Chin Leng, PLS TAKE NOTE!!!


<font color="0000ff">Hi Poohbb,

I know you are going to target on me.

Let me explain.

I am a SAHM. The handling charges are only for the envelopes and scotch tapes thats all. My HB is not working in the office so I don't have any envelopes to reuse. If you see properly, you are able to cal the cost itself. And also you are welcome to questions any of my joiners, They are willing to share with you how I charge them. I don't earn a single cents.

As you you Old Navy, Gap, etc... items can be very bulky. I need to buy lots of BIG envelopes. Unless I manage to use a reuse envelope, there isn't any handling charges incurred.

I don't charge anybody for meet up. I come out from my pocket money to take bus / train ride you know??

PLs be fair, do not jump into conclusion before checking out. TKS a millions!</font>
 
Tktokks,

I am really sorry, I am not gng against u... =(( I wan my rights back from the moderators only..

I am also a SAHM staying in JAPAN an exp country jus askin a handling fee amt to cover back what I fork out durin the spree (stuffs that only can be bought in japan)...

Jus to share...Transportation by bus to stn can cost yen300 ($3.90-0.013rate), jus a bus only can cost me this amt ler... those who been to japan b4 sure can understand the high expenses on transportation & buying of cartons, envelopes...

The moderators also can go n check out those mummies who asked me to buy the Burberry bags how much they offerin to pass me the transportation when I share wif them the cost I fork out... they even willin to give me $20/bag themselves.. cos japan is indeed a super duper exp country...

I am askin the moderators to be fair.. I believe U understand my sitaution also.. since u are doing some sprees all along & sometimes u also are actually forkin out $$ own $$, me also.. I also feelin being unfair treated

I done a private spree of burberry bag for some mummies as per their request n i fork out nearly $200 jus on transportation for 9 orders.. if i cant ask for "handling" fee or another term "claiming back" fee to cover back, means i got to fork out my own $$ on this??? U share my anger?? I am not earnin anything as well.. who interested to buy, we jus get back the $$ we fork out from them on their own item.. whats wrg??
 
CL,
I hope u look into this matter, if charging an amt into postage are allowed then y cnt i ask for a amt to cover bk my cost from every buyer? or shld I use another english sentence to replace how i posted.. then u can accept it in overseas spree thread..

As wht tktokks say to me, PLs be fair, do not jump into conclusion before checking out. TKS a millions! I would like to say it to u as well I believe my situation are no diff from her jus that we are using diff English sentence on the thread and also both so us stays in diff country.. sgp a little amt can cover back as trains n bus are rather cheap, but not in japan
 
Dear CL,

I refer to Mrs Poh posting above and would like to clarify on this issue. I started this thread hoping to share something which i find it suitable for mummies here, definitely not out to make a profit, i always thought i'll onlyneed to place it under Bulk Purchase and pay the $25 if there's profit to be made. In my case, I'm just sharing with mummies that I saw this dress and am able to get at this price if we pool our orders. I dont incur any cost and not making any profit. If you think it's wrong for me to do so, then i'll just call it off and get 1 pc for my gal will do. Pls advise.
 
Hi poohbb,

Others' wrongdoings do not make you right.

The rules have been set and spelled out. I have even sent you an email during your first attempt, which you choosed to ignore. For further details, please refer to the email I sent to you.

Best regards
Bee Lee
 
Dear Ladies,

BP section is set up for ANY of the following situations :
a) your direct supplier do not have a website with proper company domain where prices are published ;
b) your direct supplier is a local company ;
c) you intend to recorp your effort or time (etc) spent in terms of money.

Sleepygarfield, your thread is thus removed.

BP section is not solely for members to profit. Organiser may choose to share the listing fee with the participants or ask the supplier to pay for the listing fee. The section is open for our advertisers as well to provide extra avenue for them and more supplier source for the community.

The reason of why not allowing handling charge or service fee in Overseas spree is obvious from the above postings. Who is to define a token? Is $2 sufficient or too much for transportation in all countries? Why not $2.10? Do we allow different charge for different items? These are just a handful of source of unfairness if we allow service charge.

Overseas spree was set up for purchase on-line to share shipping cost. It was not set up for members to purchase from the overseas shops and claim transportation. If you are on your way and are willing to share your car boot space with no charge, that is alright. But it is not acceptable to charge petrol if you are going there anyway.

