to do it or I need it", then it becomes an expectation. There should not be an expectation that sex is needed weekly or twice a week, for example. There should not be a fixed equation for sex in the marriage. I feel there is so much talk abt the expectation of sex in a marriage that it either has to be weekly or bi weekly or monthly, it kills the mood instantly.

If the mood is not there, yr wife just doesn't want it. You need to respect her wishes, hv you ever self reflect why she has avoided physical intimacy altogether? There is certainly a reason and u are the only one who should know her best, I feel u lack empathy as with all other men. You need to start observing her as well and court her again. If a woman is in love, feels loved and appreciated, she does not avoid physical intimacy. If sex has become a routine, then you need to re examine yr marriage. I don't understand those marriage or sex counsellors quote sex to be a routine and necessary thing in marriage, I think they mislead married couples. I think all those statistics are bullshit. How can you measure love and sex in a marriage?

Confused,

No matter what, the marriage has to be balanced to last if it is lopsided, then resentment n unhappiness will brew slowly til it becomes unresolvable. It is better to nip all problems in the bud.
 
I hate to be a wet blanket to all the ladies here.

Confuse, you are one man I have met over the many years, who knows how to respect your wife. In fact, men like you are near extinction already.

Find out the cause of your wife's rejections by going straight to the point, firmly but affectionately.

I mean as woman, you should jolly well know that a perfectly normal man cannot go without sex beyond 10 days. That's a fact.

Get this in your brains ladies, and stop playing hard to get. If you don't want your men to stray, especially unvoluntarily.

Be nice to your men, even if you do not feel like it and be open and honest what is wrong.
 
Sorry taitai, but you do not seem to understand that sex is not everything in a marriage. What is a fact that a man can't go without sex for 10 days? Another statistics again. Sex is all in the mind most of the time, and hormones do affect it.

Women playing hard to get, if husband do not understand the wife, how can the wife make love with him? For example, if a man has erectile dysfunction and the wife has high sex drive. So does she stand by him and support him or she choose to satisfy her desire by sleeping with another man? It is the same vice versa. Sex is a small component of a marriage. You seemed to suggest that most men who may stray involuntarily are due to wives not satisfying the husbands' sexual needs. Well, it is more than that. As what I hv read, even gd men in happy family also cheat should the opportunity arises. It is abt resisting temptations and remembering not to break up yr own family. It is a commitment and responsibility to yr family.
 
i agreed with moorspa. the fact that a man can't go without sex is YOUR fact and nobody else.

Sex is not all in a marriage. It you should ask me, committment and responsibility is more impt than Sex in a marriage. WIthout the former, your marriage is gone. WIthout the latter, you both still survive.

Sex is impt i agreed. But at least it doesn't take up a very huge part in my marriage, for me to be concern about.
 
Moorspa

I am in for what you have said. But sadly, that's a practical fact.

Sex is not everything in a relationship, but it is important. So, it's good to resolve all issues by being open from both parties.

As a woman, sadly again - unfair as it is seems and real, we are in a disadvantage position, needs to be aware that men needs to be satisfied.

And yes, you are correct to point out that some men despite being happily married still get themselves involve with other women when the opportunity arises.

But in Confuse case, he's rare. He respect his wife, loves his wife ... and is being open with his needs. His wife on the other hand, should be a little aware of this, and get out of her shell to discuss with Confuse, what is wrong.

I have come across way too many stories when men stray be it they are good husband, bad husband etc etc .... with the temptations that is available outside. Women who sadly are in the weaker position need to be a little pro-active, and don't give the men an excuse to stray.

Yes, you may think that I am sexist. But as women that is our disadvantage. In the end, it's either we stay or leave due to our men infidelity regardless of the real reason behind it.

Confuse' wife has a choice. Many outside are not even given a choice, and mother of all sadness, being a good wife/mother, and still being betrayed for no good reason.
 
moorspa, taitai, mrsngpk,

sorry for getting you ladies to argue on this issue.

