(2007/03) March 2007 MTBs
- Thread starter rae_cheong
- Start date
last day of lesson. no voice liao! haha..
AA: what i meant was.. teng has not developed an awareness of words.. to him it is all letter sounds.. so the word 'the'.. he can't read it as the.. he will read it as 't'..'h'.. or 'e'.. depending on where your finger rests on.. so he doesn't know how to blend yet.
what i was trying to tell u yesterday that it.. i want teng to learn the 'smart' way.. i think i have too much exposure of hardworking students who work very hard but not smart.. my sister and I are two distinct examples.. i am lazy but i work smart.. she is hardworking but takes a lot of time to understand.. and hence i worry when i see teng having to memorise words when he could use rules to generalise and infer.. but then again i know he can do it sooner or later. but i think i am reacting out of guilt that i 'pushed' him to the next level when it is 'not his time' yet.. so hence a bit KS with all these...
Huingee: i remembered talking to the ICR adminstrator.. she thought teng was 5 years old.. then kept assuring actually for a kid who just turned 4.. quite good liao!.. there are older kids who are a level lower.. so no worries.. i was told.. but of course. i need to make myself feel i am doing something.. hahah
Star/AA: yes ICR teaches only phonics.. english language.. the comprehension part is beyond a simple lerning of phonics.. coz the inference part is very important. how u see connections between ideas and such, form impressions and then come to a conclusion... is not the same as just sounding out the letters.. the basic levels of ICR. are just sounding and blend.. it is like able to read perfectly.. aloud. but u dun understand what you are reading..
huingee: dunno what ICR advance teaches them.. it is the primary skills one?
that time i skimmed thru. nvr look at it critically from a linguistic view..
so star: ur sis is right.. coz ICR, the basic levels.. can only gaurantee that u can read and sound a word.. but it doesn't gauranteee that u can understand and use the english language..
lorna whiston .. all these enrichment classes.. i think must spend time to examine what they are providing. and i think we have to be very clear about we want the kids to pick up before enrolling.. else the deliverables are not what we want.. lorna whiston. speech and drama, bulids up awareness and how to appreciate and use the language.. but i can appreciate but not be perfectly able to prounce.. so there u go
QQ: i credit GUG and PT a lot for teng's awareness of letter sounds.. i think this is serendipity.. i didn't intend it to be so.. all i want was for him to socialise.. and his sociailsastion expenses are very big man! haha. but HENG.. else now. i lagi stressed.. so i told miser.. there's no stopping me to send yh to gug..
wah. so many pple buying that han chi? hahaa..
QQ/huingee: actually i dun believe in creative writing.. or that it cld be taught.. what i do believe in is.. varied vocabulary enables more interesting writing.. and hor.. what is the role of creative writing in the current education system? i wonder.. but of course i want teng to be creative and expressive.. but creativity can be expressed through problem solving, reasoning etc.. so the emphasis on creative writing sometimes baffles me..
Ash:first step and second step .. there's a disconnect. how come read shan but teach the kid to write 的? i wld suggest the following steps to use that few pages instead..
step 1: ask Ash to describe the picture to u..
Step 2: then u enforce and tell him it is a shan
step 3: tell him more where u can find shans.. create sentences which will use the word shan..
step 4: practice writing the word shan
rest.. then another day. show him the character shan and see if he can tell u it is shan. and what shan is..
i hope it helps..
AA: what i meant was.. teng has not developed an awareness of words.. to him it is all letter sounds.. so the word 'the'.. he can't read it as the.. he will read it as 't'..'h'.. or 'e'.. depending on where your finger rests on.. so he doesn't know how to blend yet.
what i was trying to tell u yesterday that it.. i want teng to learn the 'smart' way.. i think i have too much exposure of hardworking students who work very hard but not smart.. my sister and I are two distinct examples.. i am lazy but i work smart.. she is hardworking but takes a lot of time to understand.. and hence i worry when i see teng having to memorise words when he could use rules to generalise and infer.. but then again i know he can do it sooner or later. but i think i am reacting out of guilt that i 'pushed' him to the next level when it is 'not his time' yet.. so hence a bit KS with all these...
