(2010/11) November 2010 MTB

Wow the thread move very fast!! I only read the past 1 archive.. Lazy to read those before it..



Still in HK now and going back SG later in the afternoon! Can't seems to finish all my food cravings in HK.. Haiz.. Anyway some of the baby items are more expensive than SG..



Nana, did u get the Postpartum Perineal Spray? Little dreamers also have it (or just something with same purpose) $15.50 for 120ml..



Jo, may I ask what's the cranberry juice for?



Wanna ask does any mummies experience pain at the vaginal bone? I feel pain at night on the left side.. I suspect that due to the increased wt of my tummy..



Feel like a penguin now.. Can't really stand on 1 leg while I tried to wear my bottoms and during bathe.. Finally my tummy grow alot! Hope stretch marks don't come..



Tried my pregnant woman lucky at the casino today but still lost leh.. Haha.. Anyone gets lucky durin pregnant? My friend's hubby hit 4D almost twice every month when my friend was pregnant with girl..



Mrs Lee, how long normally BW last before the hair grows like before? Cos my EDD is end of Nov.. But I also scare pain.. Haha



Nana, regarding the wound for natural birth.. I read from some other forum that u won't really feel the pain when the doctor do the cut as the pain for contraction will be much stronger.. And some mummies find that the wound is neater compared to it being tore..



gathering, how's it going? I don't see any update for the last 2 days..



Whitecookie, glad that u are fine, please take good care!



Hubby and I went to temple in HK.. So I asked the shifu about our baby and our animal sign.. Shifu mentioned that since hubby is monkey and baby is tiger.. They will always have different thinkings.. Baby will the closer to me, shifu asked hubby to sing and talk to baby more before baby come out to build the bond.. Just to share..

 


Hi, i'm selling Avent single electronic pump w manual function(u.p $299) which can be brought out easily.

Used less than 2 weeks, condition 9.5/10.



Will be giving away (worthed > $80) :

- BN Avent breast shells x2

- BN Avent nipple protector x2

- Preloved Avent thermo bag, black(used less than 2 weeks too).

- BN Avent nipple cream



Pls text me your best offer.

93595306

 
Medela Swing from USA

-Packaging seal broken but not used(STILL NEW)

i am selling this set @$170

Let me know by PM if interested.Thank u

[IMG=http://www.singaporemotherhood.com/forumboard/messages/2495852/4493719.jpg]

 
Medela Swing from USA

-Packaging seal broken but not used(STILL NEW)

i am selling this set @$170

Let me know by PM if interested.Thank u

[IMG=http://www.singaporemotherhood.com/forumboard/messages/2495852/4493722.jpg]

 
Hi whim and Nana,



there is a bulk purchase organised for the bottom spray in the Bulk Purchase Section - Earth mama angelbaby products. i bought it at 40+ so its about 20 % cheaper.

 
i guess i m the odd one out.. now then i start to apply the stretch mark cream.. cos i was told that for last tri, skin stretch will be more intense and will suffer itchiness..



whim, can share the price & the shipping cost as well as the link for the thermometer? thanks!

 
Chris , bathing the bb. I still thinking whether want to buy a tub w/ backing or just get normal (old-school) tubs. But yah, think not easy to squat down immediately after we leave hospital. I’ll be asking my SO and my mom to bath e bb since I dun have CL.



Enmummy, honestly dun know how much international shipping will work out per thermometer. We can agar-agar use BP/spree’s shipping weight, but in the end, it will depend on our package. I dun want to tell u ladies a certain $ amt for international shipping and if it exceeds that amt, u all might not be happy. Will do my best to ensure all the miscell costs e.g. domestic delivery/international shipping is kept to lowest when ordering and I can show u all exactly how much vPOST will charge me, but really cannot tell u specific amt per thermometer. Hope you understand.



Bluesoda, I will be buying the Combi urban walker, but I think in our thread Combi is not v popular…. Only hammiebao, Mrs Lee and me are buying Combi (from wat I know) and all 3 of us are getting diff models.



Whitecookies, good to hear u’re out. S$80K is the hospital bill if the bb comes out before 34 weeks? Wah!!!!! Will keep telling bb to hang in there until the time is right!



Jun, wat’s ur email add? Can’t find ur email add on fb.