Taitai, I am neither rare nor near extinction!! but, i would take that as a compliment... =) thank you. There are alot of guys with the same situation, and I even heard "if i knew marriage mean less or no sex... do you think i will walk into one?". But, men can go without sex for more than 10 days... that's for sure, really depends on individual... men have high and low sex drive individual... and similar to women as well.

mrsngpk, sure. no fact that men can't go without sex... is true. But, speaking for myself, i think it is a time bomb. I am sure deep inside you, you know is true. women have hormones, and so do men... totally agreed with you, without sex human will survive
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. is funny that you brough this up, as i saw a statement no long ago, a wife tell the husband, without sex, you will NOT die... and the husband reply, true. Without shopping you WILL NOT die too... you might be differnet to other ladies... not suggesting, but, how would you feel if you didn't have any sex for a duration of, say 3 months... how would you feel?

moorspa, as always, thanks for the tips. =) am sure making notes of it (I really think you got some very good point there). But may I disagree with you on "cheat should the opportunity arises"? well, not ALL men will cheat... if he's sexually satisfied, he can resist against temptation, overall, family is important as we all know... but, if a men is strayed for say nearly a year... just a bit of temptation will became hard to resist.

I am just very normal person, i actually need to workout to drain off my energy... and I think my body or mind can tell the different between want or a need. =)

maybe.. let's think from Taitai's point of view, if you were in her situation, she remind faithful, and husband just not interested in her at all... what would you do? i guess, my main question is, as a healty person... how long... can you go without having sex?

honestly, thank you for moorspa and Taitai for the reponse.
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Confused,

We are sharing different point of views, cos one do not go through a lot of life experiences. We learnt more through sharing. There is no definite right or wrong when a person cheat as it could be due to many reasons. I was cheated by my husband. He chose to visit prostitutes as an escape away from stress which I got to know this year, it has been more than 2 years since the day i found out his betrayal. For the past 7 yrs of marriage, he was never there for me emotionally esp during my 2 pregnancies which I needed his support very much.

Frankly speaking, I felt alone for these 7 yrs but I hv never thought of getting another man to give me the support that I needed. Seriously, if my husband couldn't fulfill my needs, I should be looking elsewhere. I still want my marriage and improve things, I even tried not to ask for communication til it is zero now. Despite communicating to him on many occasions on our problems, he simply ignored me. I endured til I could not anymore. Being betrayed, he didn't comfort me and I hv to endure all the emotional pain of betrayal and neglect myself. Really, I hv lost the will to live but for the sake of my 2 innocent children, I still hang on to live.

When I told my friends abt my situation, the first thing that comes to their mind is I didn't fulfill his needs, but what abt mine? Those who did not go through betrayal, do not know the immense pain that one goes through, and it is for life. I hv never rejected him and always try to make him happy, in the end what do I get in return? I am hurt, so hurt that I wish I could die. I tried to be strong for my kids til I hv nothing left for myself. I tried forgiving him but I couldn't, everytime I feel used when he is trying to be nice to me cos he just wants to sleep with me. I can no longer love him the way I did before, cos he was never there for me during the time after the betrayal. Things are even harder for me as I hv no family support.

If a person really treasures his family, he/she should never do anything to break it. Once the trust is broken, it'll take great efforts to mend it back. Til now, he has not done anything to mend it simply he takes me for granted, cos we are still married. For me, sex bears no meaning at all when the love is gone.

Btw, I didn't say all men cheat, I still believe some men will stay faithful in a marriage. I am saying a man cheats doesn't mean a he is unhappy with his wife. If you read more on cheating in the Internet, you will know what I mean. There are professionals setting up websites sharing info which has educated me a lot on marriages. There really is no foolproof marriage, there will always be obstacles or temptations for a couple to overcome during the time of weakness.
 
Well say Moorsa.

Excuse me Mr Confused..
I didnt mean to say No Sex wont die! Someone mentioned men cant go without sex for more than 10 days. So what does it means? Men go without sex for the 11th day will die? or Stray?

i've mentioned that SEX is impt in a marriage. but it doesn't mean it is everything in a marriage like how someone puts it in their way.

Btw, without shopping, i think my hubby die first... because i shop mostly for him and my kids
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Well, after reading Confuse ordeal. I realised that I am married to an arse**** and the men revolving around me are generally of the same calibre.

I have not met a man who is so open to talk about his problem in this context on this platform.

So apologies, for making such negative sweeping statement. Seriously.