Huingee: i remembered talking to the ICR adminstrator.. she thought teng was 5 years old.. then kept assuring actually for a kid who just turned 4.. quite good liao!.. there are older kids who are a level lower.. so no worries.. i was told.. but of course. i need to make myself feel i am doing something.. hahah
Star/AA: yes ICR teaches only phonics.. english language.. the comprehension part is beyond a simple lerning of phonics.. coz the inference part is very important. how u see connections between ideas and such, form impressions and then come to a conclusion... is not the same as just sounding out the letters.. the basic levels of ICR. are just sounding and blend.. it is like able to read perfectly.. aloud. but u dun understand what you are reading..
huingee: dunno what ICR advance teaches them.. it is the primary skills one?
that time i skimmed thru. nvr look at it critically from a linguistic view..
so star: ur sis is right.. coz ICR, the basic levels.. can only gaurantee that u can read and sound a word.. but it doesn't gauranteee that u can understand and use the english language..
lorna whiston .. all these enrichment classes.. i think must spend time to examine what they are providing. and i think we have to be very clear about we want the kids to pick up before enrolling.. else the deliverables are not what we want.. lorna whiston. speech and drama, bulids up awareness and how to appreciate and use the language.. but i can appreciate but not be perfectly able to prounce.. so there u go
QQ: i credit GUG and PT a lot for teng's awareness of letter sounds.. i think this is serendipity.. i didn't intend it to be so.. all i want was for him to socialise.. and his sociailsastion expenses are very big man! haha. but HENG.. else now. i lagi stressed.. so i told miser.. there's no stopping me to send yh to gug..
wah. so many pple buying that han chi? hahaa..
QQ/huingee: actually i dun believe in creative writing.. or that it cld be taught.. what i do believe in is.. varied vocabulary enables more interesting writing.. and hor.. what is the role of creative writing in the current education system? i wonder.. but of course i want teng to be creative and expressive.. but creativity can be expressed through problem solving, reasoning etc.. so the emphasis on creative writing sometimes baffles me..
Ash:first step and second step .. there's a disconnect. how come read shan but teach the kid to write 的? i wld suggest the following steps to use that few pages instead..
step 1: ask Ash to describe the picture to u..
Step 2: then u enforce and tell him it is a shan
step 3: tell him more where u can find shans.. create sentences which will use the word shan..
step 4: practice writing the word shan
rest.. then another day. show him the character shan and see if he can tell u it is shan. and what shan is..
i hope it helps..
Ash: oh.. .. good lah. all go learn music. ha
this yh and teng are sooo different. every morning when i wake p.. yh is happy and chirpy and very independent.. toddling and waddling all round.. teng will be grunpy.. i wonder how yh will grow up to be.. he is so.. confident.. but i was so sterssed when i had him.. i wonder where's the correlation? haha..
this yh and teng are sooo different. every morning when i wake p.. yh is happy and chirpy and very independent.. toddling and waddling all round.. teng will be grunpy.. i wonder how yh will grow up to be.. he is so.. confident.. but i was so sterssed when i had him.. i wonder where's the correlation? haha..
QQ: this miser keeps criticising the book.. he says it is too difficult.. .. my eyeballs roll at him till cannot find liao..
then hor. he go and type and print out the chinese sightwords.. and then use excel draw boxes.. and print out. i asked why so when he could just write by hand and ask teng to write in those square books.. he say like that more professional.. i was like 'pls lor.. like it makes any SIGNIFICANT difference!'
then hor. he go and type and print out the chinese sightwords.. and then use excel draw boxes.. and print out. i asked why so when he could just write by hand and ask teng to write in those square books.. he say like that more professional.. i was like 'pls lor.. like it makes any SIGNIFICANT difference!'
babylovespink2
New Member
Ash: Thanks for posting the inside of the pages. Quite strange they are showing a pic of a mountain but is teaching the child another word wor.. Granted that 的 is not an easy word to illustrate, but still.... Isn't it more appropriate to teach the word 山 instead?
It is the English word "the", impossible to illustrate, but the child will pick up after reading/seeing it x number of times.
Does this happen to other lessons too?
QQ: Hmm.. Borders don't have the chinese books, but looking at Ash's example, I won't buy the books. It's quite confusing.