 
Bing,



I think most likely csect cos of my low placenta. As per my last scan with dr loh is still low n covered the delivery canal. I know he is pro virginal birth but given my condition he told me 90% csect unless my placenta move up.



I did my pap smear test last year also. But result is fine . Anyway will see him next wed and will ask him abt my condition again.



Now I see him one mth once after next week appt shld be 2 week once. Have u start the 2 week once appt with him already ?



Whitecookies ,



Glad that you have discharged. Take care n rest more.

 
morning ladies...



Hammiebao, still in HK eh... enjoy enjoy!! [IMG=http://www.singaporemotherhood.com/forumboard/clipart/happy.gif]



ya, when is the gathering eh.. coz i nid to apply leave leh..heee....



Jollymummy, i took the raspberry tea b4, the taste wasnt really great, i took less than 5 cups i gv up then i think..heee it's was during my #1 pregnacy.. forgotten wat was the benefit of it. there was a vendor who came to my company, got it from there de..



MrsLee, wow ya baby gal is really of gd size, 1.9kg.... wah!.... u got tk extra iron pills eh.. i only taking multiVit & Fish Oil gel, i tot of getting extra pills like Calucium from him, since my Cal intk is v minimun i don tk milk.



BW, still thinking, i scare pain pain leh :p

Ouch!



ya Whim, u always up at odd hrs eh.. perhaps u r having short quality slp..

i oso hv troubles slpg, but i v fast gettg into bed, but will toss & turn & wake often during the slp.. Baby is like forever moving, dunno wat he doing inside, playing hide & seek in the dark..

 
cranberry juice,

are said to help reduce the chances of getting urine infection.. so its good to take once awhile.



hammiebao,

ur trip to HK really a fruitful one huh..eat, shop, temple, holiday..jus before u pop. good one! i really regret in using up all my annual leaves for my honeymoon in march. so sian, cannot go travel. as for the hair growth, it all depend on individual. for myself, it took ard 2months to grow like 1cm long.



Shan, my bb good size ah? she seems fat, but my mama keep naggin me not to comment too much. think its some kind of taboo. ;p anyway, did dr adrain ask u abt the delivery plans n papsmear test?



Delivery @ MT A,

experienced mummies, any ideas if the hospital is goin to charge u more if u opt for last min c-session in terms of emergency?

 
shan, yah, was really quite horrible this morning when I couldn't sleep. But luckily am going to see my gynae at KK for the regular check-up today, so can come back later and sleep.



ladies, I will ask my KK gynae abt that perineal wash/spray thingy.

 
Whim, I also bought an urban walker from Combi. Can't quite comment about it yet cos I haven't used it. I just like the huge canopy and the one hand close function. Its about 6.2/6.3kg, so lighter than those european brands but still not the lighest model. So really depends on what you want [IMG=http://www.singaporemotherhood.com/forumboard/clipart/happy.gif]



Mrs Lee, yes, I wanna go for BW and am ok with 1st week of Oct or 2nd week. I scared pain as I never done it before and I find the area below now more darkened than the past. If gynae does a check, I also will feel very paiseh but no choice.



I find that my right side of the butt to the joint and legs tend to ache, like as if I am walking with a sprain. Especially morning when I wake up or I stand up after sitting at my office desk for a while. And its only the right side....anyone has similar pain?

 
Jollymummy, i going for gleneagle hospital tour next thurs heheh... but i notice u mentioned if no single bed will downgrade..that is weird cos normally they will upgrade not downgrade or give you 2 bedded but alone and charge single bed price..anyway will check in detail with them on week



hammiebao.. as for gambling luck, since pregnant, i did strike a few ibet haha but winning is only $6 or $20 that kind hahaha but the moment i told my mom i am pregnant she did strike a couple hundred..guess bb only give out small amt of wealth the rest keep for himself haha

 
whim: I also got a Combi, but the model is from old model. Forget wat was it already.Cos we felt it was pretty light weight so we got it.



Whitecookies: glad you are fine, do rest more.



The bath tub: Think mine will be free from Mount A so be using it. But i do have a washing basin cabinet specially for bathing baby, but come to think of it, its quite high up too...perhaps i am too short (1.58cm tall)..for hb is ok.



Shan/mrs lee: yeah, i usually commented on the weight of the bb also. then kena scolding by my indian boss for saying too much. she says dun comment on weight and the growth of bb. So i shut up in front of her, but i not pantang lah.