BP and Sprees have always been under debate. We had gone through this and have reached this arrangement. This is not perfect since nothing in the world is perfect, but this is the best we have currently. The rules have set, spelled out and we seek cooperations from all members in the forum so that we have a place to seek advise, companionship and comfort while we gone through the challenging phase of being a parent.

Have a wonderful weekend with your families.

Best regards
Bee Lee
 
poohbb once again, please settle this issue with Bee Lee & CL. Please help to stop all these issue posting over here.

You can report any case to BL & CL directly.

Frankly, there are still lots of Overseas spree mummies who does not charge handlings fees. I went the extra mile to go places with my car without charges, even envelopes i pay myself but if buyer opts for bubble bag, they will have to pay.


BL: Thanks for telling that even small handling fees are not allowed. Thank god till date i have never charge for such stuff.
 
Bee Lee
Sorry to bother you.
Pls help me to amend the title of http://www.singaporemotherhood.com/forumboard/messages/590029/889639.html?1185002476 to PMM Birthday Direct Spree #3.
I clicked too fast
embarrassed.gif

Thank you.
 
hi all..

i personaly feel that if the organizers n participants are comfortable with it, its not a big issue..maybe there are some mummies who are eye sore abt it..hence there will be no end to it.

Bee Lee, i think its not so nice to comment that 'Others' wrongdoings do not make you right.' to poohbb, as it somehow prove that its unfair to poohbb, why her only? does it mean that those who charges discreetly are right? we know that charging high exchange is wrong. But there are some who state that remaining will offset in shipping which we know tat is not happening most of the time. But again, there's not issue cos both organizer n spreeists are comfortable. Spreeist can't be always the one who got cheap and reasonable deals at the Organizers expenses right?

Carole, im not targeting at you but would like to highlight to you that not all (not even most) mummies are able to go for the extra mile like you and even paying envelopes for the spreeist UNLESS they are rich enuff or knowing that they are making a small profit from exchange rate from the sprees. So far, i got no problem with the spree i joined.

CL, BL.. if this is really a big issue abt charges..maybe we should just stick with BP, leave out the Overseas Spree, if not Exchange Rate also have to be controlled then. Its obviously hard to control but if this is giving u guys problem, why not?

i personaly feel that poohbb shld have her old account reinstate.

Life still got to move on. Cheers!
 
One should not organise a spree and hoping to be compensated. I guess by now she should know that her hardwork is not appreciated cos someone reported her thread.

Its nothing to be rich or not to go that extra mile. Poohbb has been nice to offer cheaper branded goods, which she went the extra mile to help others to get, but if she has been real careful with the Handling charges or even seek Moderators help to check if such charges are allowed, she will not have face such problem.

CL: frankly, eniale has been here for a rather long time. Would you be kind enough to reinstate her nick back and give her a warning? I am sure she did not mean to do it. try to help...
 
CL/BL,

I agree with tempura76 with regards to the Overseas Spree. Especially on the exchange rate part, which has also been highlighted previously and questioned many times in this thread.

Since there are so many mummies participating in the sprees everytime, why not just get them to pay the listing fee of $25? This will save all the trouble to read through all the complaints/feedbacks with regards to the exchange rate issue etc etc.

Like Carole, I too feel that poohbb account should be reinstate as she really didn't know that it's not allowed to state upfront that she's charging a handling fee. Do give her a chance.
 
Dear Carole, uniqueone & tempura76,

I really appreciated your kind msg to help me ask BL/CL reactivate my acct. i believe I shld check wif them first if I can ask the buyers for the "handling charge" for my expenses b4 i post those sprees... i might have make a wrg move.

carole, I hav email directly to them already... I also dont wish to really make a big fuss here (sorry if I had already)...

Thanks alot again...
 
I suppose I can call myself one of the more active spree organizers on the Overseas Websites Spree thread.

But sad to say, I'm not one of those selfless organizer who organizers sprees just to help others... I only organize when I want to buy as well. The few times I organized without actually buying something are when I have a non-transferable discount code expiring soon, when I have spillover orders in a spree or when the item I wanted to buy has OOS but spreeists have already transferred money to me. While I commend the efforts by organizers who organize sprees purely out of goodwill, I do not understand why some can be so 'hao xin' and do it so many times cos organizing a spree really takes a lot of time and effort....