I cannot remember is it within this thread, or another thread where one member who is also a man commented about the issue, that if a wife refuse sex with their HB may suffer the fate when his man stray.

It started out by a lady member who discussed about this online sex forums call sammyboy/laksaboy.

Cannot remember the contents very well, but also surrounded this issue. I went to the forum and read the threads post by the men (fyi, u need to sign-up as a member to access the intimate part of the forum).

My god! Those are jerks #@#$%^. They really gave me the worst and negative impression of local men who stray.

Having said all this, I still feel that as women we cannot be complacent about our husbands needs and take them for granted. I may marry an arse****, but seems like there are still good men which still exist.
 
Moorspa, I missed your thread.

Seems like we two are in the same boat. Stuck in a marriage with no love. I was betrayed by my man too.

The only "likeable" thing about this man, is that, he loves our kids and takes good care of them. And the kids love their papa very much too.

Are you still with your man or separated?
 
Hi confused,
Your story piqued my interest.. It sounds like me and my hb..

Do u have help? Is your wife a SAHM? Can u both take 1day leave to "enjoy" a date by yourselves? Or just sneak into a hotel for a quickie? Quickies usually work..

I'm not sure abt your wife but i love my hb with all my heart.. He's a very good man deep down, just like your story.. He even helps with our kids even though i'm a SAHM..
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Saying all these, i usually reject my hb's advances.. I'm usually able to play game until wee hours if kids slp well but i'm usually too tired for the whole sex act.. It's the truth and he understands, thank god! But we did talked it out and compromised on quickies and pleasuring me first, which he very eagerly agreed.. I also did assure him that this is temporary, it will get better once i gain back a bit of my freedom from the kids. They are the stress that's hanging over me day and night.. So any time away from my kids, i cherish deeply.. Which i admit that it's kind of selfish..

However, quickies and spontaneous groping during bedtime usually end up quite well, though not often.. We try to bathe together, i allow hb to DIY & watch porn (sry if i offend anyone here), i myself try to watch porn/hentai to stimulate myself if possible too, we use adults toys, sexy lingerie whatever we think may help.. Saying all this, we have sex like once a month or even less which is really pathetic.. But at least we give it our all for that session.. I was feeling really guilty for my poor hb's lack of sex and he did also bring up his concern over this.. Lucky we compromised.. And becos my hb is always reassuring me, sometimes i genuinely get the urge to jump him..
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He tells me i'm still beautiful to him, he doesnt mind my saggy tummy and stretch marks, he agrees to turn off he light when we make love etc.. It may sound superficial but it helps when done and said consistently..

Sorry i can't help much.. Just thought to share my story since yours sounds so similar..
 
Taitai,

I hv already shared that I was betrayed by my husband in my earlier posting few wks ago. We are not the only ones being betrayed and there are many others who are betrayed. It is how we handled the betrayal and learnt from it. We are living separately for my sanity n he gets to spend time w the kids on wkends. My emotional health needs to be recovered and I am still learning ways to recover fully all by myself.

It is a misfortune to be betrayed by the one u love, but by finding answers to why it happened led me to learnt a lot of things abt myself, him and marriage. I am so glad that we hv Internet cos it has opened a lot of doors to knowledge which I hv never known. There are so many things that I do not know which my parents has never taught me.

I feel u shld not listen just to one member's pt of view, I hv read that guy's views and I disagree with him completely, anyway it is his point of view which is very selfish. If there are jerks, there will be good guys which I believe do exist. Just like there is day and night, good and bad if u know what I mean. Btw, hv u found the answer to yr marriage problem?
 
Taitai,

If yr husband tells you he still loves you now, would u believe him? My husband said that but I do not believe him, cos his actions does not match his words (even though he stopped visiting prostitutes after being found out). I hv lost trust in him, in fact through different incidents, I learnt that he is a selfish man, a narcissist. Narcissist is a word that I hv learnt from the Internet while searching for answers to my questions that my husband couldn't answer.

I feel trust, commitment and responsibility is more important than love in a marriage. The words "I love u" bears no meaning when e trust is gone.
 
Hi Pearly,

thank you for the reply, it is indeed very similar situation.

my wife is stay at home mum (aka SAHM?). No helper, as she refused to get one because for the sake of the kids safety, and she don't like stranger living in the same roof.