Sleep: manz..last nite was like having a karate bb in me, tumbling and kicking near my rib cage..i jolted up many times...yawns..now so sleepy...

 
Jollymum: The antenatal lecturer advised against overdose of rasberry tea. It will cause nipples to "rot" and some other infections that will affect breastfeeding. She said the best is to avoid totally. At your discretion.



Hammie: Wow! How nice! I can understand what you meant when you said haven't finish eating what you want in HK! I would have the same prob too! [IMG=http://www.singaporemotherhood.com/forumboard/clipart/happy.gif]

The cranberry juice is superb for our body's well-being- antioxidants and keeping UTI and other bacterial, fungal infections at bay. Good source of vitamins also, which helps in healing, good for baby too! The pure one is sour but you can mix it with apple juice or other flavors. Any berry drinks will be good for us too.

Ha ha...tell me about being a penguin! I think I've grown from penguin to elephant! This time round I'm even more physically challenged- sighhh... both preg are big and loud, no chance of looking like celeb! [IMG=http://www.singaporemotherhood.com/forumboard/clipart/happy.gif]



Trismom: OIC. No I didn't look at fengshui, just that we thought the date is easy to remember- so lame right? [IMG=http://www.singaporemotherhood.com/forumboard/clipart/happy.gif] Your doc super bz then you better get more dates from the fengshui master, so you can get him to deliver you first. It's really better for us also, by PM I'm wide awake already. MY actual EDD is 14 nov.



Mrs Lee: Ya, I'll do it on my own. Thanks. BTW, I PM you contact details already for the collection of wine.

 
Whitecookie,

Glad that you can be discharged liao. Do take care and rest well still.



Fashion spree,

Unless you confirm going for elective c-sect, all will have to take the strep B test.



Chris,

Not necessary to have bath tub stand. Would you be bathing the baby yourself or you have someone to help you ? Can get something like a toyogo box that is big enough to elevate the bath tub or if you have a vanity cabinet that can act support. At least the box can be recycled in future [IMG=http://www.singaporemotherhood.com/forumboard/clipart/happy.gif] think out of box.



Sophia,

If your baby is of a good size, your gynae might ask you to stop the jab at 35 weeks and let natural take it's own course like my son [IMG=http://www.singaporemotherhood.com/forumboard/clipart/happy.gif]



Bluesoda,

Which quinny you intend to get ? Personally I'd gotten a zapp but my poor son if he fall asleep, his head droop one side, very uncomfortable thou he didn't "complain". But it is very easy to manuvour. So we got another peg perego P3 which he can lie down. If it's buzz, my other friends says heavy lor especially if you might consider bringing baby out next time. Weight of the stroller is quite a consideration. My 07 thread, a lot swear on their maclarence cos it's light and easy to open and close even when you can carrying baby on 1 hand.

 
Mrs lee,

Mount alvernia don't charge you extra for emergency c-sect compare to normal c-sect but your gynae might charge higher delivery fee.



Jo,

I'd also chosen 01.11.10 [IMG=http://www.singaporemotherhood.com/forumboard/clipart/happy.gif] delivering Mt A [IMG=http://www.singaporemotherhood.com/forumboard/clipart/happy.gif] same like you, I didn't bother about fengshui, just like the date and hope baby stay in till then.

 
hi good morning.



It a rainy day today. Long time nv post le....went to KL over the long weekend and nearly cant board the plane back to SIN on sunday lor....coz Air Asia say the date my gynae date have expired according to their policy. but the ting is they check me 3 times lor. from collecting the ticket to entering the restrict area then lastly stop me at the boarding area. They went to check with the captain and I was the last to board the plane lor, with my mum and son who was waiting for me while the rest of my family board first.



However, juz glad that overall the trip was fine. Although we have been to HK and Penang wif my parents but this is the first time we ask our MIL along lor. lucky no conflict and glad tat my parents also help to keep a look out for my MIL who is the oldest among all.