Anyway, just want to comment on some points:

1. Exchange rate
I always quote an initial rate of 0.03 higher than the rate quoted in Asiaone.com. Cos banks usually charge about 0.03-0.04 higher than the market rate. Like some of the spree organisers, I will credit any excess towards the shipping charges if the rate charged to my card is lower. How then will spreeists know for sure that this is true? There is no way unless I scan my credit card statement and email it to them, which I have not done so cos it is a lot of hassle and I feel statements are kind of private. So with regards to exchange rate, spreeists have to open eyes wide and know the current market rate and that banks typically only charge 0.03 to 0.04 higher. If an organizer is charging a FIXED exchange rate of say 1.60 when the rate now is 1.52, then it may be questionable. Then the spreeist decide whether she is willing to join at such conditions.

2. Handling fees
I began more than 10 of my sprees giving out free envelopes, brown paper and scotch tape, till I chalked up tens of dollars of such charges. In the end, to be fair to myself, I now charge 15 cents to cover brown paper and scotch tape cost if mummy opts for postage. I do not charge for transport to meetups at all. How to quantify such costs? As to what is a fair amount, again, spreeist, use your own judgement.

3. Earning profit
An organizer can earn a profit in many ways, like inflating or fixing the exchange rate or the shipping charges or charging a handling fee. Bottomline is how transparent the organizer wants to be. For me, I send an spreadsheet detailing how each charges are calculated based on the exchange rate and also forward the Order confirmation and VPOST payment advice to my spreeists. I believe in being as transparent as possible (short of scanning my credit card statement) so that there will not be dispute later or spreeists thinking that I'm trying to make money out of the spree.

Sorry for the long story...
Bottomline is how comfortable you are with the organizer's way of organizing the spree. Plenty of grey areas... different people has different perceptions of what is fair and what is right or wrong. I'm sure there are many organizers who are as transparent as me (if not more?) and there are those who are shadowy. Just have to decide for yourself which organizers are fair and transparent and who are trying to make a few dollars here and there. Jump in with eyes open.
 
personally i agree with tempura76 and uniqueone. If there are so many disputes regarding BP and overseas sprees, why do we need to separate them in the first place? Some BP are also using overseas site. If by saying that only BP can be charged handling fee, I can only see it this way, as BP organiser has to be charged a fee for placing in the thread hence they are allowed to charged the "participants" some handling fees. Well, if that is the case, why not shift everything to BP?
As to the exchange rates, I sincerely hope that the Admin would do something about it. Now that the Exchange rate for USD is less then 1.6 for a long time, why are the organisers still able to charge at 1.6? If you really look through the overseas spree,I can assure you that more than 50% organiser is using that rate. If the organiser wanted to "earn extra money" through exchange rates, why cant the Admin charge them for the thread?
I am not targeting at any organiser or any mummies. I am thinking that since this is a well-maintained portal for all mummies to share information as well as to get together, why are there grey areas that the Admin are not looking at it?
Frankly speaking, if I am free and is a SAHM, I would organise lots of overseas sprees to avoid the payment of BP and to earn extra $$ thro inflating the Exchange rates! I will not charge handling fees cos the amount I earn from inflating the exchange rates would be able to cover all the other expenses.
All these are dollars and cents issue which I admit is sensitive. But I do hope that the Admin can discuss about this issue as it doesn't seems fair to penalise eniale only.
If by telling poohbb off with this sentence "Others' wrongdoings do not make you right." does that means that you as Admin admit that there are other wrongdoings which eyes were closed. Do you need all of us here to specify to you individually which thread should be removed? which nick should be suspense? in order for some actions to be taken? I personally feel that as Administrator of anywhere, you shouldn't be biased nor to shield anyone, neither can you solely rely on information that people feed you. We have to be objective in our doings especially if we are Admin. Further to that, I believe poohbb is not trying to prove that she is right as there are people who violate the rules too. she is merely trying to highlight why is there unfair treatment to her?
well, I apologize if I have offended anyone, which includes the Admin here. I just feel that certain things need to be sorted and tidied and that we should be more objective.
 