Germaine: You can apply it when you're at the shop. Fill in a form.
Astro: I understand now! Hey, ayden is like this wor.. He sees the indiv letters more than he sees them together as a word.
Re the smart way, when it comes to reading, what's the smart way? I think the child still needs to have a combination of both phonics skills and memory work bhah..
Astro: On the contrary, ICR and ICR advance exposes the child to compres and compos. I asked the teacher to summarise the entire ICR course to me (and not just the part my child is suitable for), and he explained it, and HN said this too.
It is the English word "the", impossible to illustrate, but the child will pick up after reading/seeing it x number of times.
Does this happen to other lessons too?
QQ: Hmm.. Borders don't have the chinese books, but looking at Ash's example, I won't buy the books. It's quite confusing.
Germaine: You can apply it when you're at the shop. Fill in a form.
Astro: I understand now! Hey, ayden is like this wor.. He sees the indiv letters more than he sees them together as a word.
Re the smart way, when it comes to reading, what's the smart way? I think the child still needs to have a combination of both phonics skills and memory work bhah..
Astro: On the contrary, ICR and ICR advance exposes the child to compres and compos. I asked the teacher to summarise the entire ICR course to me (and not just the part my child is suitable for), and he explained it, and HN said this too.
babylovespink2
New Member
HN: I remember you said this. And the teacher at ICR explained it to me too. This is the reason I enrolled Anna. I wouldn't have enrolled if ICR only teaches phonics.
Astro, i think it is very comment that kids do not know word but know the phonics. I rem my fren told me then her 5 years old do not pronounce C as C but the sound of k (you know what i mean). Like also dunno C is c just know the phonics that the alphabet produce. which i feel is perfectedly fine cos wat is ABC actually. To us they are just alphabet which form words but to children they are sound that form words. So with my humble opinion i feel it doesnt call for a concern.
AA: working smart. so that u are able to capitalise on simliarities.. and assimilate into ur curtent understanding. therefore.. 1/2 the effort twice the results..
Ash: yalor.. the logic there a big weak.. the focus is blurred. teach shan or de? funny wor..
huingee/AA: basic levels of ICR.. i refer to the TCS and the PRP levels.. so for that purely phonics.. the higher levels..hmm. i am not sure.. hence i could only comment for the bsic level.. maybe next time i go flip their textbooks to see if go the components have what they claimed they are teaching.. haha.
Ash: yalor.. the logic there a big weak.. the focus is blurred. teach shan or de? funny wor..
huingee/AA: basic levels of ICR.. i refer to the TCS and the PRP levels.. so for that purely phonics.. the higher levels..hmm. i am not sure.. hence i could only comment for the bsic level.. maybe next time i go flip their textbooks to see if go the components have what they claimed they are teaching.. haha.
babylovespink2
New Member
Germaine: Regarding c and k. Actually I don't know the difference between c and k! We use them almost interchangeably in names don't we?
The other day I was showing anna a picture of a car, then a koala. I asked her to tell me what is the first letter of the word in the picture.
For car, she pointed to K!
Astro: You mean the way the mum on the website used? That's phonics too isn't it?
The other day I was showing anna a picture of a car, then a koala. I asked her to tell me what is the first letter of the word in the picture.
For car, she pointed to K!
Astro: You mean the way the mum on the website used? That's phonics too isn't it?
babylovespink2
New Member
Ash, RR: It's raining at my place too. Quite heavy rain some more.. I have a dinner to attend tonight, the host must be so anxious now..
babylovespink2
New Member
Hope they have back-up plan..
babylovespink2
New Member
Germaine: No leh.. Anna knows her ABCs (the letter names), and their sounds.. In phonics, one needs to know the letter names too. For eg, in the word "eat", the "e" is not read as "eh", but "eee" (the letter name).
This happens when 2 vowels appear side by side. The sound of the first vowel letter is its name.
This happens when 2 vowels appear side by side. The sound of the first vowel letter is its name.
babylovespink2
New Member
Haha.. Then the child just needs to learn the names of A, E, I, O and U! Shortcut!