 
Jovialz> My hubby seems to like the Quinny and Joolz stroller. We dun prefer Maclaren coz once we saw a couple put those grocery bags on the handle and the whole stroller fall backwards..the baby cried like hell...we saw such incident twice ..so we prefer the structure of Quinny and Joolz..

 
yesyes, though gg to Mt A, they will gv u a bathtub..so no nid to buy... TMC don hv, but i heard, TMC hor, the nurse will change baby into nb suit when u r "checking-out" wrapped bby nicely n send u to ya car... like v good service hor.. haaa so my gf was tellg me actually i no nid to buy/bring the out of hospital for NB..hmm...but i will still bring la..haaa



but like tough to get cranberry juice seldom able to find them..raspberry so jalat? heng i don like the taste, never tk alot..



on the pangtangness hor.. haa not only the wt, but oso the EDD... last Fri, my mil asked me not to indugle too much details to other..wait bby shy don wanna come out etc.. but i tld her, nw almost everyone see me will ask me when popping .. v tough to avoid leh.. haaa



whim, hv fun seeing ya darling ltr [IMG=http://www.singaporemotherhood.com/forumboard/clipart/happy.gif]



Mrs Lee, no leh, as usual he din tell me much leh.. haaa used to tat :p

maybe check w the nurses better ..when is ya next visit to Dr Adrian?

I think not only Mt A, all hospital the same, E-Csect will be more ex de.. but i dunno hw much is the diff lo... choy hope everytin as plan, no emergency thingy..

 
Bluesoda,

Hubby generally like the sophisticated design stroller [IMG=http://www.singaporemotherhood.com/forumboard/clipart/happy.gif] maclarene are not designed to carry grocery bags on the handle that's why it topple, likewise for zapp. Personally I also like the storke stroller which sit the baby high but I'd already got 2 stroller liao. So no joy, haha.

 
Jovialz, thanks.. think gotta ask dr n the hospital for better clarification. didnt check w the hopistal durin the tour. but when i refer to their charges, they didnt mention. so jus afraid theres hidden charge.



hpc, do u tink u pain endurance is ok for first time BW? hehhee...;p Actually, i went only once, it was ok..not pain,but i jus feel v tense cos dunno wat to expect durin the session. but the staff was realli quick n kept talkin to me to divert my attention. ;p



diana, wow..tats bad. dunno what will happen if u cannot come back la. so scary..



shan, ya.. the usual dr adrain huh. ;p the nurses are always busy also. difficult to talk to them.

 
Mrs Lee,



If they dun allow me to fly back, think my dad will nag non stop but the most, we stay for another day, then go see a doct to get certificate to fly back the nx day lor....muahahaha I was more angry then scare lor....coz like I say at each station, they also check me for over 10 mins so if both earlier station can let me thru why till boarding then tell me cannot right? somemore so lame to tell me the staff outside are new lor.



saw you ladies talking abt BW huh. I will likely go to do it too. for my no.1, i tink i did it at week 35 to 36, then when i deliver the hair growth still nt too long so the hospitial nv trim me again....but think this time i will do it nearly to week 37 le.

 
whim: Din ask hubby abt the gst on the carseat. But he reach home pretty early, so I guess he din kena. I'll ask him later.



itch cream: ya, someone mentioned ergocream 2 days ago. Hehe! I went to buy that too. But i think it can only be used on dark clothing. white clothing will have bit grey stain.



whitecookies: OMG! phew, luckily u r ok now. n $80k! ....



VT: I don wan lulu & lucy blooming sunflower! I wan smooth smooth.



Bam: ya, I agree that stretch marks is genetic, but if don't apply, skin will feel dry n itchy too. *heartache but I console myself that most importantly bb is safe n healthy =)



whim: do u get mc or annual leave to go check up at KK?



Jovialz: which maclaren series that was mentioned on that 07 thread. I am looking at maclaren too.

 
whim: did KK mentioned to u whether we will be doin growth scan? did u do 3d scan in KK? did they tok abt the hospital admission stuff?

 
Orangebb,

At that time, they were talking about volo cos a few were looking for toddler stroller as want to bring baby out on our own, need something light and easy to manage. But since the opening and closing mechanism is same, you should get one that can recline then baby can sleep comfortably.