Let me explain a little bit more about her, don't want the mums here get the wrong idea. She is an ideal life time partner, she cares for the family, sacrifice alot for all of us too. If you ask me to trade my working life with full time mother, I really don't think I will be able to do half near as good as she can do.

I can totally relates your feeling that after day ends, you are just too tired for the whole sex act etc. Which when i really needs it I generally will "try" to ask for it, but when I see she is so tired the guilt will kicks in, and will ended up give her a massage instead... and that's the main reason that even with lack of / sexless marriage I have not seek alternative.

understand that once in awhile need to get away from kids =) that's why every saturday, will be mum alone day, I will take the kids out, and she can have some "day off", but normally still ended up a family day, as she preferred that way.

=) we used to have frequent intimacy, and slowly to once a week, then once month, then 3 months, then till now has been awhile... do we still love each other? yap. if you don't love a person or family, you wouldn't have done so much for them.

Please don't get me wrong I am not here to complains, but more like seeking for some ways to improves it. (and, I have noted some of your points too, which I think could work...)

At this point, still be able to resist myself for temptation, but, as I said in earlier post, if I still cannot find a solution for this, not very sure how long I still can hold myself together.

Taitai, I agreed with you some of the post from some sex forum suggested different ways to resolve this issue, I cannot say whether they are right or wrong. Some of them just

Pearly, you had been very helpful with your post =) much appreciated it.
 
moorspa

Thank you for sharing again. Sorry I kept missing your earlier posts, cause reading from a miserable smartphone is just so disruptive. I tend to read the post and cannot see the who is the contributor.

Seriously, I have not met a good man in my life. That man-forumer (khanlicker!!!!!, now i remembered) seemed to affirmed what was happening to me then.
 
Taitai,
honestly speaking, I am not rare or unique. Just normal, but funny that things turned out the way that a normal person relatively became rare instead. Pearly's hb is another example of a normal husband.

(I am going to get shot down by the males here.. but heck..)
those sex forum, is not a place for finding solution. I came across that few months ago, while looking for similar case or possible resolutions.

if you were to ask my opinion, the sex forum is nothing but bunch of guys competing, counting, show off... the number of women the slept with. and NOT actually providing any good suggestion at all. If you are looking for just sex, that's the perfect place to look for. Solution to a marriage problem? I would rather send messages to random stranger, and it will be more effective that way.

most of the guys in there (i assumed they are mature person...) are trying to compete with each other how to get random women in bed, who's the hottest escort in town... etc.

So, don't bother to find the answer in there, waste of time, it will only make thing worst. I can never understand those married men, does anyone of them never thought of the consequences, the people they will hurt, the kids, the reputation... etc

If you are going to sleep around, make it a clean divorce, and don't try to bring any harm or even STD into the family.

as much as women would like escort / prostitution business to be shut down. The reason it's one of the oldest "industry" that known by mankind was because it really resolved / prevent some social issue. such as rape cases.

TaiTai, moorspa am happy that you ladies still standing strong. =) keep it up.
 
Confused

I think a lot of pple has mistaken that prostitution has resolved problem like rape cases. If u watched historical dramas of any country, you will see prostitution did not solve these problems. Women are still being raped around the world despite the existence of prostitution til now. Khanlicker said the same thing as you in another thread and that set me thinking whether it is true. After watching one Korean historical drama, it is the disrespect for women that creates rape. If every man can respect a woman and not treat them as sex objects, rape cases would not exist. Paying for sex still does not solve this problem cos a man's desire for women is unlimited if not controlled. We are not animals who act according to animal instinct, we can rationalize and contemplate.

To simply put prostitution is one of the oldest industry is just an excuse for some men to seek prostitutes. Btw, prostitution is created by man not nature. Just cos it is one of the oldest industry, it doesn't make it legal. Countries make it legal for revenue sake and it has nothing to do with morals. Human has many ways to make others believe what they do is right, just look at cosmetic surgery industry. Creating perfection in a human body, creating a mindset of perfection and not accepting for you are and it becomes a vicious cycle. Look at the large cosmetic surgery industry's in US, they created a mindset in women that hving large breasts is beautiful and most of them go for breast augmentation. Only those who accept themselves will not be affected by their gimmick. It is all abt money if you think abt it.