Astro,
yh is fine, dun worry. confident is GOOD mah.
tian was a confident baby since young, but then she has social issues because of her own pattern. we tried our best to adjust, still left some elements that she is unable to socialise that well. anyway, improved a lot le, PT teachers said.
AAA, the books, i initially also found it weird and why teach the word gao1 before teaching those easier words. so i bought to TRY TRY nia.. no harm cause i like to experiment various ways of teaching. in fact, there is a catch after i used the book 1.
if we teach tian1 and ren2 together, it is hard for them to visualise and differentiate.
but this one with some meanings, it is ok.
i dunno which method is the best, but i was determined to improve tian's chinese, then i bought after star's purchase. hee...
cause we meet rae v often, then we can learn together and when we use the same words, it will help them remember them.
what i want is she is able to READ books and enjoy learning.
yh is fine, dun worry. confident is GOOD mah.
tian was a confident baby since young, but then she has social issues because of her own pattern. we tried our best to adjust, still left some elements that she is unable to socialise that well. anyway, improved a lot le, PT teachers said.
AAA, the books, i initially also found it weird and why teach the word gao1 before teaching those easier words. so i bought to TRY TRY nia.. no harm cause i like to experiment various ways of teaching. in fact, there is a catch after i used the book 1.
if we teach tian1 and ren2 together, it is hard for them to visualise and differentiate.
but this one with some meanings, it is ok.
i dunno which method is the best, but i was determined to improve tian's chinese, then i bought after star's purchase. hee...
cause we meet rae v often, then we can learn together and when we use the same words, it will help them remember them.
what i want is she is able to READ books and enjoy learning.
babylovespink2
New Member
QQ: True. As long as we expose them to chinese characters, this is good enough. I think for chinese, there is no proper methodology, but constant exposure.
高 is a better word to teach than 的 on that page too.
高 is a better word to teach than 的 on that page too.
AA: huh? what mum? what website?
QQ: ha.. i like yh being confident.. i more worried about teng being.. so.. whiny! haha
Germaine:I get what u mean now. becaus ei suddenly thought of a discussion i had with a colleague who sent both boys to ICR.
big boy superb. young boy got 'problems'..
and the problem is spelling..
eg: mother say 'spell BAG'
elder son replies 'ber...ahh.. ok --> B-A-G'
younger son replies: 'ber-ahh-ggg'..
but can't spell..
so yes they are not aware of word for the time being..but they must know how to correlate to letter names for them to spell and communicate and WRITE.. so need to konw match sounds to letters and communicate via the name of the alphabet.. not how they sound like..maybe that's why.. in the placement tests of ICR.. they give u two lists and two tasks.. say the name of the letters.. then sound them.. if can't do this.. then they likely put the child in a level lower the PRP
QQ: ha.. i like yh being confident.. i more worried about teng being.. so.. whiny! haha
Germaine:I get what u mean now. becaus ei suddenly thought of a discussion i had with a colleague who sent both boys to ICR.
big boy superb. young boy got 'problems'..
and the problem is spelling..
eg: mother say 'spell BAG'
elder son replies 'ber...ahh.. ok --> B-A-G'
younger son replies: 'ber-ahh-ggg'..
but can't spell..
so yes they are not aware of word for the time being..but they must know how to correlate to letter names for them to spell and communicate and WRITE.. so need to konw match sounds to letters and communicate via the name of the alphabet.. not how they sound like..maybe that's why.. in the placement tests of ICR.. they give u two lists and two tasks.. say the name of the letters.. then sound them.. if can't do this.. then they likely put the child in a level lower the PRP
babylovespink2
New Member
Star: Pls demo..
Hey I went to look at the picture again.. I notice the mountains are not the same. The first one has no clouds, the second one is touching the clouds, and the clouds are lower in the last pic.
So indeed, 山, 高山, 高高的山.
Hey I went to look at the picture again.. I notice the mountains are not the same. The first one has no clouds, the second one is touching the clouds, and the clouds are lower in the last pic.
So indeed, 山, 高山, 高高的山.
babylovespink2
New Member
Astro: I am trying to understand what you meant by "able to capitalise on simliarities.. and assimilate into ur current understanding" in learning to read..