Seriously, I really wonder what's wrong with charging an additional of $0.30 handling fee, by which it will go towards only to those whom are opting for postage. Envelopes are a cost, so is the scotch tape used. All these are costs incurred on the mummies themselves, and I also know, most mummies do offset the exchange rate with the Vpost shipping. And most importantly, exchange rate for overseas spree is not @ 1.52. Most of the time, it's hitting 1.56 or 1.57. You can check it out yourself.
 
Let me share my pt of view:

As we nod BP section is for:

BP section is set up for ANY of the following situations :
a) your direct supplier do not have a website with proper company domain where prices are published ;
b) your direct supplier is a local company ;
c) you intend to recorp your effort or time (etc) spent in terms of money.

BP section is not solely for members to profit. Organiser may choose to share the listing fee with the participants or ask the supplier to pay for the listing fee. The section is open for our advertisers as well to provide extra avenue for them and more supplier source for the community.


If all of us to move over to BP, won' we want to make a profit too as is allowed? In this way all the spreeist will not join as they have to pay 10-20% more then usual in the Overseas sections.

Currently in the overseas section, they need not pay the $25. If to move over to BP, this $25.00 will be split bet spreeist, say abt 8-9 spreeist on the average. Which will cost abt $3.125pp. Futhermore, everybody will start to add in this charges & that charges.

Maybe for instance: their efforts spent.

Organisers will need to cut & paste, write to merchant, cal the shipping charges, ordering, calling, replying emails, send & sorting out the items etc.... Burn mid-nite oil, Get scolding from HB and spreeiest and the list goes on & on.

Look like nothing. But when you hands on, is alot of work.

In my pt of view, if there is some1 willing to start a spree, you should feel grateful for all the time the organisers hv to spend and still able to save on the shipping cos you will be sharing with other spreeist. And not to complain on how the Organisers are charging.

In short, like what the other have said, you can choose whom to join. Don't like, don't join. need not kich a big fuss.

If we Singaporean are so Kiam, how to survive in overseas? Do you nod that in States you will need to give 15% of tips in a resturant for each pp and usually a US$1.00 tip for carrying of heavy bags or other things? In Europe is the same too. (Euro Dollar $1.00= SGD $2.00) Now even Jap are collecting tips too.

I have done lots of sprees, I hvae seen lots of good organisers have stopped doing. I have heard lots of Organisers make a loss while doing sprees including myself. Do you spreeist knows? Why isn't anybody complaining abt this matter instead of profit?


Btw, There are Admin charges incurred by the Credit cards company while using Credit cards to pay for the internet merchants. Which means beside the exchange rates, there is admin charges added in.

I hope I do not offend anyone by saying all this, If I do, I aplogise first. Tks
 
Handling charges:

There are 2 ways of seeing this Handling Charges

For most of us here takes the handling charges as the stationary charges, For eg, Evenlopes, sticky tapes, bubbles bags etc...

While others might interpret as transportation charges.

Maybe we should start to change our 'handling charges' to 'stationary charges' to avoid confusion.

What to do think, BL & CL? Will this do?
 
Just to share my thoughts as well. Although I am not a organiser but I do join some of the sprees. It is really time consuming to organise sprees and I find that there is NOTHING WRONG by earning or getting some profits thru the exchange rate difference.

Imagine all the extra work like packaging and going all the way to post office to post out the items. Not to mentioned, the Organisers also hv to do the sorting out, handling the enquries by each individual mummies and liaise with the overseas merchant....etc.

I hv been wondering all along why all these organisers (most of them are mummies) actually got all the time to do these extra work for others cos I hv really no time for all these. You will know how precious the time is when you hv yr own kids. So, if the organsiers are willing to help to organise for sprees, you should be grateful and not complaint against them.

Just like what Tkotts said, if not happy dont join its simple as that.

Hope I dont offence anyone
happy.gif
 
Hi all,

Well, if organisers are complaining about all the additional charges incurred, why are they still organising all the sprees?

I went to the Overseas Sprees thread and saw that some of them have organised alot of sprees from the same website, for eg, Super Baby Food Book Spree and Birthday Direct Spree etc. Don't tell me those organisers are always getting items for their own from these sites and thus organise a spree to share the shipping charges??

I'm sure there's bound to be some benefits on their side, otherwise, who'll be so free as to incur all the charges/losses as what Tktotts claimed there was. No matter how kind a mummy is, she'll not do things out of goodwill when she's incurring losses on her part for evey spree that she organised.