Confused,
You are very rational and mature, and yr wife is very lucky to hv you. I hope you can resolve yr issues soon.
 
Moorspa,

this topic (well, prostitution...) can be a very interesting to debate.

Yes. I have heard that prostitution "might" not solve the rape cases. But, if we view from a different point, if this industry is really gone. I think the cases will increase drastically.

Not everyone can afford for to pay for sex. But for those who can, they will not risk it to go against the law.

from my opinion, prostitution is the oldest industry and alongside with food industry. The reason of it is because of supply and demand / Need vs Want. and Industry cannot or i should say, will not be sustainable. no one will do a business that's losing money.

Think of Japan as a country. the rape cases are very high, and the prostitution rate are even higher. If the Japanese government ban the entire industry? I am sure it will cause a big problem in their society.

Prostitution may exists because of men (nature? if sex is a need? that's a nature :p). But, prostitution is not only referring to ladies, there are men as sex worker too. There are ladies that hired escort too. We tend to think prostitute = women, but in real fact, there are mixed of male and female.

I lived in US for a long time before moving to asia. and yes, the ladies there does use escort service. most ladies in western country are more openly to sex in comparison to asian ladies. they can talk to their girl friends about their one night romance...

I believe all humans are the same regardless of race. Some asian ladies with strong sex drive, but due to the culture, they will need to hide those feeling / need to themself only. as people friends around them will make some unfair judgement. Imagine, if an asian lady talks about her one night romance? people will start thinking she is a slut. But if the lady is actually westerner, people will use the word Open minded...

but for male, is different, they able to opening talks about their experience with other buddy. and gets a thumbs up if they slept with many women.

just culture and different prospective. at the end, still back to the basic of economic, Supply vs Demand. Need Vs Want.

just my 2cents of view... and I could be totally wrong on this. hope none of the lovely ladies here will take it seriously and offended.
 
Confuse and Moorspa

I stand on no sides, but sit on the fence.

Both have good arguments, strong points.

My views, men who have good wives, but still visit prostitutes should die and rot in hell. Bast****! Hope they have their retribution. But leave the kids alone.

I sincerely hope that all the married men who visited the unlicenced prostitutes in sammyboy/laksaboy to be caught during the random raids from the Anti-Vice department. This is deep from my heart.
 
Confused,

It is an interesting topic to debate. Talking abt Japan, you will need to read abt their history esp the comfort women in the World War II. Why do I say prostitution doesn't solve a lot of problems as to til now? Everything that has happened now are all linked to the past and history.

To me, Japanese men has perverted views on sex and they are very ironic. I hv watched documentaries that they worked hard and long hours in their jobs, and they don't make love to their wives often. The women just accept it, you can say it is their culture but I feel it is unacceptable. Back to World War II, I hv read the history on comfort women. The Japanese empire set up a comfort women system so as to prevent rapes cases in the occupied areas. Initially, they sent their willing Japanese prostitutes but as they occupied more countries, they were not enough prostitutes and they resort to recruiting comfort women in the occupied countries like China, Korea etc.

There is a repercussion using prostitution to prevent rape cases. How many women hv suffered during those times? I cried when I read those stories and how the comfort women were badly treated. I can understand why the Chinese in China hates Japan so much.

As of now, the world is too tainted to hv the prostitution industry removed, like what you said, it will increase rape cases which I agree. What we can do now is to educate our young on all these issues, which they will hv to deal with when they grow up. I am talking abt this for the sake of our children, things can not be put right in this generation but in the next generation. I believe it can be done and it starts from me educating my kids.

For US, it has been a fact that most of them hv low moral values. Look at their drug addiction cases, rape cases, murder cases etc, they are very open but that doesn't mean what they do is right. However, they still hv good people around eg. the NVIC, Shelley Lubben on anti porn etc. Google search it if you want to know abt these 2.
 
To add on, prostitution has also resulted in human trafficking. Women and children are seen as goods(money), so where is the respect for women or even children now? Disrespect for women still exist in this century, sad to say. Without laws to protect women, we would be worse off.