I guess for newborn, one to consider beside price is weight, able to recline and ease of opening and closing and storage space (both home and car boot, normally it the whether the opening of the boot big enough or not). Personally i'd an experience with hubby's previous sedan car where the boot is big but the entrance is not so. We'd nearly couldn't slot in my GF's stroller which is the bulk type.

 
whim: ya i understand its not easy to estimate the shipping cost but tink from our thread there are many mummies interested, so i guess after splitting it wouldn't be too much...[IMG=http://www.singaporemotherhood.com/forumboard/clipart/happy.gif] i am keen on the thermometer...let me know when you are taking orders...thanks!



combi stroller

i got an urban walker too for my baby...hubby worried other brands too heavy for me to open and close so we decided on urban walker as 6.3 kg is quite average..i should still be able to manage if i am ever alone...[IMG=http://www.singaporemotherhood.com/forumboard/clipart/happy.gif]urban walker is also suitable from birth onwards as it can be laid flat at 170 degrees...some models can only be used 3 months onwards...we didn't dare to get the 4.5 kg one which is super light but very easy to push around cos' scared it will topple over when baby still very light...hahaha...ok we just being paranoid...[IMG=http://www.singaporemotherhood.com/forumboard/clipart/happy.gif]

 
Mrs Lee, I think my pain endurance is ok.....Like when i trim my own eye brow, I don't feel anything lor.... Let's go together [IMG=http://www.singaporemotherhood.com/forumboard/clipart/happy.gif]

 
OrangeBB, i think ya hubby din kenna gst at the airport la... it's abt luck de.. unless the custom officer stop & check on him.. like when gg Eu shopping, mostly the branded bags wont get gst, unless u so sway..hahaha



ya lo Mrs Lee.. v tough to talk to them hor, heng we got such forum to compare experiences & information..heee

 
Diana, anyway its a short trip.. from malaysia to singapore. i tink they jus dunno what to do ba. glad u're back. hehe! for BW, if u're keen can PM me ur email.. so i can collate?



hpc, wooot!! lets go den.. i will send email to those interested, den make appt.



shan, ya lo.. specially for first time mom, we dunno what to do n expect.

 
Dear all,



I would like to join into Nov Moms group as a first time mom.

Here is my detail.



Hospital :KKH

Gyne : Dr. C K Khoo

EDD : 12 Nov

Gender : baby girl



Now I am taking a bed rest coz of low placenta (placenta praevia).

 
Jovialz: thanks! ya would like one that can recline so BB wont be fussy when he's is sleepy. am looking for one that can be used since NB.

 
Orangebb,



For kkh if u are going for the normal routine appt. The doc can give u mc which stated the time u were there till tine u left . Normally my gynae will ask me wat time I want him to put .



Co will accept this time sheet kind of mc. I never apply leave when I see my gynae.

 
Mrs Lee,



When are you gng for your waxing? U gng to Strip rite? Did you try honeypot before? For me last time before pregnant I used to go Strip before i stop waxing for awhile. then before i deliver my boy, i went to honeypot ware their service also rather good and the gal who did for me is good too. so i am still deciding between Strip or honeypot this time.

 
Diana, am likely goin to Pink Parlour cos its cheaper. and had tried their service before.. hehe!! Any idea how much is honeypot?

 
Took the herbal soup, introduced by Jewel, this morning. Feeling gd. Taste also quite nice. 



Jolyn >> I got it fr John Little. But heard fr others, Taka n Metro also hv. So I think mayb OG shld also hv bah.



OrangeBB >> Don’t drink too much avocado. My gynae advise against it. Haha, I hv got the world map on my butt alrdy. :p



Hpc >> My butt is always having this pain if I haven’t bn using it for sm time. I guess its normal. Cos we r getting heavier mah. 



Luck during pregnancy:

I don’t hv much luck in lottery, even whn preggy. But I jus sold 1 of my stocks n got a neat, slightly over 20% profit. Happy liao! 



Bath tub stand:

I try to be creative, but can’t think of anything tat is stable enough to act as the stand. If use chair, I think vry slippery leh.  Don’t knw hw. Mayb CL will bath for 1st 2 wks, thn hubby n I take over the bathing bah.

 
Chris: re bath tub stand > my mum bought a trolley from giant that has shelfs and the big enuff to use as bath tub stand from baby. Not that stable, but we reckon we will be around baby all the time and it's less than $100. My mum also used something similar for my 2 nieces when she did confinement for my cousin. The old one more stable, but we threw it when we moved house. That one was like trolley used for those Chinese tea house like that.

 
does anyone know whether our dinner gathering is still on next monday? sorry, havent been online for few days so dont know what's the status so far.