And I don't see what's wrong with paying the listing fee of $25 for starting an Overseas Spree thread. So what if they are ordering from an Overseas Site? So those overseas company no need to advertise?? If a local registered website need to advertise in this forum before they are allowed to start a BP thread, I don't see why there's a difference to Overseas site? Aren't all these companies doing biz also? Why must there be an unfair treatment to local suppliers??

Just my thoughts and I have no intention to offend anyone.
 
Hi Uniqueone,

All I can say is.... Some of us are actually child at heart. Receiving the packages feels just like receiving a present, on Christmas day. The excitement we felt when we go back home and saw one package sitting there waiting for us to open it up, and to look through the contents one by one. The items might not belong to us, but the feel it gives us is just the same. Why can't we organize spree just to enjoy this feel?
 
eniale: we are all SAHM, but our approach are slightly different in views of Handling fees. I do hope CL can reinstate back your former nick too. I have seen your nick for the longest time in the forum , and do not wish to see an angry mummy over such incident.

before one asking the Overseas spree to charge a listing fee, think about the promos that the overseas spree runs. This promo for Discount like 10-50% are like as and when without notice or even advertisments. If one organiser is to run a listing fee, she will have to email to the moderators and make payment, this procedure at times take up a few days. This will in trun shorten the buying period of the potential buyers to catch such good bargains.

I know its bad to tell mummies or organisers to do it discreetly, but better than giving others a chance to report it and gets banned.

Frankly, charging a fixed $1.6 exchange is a reasonable amt. As the US rates having to go up slightly and also some calls and trouble of siting down to sort things and making sms to buyers, air time charges on mobile (for those no Incoming FREE).

Exchange rates are stated, if one is so wary abt organiser making that few cents, then, buyers are discourage to join. Best is that Buyers buy direct from such Overseas site.
 
HI <font color="0000ff">Uniqueone</font>,

Think you got it wrong. We organisers are not complaining abt the hard works or additional charges, But is the spreeist.

Like what Angelneo said too: 'Some of us are actually child at heart. Receiving the packages feels just like receiving a present.....'

If you ask me why I always doing the same sprees, Do I need to spell everyhthing out in the sprees or forum why I doing this and that?

I do believe you have emailed or send PM to any organisers to start a spree as you might have missed out the previous spree, don't you?

This is the same logic.

Just like Queen said: The few times I organized without actually buying something are when I have a non-transferable discount code expiring soon, when I have spillover orders in a spree or when the item I wanted to buy has OOS but spreeists have already transferred money to me.


<font color="0000ff">As for the Loss</font>,

we will weigth the pros & cons. Don't tell me for the hassle of $1-2/-, we have to sit dw and start recal the whole shipping cost or total amt again? I rather lose the amt and get some Zzzz.

There are also som mummy whom don't round up before paying you in cash too. eg $0.16. They only pay you $0.10. What can I do??? Run after them for $0.05 or $0.06 or $0.20?? Doesn't make sense. I don't want to look like I am so kiam.

Yes I agree with Mayng too. BP takes a few days to be organised. By the time we want to order, either the code run out or items OOS.

I also find that $1.60 is very reasonable.

I hope you don't take this to heart as I am stating the facts only.
 
carole,
Ya, I believe the "HANDLING CHARGE" are jus too sparklin... that thus will make ppl get wrg idea if the organiser's additional charge are merely jus for envelops, cushion envelope etc... thanks for yr concern n puttin a good wrd for me...

but carole, for japan yen I surely believe it will never hit 0.0135 rate as I used UOB bank, it never hit 0.013 at all.. I am stayin here & i always ned to track the rates so i am certain of it... Of cos all spreeist can reject joining if they find the E.rate are hig & find that orgainser are makin a few cents profit.. but this will again make endless arguements in future, *touch wood*.. I believe there will be alots of ppl cm n join this forum who knows who will argue again this matter in here again?...

It's always best if oragniser show her payment bill sttm jus that part of the E.rate & amt right? ned not show yr acct info out....

dear all,
I believe the handling charges if its only for stationary of envelops/ cushion evelopes, its fine to post in the spree like one of the mummy who actually posted very clearly the addtional cost are for wht wht wht and the amt (I cant rem who's but I saw it few days ago).. this would be good to avoid further misunderstanding as the wrd "handling charge" are very sensitive to anyone... it will again mislead ppl to follow & argue on this matter....

jus my 2 cents concern....its all definitely leave to the moderators to decide... but if this matter not solve, there might be another dispute by others or even new member if this time round this matter are not resolve....