People would know what I mean, if you hv watched the movie "Taken". There are women being kidnapped to be sold as prostitutes. I hv read in the forum that Europe is one place that you hv to be careful of, as they kidnap beautiful women to be sold as prostitutes. Imagine a tourist being kidnapped in Europe, how are you going to look for them as they leave no clues at all? After watching "Taken", I am terrified and realize how unsafe the world has become. Not everyone will be so unlucky, but it is a risk that cannot be overlooked.
 
Warning: Super long post.. =X

Hi confused,
U have the right track of ideas but it's a bit different from what I pointed..

May I ask what kinds of "alternatives" are u meaning? "Eating out" is a definitely a no no.. Have u tried DIY just to release? Maybe stroke and feel up your wife while doing it? It may (or may not, dont take my word for it) make her feel wanted and sexy, especially if she knows she can get u aroused so well.. xD Sorry if I sound crude, I'm sometimes too direct for my own good.. =X

Since she's a SAHM, I suggest place kids in 1day childcare (some cc provide that) and go relax, hotel (hb and i use hotel81 2 or 4hours only..), high tea etc.. Don't waste time at home.. I dun suggest movie unless it's something she wants to watch it very badly.. I emphasize on hotel cos got a different feeling.. As for me, I don't have to clean up anything afterwards! Haha.. Sounds very simple but it's a refreshing feel.. And of course will feel naughty in hotels la right? Of course she will talk about missing the kids.. It's normal! I do too.. It's not that I don't cherish the time away from kids but it does need some getting used to.. Suddenly no kids become very empty routine mah..

Giving her a "own day" once a week is very nice.. But what will she do with that once a week day? Go out with friends also limited.. Watch online drama - already watch so much normally, still watch on her "off day"? Stay at home rest, also cannot get the notion of really being alone.. It's the feel.. Not used to doing nothing at home while feeling guilt for hb taking up everything while she got nothing worth to do onhand.. Well, those are how I feel when my hb gives me "off days".. Sorry to say, it's a waste of effort..

What I think she would prefer is to spend time with u alone.. With kids? Too hectic, too distracting.. With u alone? Perfect for being pampered.. So if were to choose alone or with family as a whole, choose family better lor.. I do understand men don't get this.. My hb doesn't either.. haha.. Must explain very thoroughly.. Now he understands and will agree when I got meet ups with my friends.. If not, no point offering..
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I think sex and love must be balanced.. Not easy but both parties must give and take a lot.. My HB cut down so much on sex with me but I also give in to him once in a while, even though I have ZERO energy for it.. It's difficult for both sides but both must agree and be contented lor..

Don't argue over prostitutes la.. Pointless.. It will FOREVER be around no matter how much everyone argues.. People will go sleeping around anyway, both males and females.. It depends on the spouse whether to be faithful or not only.. We are all adults anyway and we choose our own spouses, as well as how our relationship grow.. We cannot blame the prostitutes also cos they are just earning money.. They never force the men mah.. We can only blame the men who visits them.. On the other hand, it's not a bad thing for those (sorry to say) men who are "super left on the shelf".. They still need to release somehow and at least they do it legally (at legal ones of course)..

I've been wondering.. I don't think anyone asked if confused has "dolled up" or groomed well or not.. No one suggested husband to do those to "attract" the wife hor? Isn't that sexist? LOL! Just a random thought..

Cheers!
 
Nobody is arguing over prostitution. There is nothing wrong in sharing different points of view over prostitution. Humans are ironic, prostitution is not an issue if it didn't affect them. If it happens to them, it becomes an issue. Families affected by prostitution would not say just let things be.

People will go sleeping around anyway? Why? Moral values are diminishing. Do parents want to pass such values to their kids when society/world has become so tainted? When yr kids are teenagers, would you say "That's the way society is." Just because the westerners sleep around, does it mean it is ok? With young girls resorting to prostitution to satisfy material needs, isn't it worrying? I guess most people will think it won't happen to my kids, til it hits them one day, they will wonder what went wrong. It is sad that people has become complacent and don't see the big picture, and how it creates a vicious cycle. If parents has taught their sons well to respect women, to be committed and responsible to their wives, there will be less women being hurt by betrayal.