 
Chris, glad u like it. I have been drinking the herbal soup for lunch. [IMG=http://www.singaporemotherhood.com/forumboard/clipart/happy.gif] Will be trying out to make Fu zhou Yi Mi (Beancurd with Barley) too... [IMG=http://www.singaporemotherhood.com/forumboard/clipart/happy.gif]



Me also no luck with gambling.. played MJ once in 1st trim & lost. What counter did u buy? Me into equity & forex.. but forex works better for me.. Got tips must share share... heh.

 
Bing: ya with strep B infection, u can still choose to go for natural delivery...does not mean must c-sect..just tat risk of bb infection is there, but if can jab antibotics before labour/water bag burst, shld be fine bah...

oh yes natural delivery recovery shall definitely be faster [IMG=http://www.singaporemotherhood.com/forumboard/clipart/happy.gif]..but i heard for twins its better to go for c-sect rite; i read 6 out of 10 mothers with twins go for c-sect...cos not easy for both bb to be in good position for natural...



piggydog: i think its good u ask for a transfer for seat...it will cause bad complication if we preggy ganna chicken pox..u are just protecting urself n bb [IMG=http://www.singaporemotherhood.com/forumboard/clipart/happy.gif]



whitecookies: great to hear u have been discharge n feeling fine now [IMG=http://www.singaporemotherhood.com/forumboard/clipart/happy.gif]



jo: tks! [IMG=http://www.singaporemotherhood.com/forumboard/clipart/happy.gif] ya im hoping able to cope well.



hammiebao: ya i got a little lucky when im preggy...struck my 1st 4d during this preggy! [IMG=http://www.singaporemotherhood.com/forumboard/clipart/biggrin.gif]

althou the winning is not much; struck only the consolation prize..but at least it still struck the actual 4 numbers i bought..and i only bought tat 1 set of numbers [IMG=http://www.singaporemotherhood.com/forumboard/clipart/happy.gif]

so still consider quite lucky lah [IMG=http://www.singaporemotherhood.com/forumboard/clipart/happy.gif]

 
Jewel >> U tak the herbal soup everyday? Isn’t it too “bu” liao? Someone use to tell mi don’t tak too much herbs, cos can cause serious jaundice. Don’t knw hw true though. Fu zhou Yi Mi (Beancurd with Barley) is yummy. But it is more difficult to prepare. For the herbal soup, I jus throw everything into the slow cook at nite n the next morning I drink it w my hubby. [IMG=http://www.singaporemotherhood.com/forumboard/clipart/happy.gif] I just sold Yangzijiang. Haiz…regret listening to my father-in-law n sold Genting too soon. Otherwise I will be “bao bao” nw. :p I don’t knw hw to buy forex leh. Mayb will explore during my maternity leave. Hopefully I will hv time. :p



Ahko80 >> Nt really vry sure. He did explained to mi, but I forgot liao. But I m putting a lot of weight n BB is slightly oversize. As I hv cravings for sweet stuffs n hv to restrict myself on these kind of fd, I asked if I cn tak fruits. Thn he says depend. Avocado, durian, mango and banana are some of the fruits he says to cut down. And seriously I hv bn taking avocado drinks…cos I thot it is suppose to b healthy n gd for mi. [IMG=http://www.singaporemotherhood.com/forumboard/clipart/sad.gif] Haiz…I hv to avoid even Fu zhou Yi Mi made commercially, cos they r normally very sweet.



Angel KKK>> Welcome onboard!



Next wk gathering:

Dollie hasn’t bn here for sm time…calling… calling for Dollie. Anyone sees Dollie? Mayb I hv miss her. :p

 
@ PTB, enjoy the hospital tour. I stayed in the 2-bedder on Monday and it is already very cosy and comfy...I wanted 1-bedder initially but was scolded my gynae..say I'm too rich ... haha..the 2-bedder is very spacious and the nurses usually do not chase the hubbys home after visiting hours...if your neighbour does not complain. So I am contemplating taking a 2-bedder instead 1-bedder for my delivery. I have to say that the service at Glen E is very good, the nurses are nice and attentive.. [IMG=http://www.singaporemotherhood.com/forumboard/clipart/happy.gif]

 

Whitecookies - u went for tour in gleneagles? isis the 2 bedder now very spacious? cos i rember i stayed in 2bedder old ward is quite small, when 2 families from both patients visited, its very cramp.

 
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