BL/CL, mayb I am not in the stand of suggestin n addin any comments regarding this matter.. jus my pure concern...
 
tappin on uniqueone post, I do agree not all are so kind like some of u are.. jus merely tryin to help or share discount code... and again as u guys know its hard to identify who are "real" in heart and who are not... agree?... so its rather fair if all were to pay the $25 or lesser (depends on moderators decision).. as what I heard some even charge a handling fee after they buy the stuff for buyers which buyers cant reject cos they had paid for their stuffs.. its not nice to do this way n who will know who are the ones doin this discreetful methods....
 
HI mommies & Uniqueone

sorry to butt in, i know of 1 mommy who organised overseas BP without charging 'extra'. she even took a cab from woodlands to SK "her own pocket $$ n carrying all those book orders n her bb, hey! not light leh)
She also enlisted her hubby's help (get nag at too) to help her on her delivery to town...
she also 'suffered' loses when some mummies who ordered MIA without payments.
And she is currently doing her 2nd oversea BP still without 'handling or anyother charges (cos she likes doing it!!)

so what i'm trying to say is there are mommies who really enjoyed organising BP...
 
Hi Uniqueone,
There are organisers who really enjoy organising sprees like me especially when we are SAHMs. Cause it helps to make us sane with meeting up with mummies and doing all the calculations or packing up the stuff. At least that will help us not to become 'huang lian po'. And sometimes we can do a few sprees of the same merchant is due to requests from mummies themselves. We do not want to disappoint them thus we organise.

Do understand BP means Bulk Purchase and it means buying in bigger quantity thus cheaper price. For Overseas merchant, we dun get cheaper price by buying more so how could you classified that under BP? Moreover we are the one who wants to purchase from the overseas merchant so why would the overseas merchants want to advertise in the forum. They can do without our sales.

Hi eniale,
I understand ur feeling when ur acct got suspended without notice but think this not happen to u only. Saw it happen to a few mummies but their acct got reinstate back after their case got clarified.

Believe u know that a few mummies staying in US organising Coach spree where they also charge a service charge. They did paid the listing fee and their thread was under the BP section. Thus the moderator must have felt that ur case is the same with them.
 
CL/BL,

I see lots of new registered members riding on Free items or WTB to sell their items. But everytime the threads escaped being removed. Favourite headings "WTS/WTE" "Vouchers or Cash"

pls check.. really alot lately
 
Cl,

Just for clarification purposes:

My thread was being removed despite me not making any profit from it, and I was told i'm supposed to place it under BP and pay $25 for the listing.

If i were to buy the items in bulk in advance and sell them in this forum, can i then choose to place it under the WTS thread?

Please clarify. Thanks
 
chin leng/bee lee, i've PMed you a few times since last sat regarding my account watamommy. can you pls kindly revert? I don't know how else to reach you...sorry.
 
Hi Chin Leng

Just checking: Under the bulk purchase, why is babylicious allow to sell the same type of wet bags preciouslittlebaby is selling? From what preciouslittlebaby said, no one other than herself is allow to sell these bags.
 
Hi Chin Leng

Just checking: Under the bulk purchase, why is babylicious allow to sell the same type of wet bags preciouslittlebaby is selling? From what preciouslittlebaby said, no one other than herself is allow to sell these bags.
 

Sleepy Garfield (sleepygarfield)
Junior Member
Username: sleepygarfield

Post Number: 319
Registered: 8-2005
Posted on Tuesday, July 24, 2007 - 12:14 pm:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Cl,

Just for clarification purposes:

My thread was being removed despite me not making any profit from it, and I was told i'm supposed to place it under BP and pay $25 for the listing.

If i were to buy the items in bulk in advance and sell them in this forum, can i then choose to place it under the WTS thread?

Please clarify. Thanks




Hi, i might be able to help to answer...

The answer is NO. you are not allowed to buy in Bulk and resell in WTS. You are required to pay a listing fee in Bulk purchase to resell the goods. This is because there is not clear proof that you are not making a profit from the buying of bulk to selling in WTS.
 

Back
Top