Not every prostitute has a choice, some are being conned and trafficked to an unknown country. We are very lucky to be in Singapore but that doesn't mean we shld be ignorant of what is happening around the world. In a such tainted world, the more parents should preserve moral values and set themselves as good examples to their children. Through my daughter, I got to know that kids nowadays are not taught with good moral values. If yr child's male classmate describes to her a pornography scenario, doesn't it worry you? Too many parents hv resort to providing material needs to compensate for their lack of time with their kids, forgetting the importance of teaching moral values.

To readers who may think I am thinking too much, it is cos you don't know when I am coming from. I hv kids and I am aware that moral values hv degraded in Singapore. Moral education starts from home, not from school. School can only do so much and sometimes the teacher don't even bother to teach because it is not an exam subject, I am speaking from personal experience. I write to share my views cos I hv done some deep thinking, read and also researched a lot. Btw, I hv never blame the prostitutes for my husband's betrayal. He chose to betray me.
 
Moorspa,
I get where u're coming from.. We are all concerned parents here.. Unfortunately, how we think will not change society.. Not everyone will teach their kids like how u do.. My parents did not and i was one of those morally wrong teenage sluts when i was young, unfortunately.. Yes they are educated people, business people.. I was young, i was ignorant.. But i learnt a lot of life lessons.. Even though it was hard, it taught me to know how to find the good in the bad..
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I will guide my kids but there's a limit to whether they can be taught or not.. I will teach them to protect themselves regardless of what is it.. Example of porn being shown to my kids in future, i will not condemn or worry.. I will just explain to them in the level that they understand.. In fact my neighbours and i watched one of their parents' porn when i was in lower primary.. It was out of curiousity.. Even though we were a group and i was the only girl, at my kind of age, i was only fasinated and disgusted by it at the same time.. Haha..

This is my way of parenting so there are many different kinds of parents out there.. What your child learn from society cannot be erased at home.. This isnt abt westernized or modern or open thinking anymore, it's living with our kind of society now.. But like i said, my own opinion la.. No offence intended..
 


Pearly,

I apologize, should you be offended by my previous posting. My postings are to create awareness on prostitution and also on porn industry. However, when you mentioned people will sleep around anyway, it is a very negative mind set. How we think does affect society, it may not show immediate effect but in years to come. Btw, why do you call yrself a slut? You were young and ignorant, probably you were influenced by the wrong peers. You knew yr mistakes and learnt from it, and that is a positive thing.

You are entitled to yr own opinions, everyone is entitled to theirs too. To say we cannot change society is negative thinking and being complacent. Society and moral values do not degrade overnight, it takes years to degrade. It would take many years for the society to become better, as long parents take the responsibility to teach the kids well.

I agree there is a limit to educating our kids, and I hv been teaching my kids to defend for themselves. They will encounter more challenges when they are in Primary and Secondary school. They also need to experience life and learn from their mistakes. My parents didn't teach me much either, but I am a careful person by nature and I don't get influenced easily. Our society has become to be similar to the US, most developed countries hv these problems.

Btw, I am neither advocating my way of educating my kids, nor to say others are wrong. I am still learning, and learning does not stop as long I am still alive. You might want to read more on this website http://www.shelleylubben.com/, and think whether it is all right for yr kids to be exposed to porn when they grow up.

While finding answers to my husband's porn addiction and why he betrayed me, I found shelley lubben's website by chance. I hv also read up on sex and porn addiction. Porn addiction will lead to sex addiction, unless one can pull himself out of it before it becomes a serious addiction. An addiction can become very serious to cause a man to commit crime. Not only that, those actors/actresses in the porn movie are very badly treated. It is an industry of the rich exploiting men and women. With the knowledge that I have gained throughout the painful journey, I"ll educate my kids on all these issues and the consequences that comes with it, when they are older. When a child learn the cause and effect of things, they get a better understanding of how things work. In the past, I think like many others, that porn is common and doesn't do much harm. However, my thinking change when I educate myself on sex addiction after I was betrayed.

I can't protect my kids all the time, all I can do is to educate them, and guide them to learn to judge and discriminate what is right and wrong. Most importantly, I want them to know that I'll always be there for them, no matter what happens. I know what it is like when my parents were never there for me.
 
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