RR: the teaching structure enable repeatablity. so that the child builds on what he knows and then tries to interpret and figure out the unknown based on what he knows..
later i go home and take a picture and post here.. 一目liao4 ran! (haha. i can't recognise the chinese characters.. but i know how it sounds! germaine.. u get the point?)
later i go home and take a picture and post here.. 一目liao4 ran! (haha. i can't recognise the chinese characters.. but i know how it sounds! germaine.. u get the point?
)star, i roughly know how to teach, but this tian will guide me. cause she is impatient. and i just read every page lor..
i cincai de la, i din even read the guide at all! alamak.
i just do whatever i want oni.
AAA, can buy de.
i see so many books, i seldom said can buy right?
so this one i say buy and TRY.
the word 的 is not difficult at all and once they recognise, they can read many books le. trust me..
this 的 is useful.
at lfirst i tot tian might just dun recognise this, but she did..... and it is so useful.
going back liao. having awfully choc cake tonight.
fattening sia.
i cincai de la, i din even read the guide at all! alamak.
i just do whatever i want oni.
AAA, can buy de.
i see so many books, i seldom said can buy right?
so this one i say buy and TRY.
the word 的 is not difficult at all and once they recognise, they can read many books le. trust me..
this 的 is useful.
at lfirst i tot tian might just dun recognise this, but she did..... and it is so useful.
going back liao. having awfully choc cake tonight.
babylovespink2
New Member
RR: I agree with you too.. I thought if the author uses "很高的山" in the last pic, he can teach a new word liao. Hahaha.. I think we're over analysising this.. All because we're trying to pass time.. We are so funny..
babylovespink2
New Member
QQ: Yah yah you're right.. I usually buy the books you recommend..
I need to skim through the books personally, cos their school's chinese syllabus is quite comprehensive.
AA: ok. i try to explain in simpler words..
we all have background knowledge of how the world works.. so we tend to rely on what we know.. to figure out new things.
say u know that ice is cold. so when something looks like ice.. u are going to think it is likely to display the trait of being 'cold'..
so put that in reading.. the passage provides lots of contextual clues which affects the way the passage is interpreted and udnerstood.. and our interpretation is subjected to our own biases and experiences.. which we then project onto the information (passage) in order to form a connection to the ideas presented in the passage.. typically u relate what u know to try to help you interpret the unknown.. that's how the mind works.. we look for similarities..
a kid who is poor in comprehension is not able to recognise and organise the contextual clues in the passage in a way which is logical and coherent to what she understands.. so in this case.. she 'misunderstands'..
that's why in my english training.. the pre-activity to the actual reading/comprehension is very important.. to invoke the background knowledge so that the kid can try to interact with the texts..
that is why. there is no shortcut to lanagues.. need to read a lot.. to be a good reader.. coz the more u read.. the more background info u have to make sense of new information, the better reader u are..
erm.. i think i too long winded again
we all have background knowledge of how the world works.. so we tend to rely on what we know.. to figure out new things.
say u know that ice is cold. so when something looks like ice.. u are going to think it is likely to display the trait of being 'cold'..
so put that in reading.. the passage provides lots of contextual clues which affects the way the passage is interpreted and udnerstood.. and our interpretation is subjected to our own biases and experiences.. which we then project onto the information (passage) in order to form a connection to the ideas presented in the passage.. typically u relate what u know to try to help you interpret the unknown.. that's how the mind works.. we look for similarities..
a kid who is poor in comprehension is not able to recognise and organise the contextual clues in the passage in a way which is logical and coherent to what she understands.. so in this case.. she 'misunderstands'..
that's why in my english training.. the pre-activity to the actual reading/comprehension is very important.. to invoke the background knowledge so that the kid can try to interact with the texts..
that is why. there is no shortcut to lanagues.. need to read a lot.. to be a good reader.. coz the more u read.. the more background info u have to make sense of new information, the better reader u are..
erm.. i think i too long winded again
babylovespink2
New Member
Astro: You're too chim le.. For our children learning to read at this age, you think they'll apply the above thoughts?
Then this means they're all learning to read the not-so-smart way?
And conversely, when someone has the intelligence in applying the above thoughts, do u think he's not learnt how to read yet?
Then this means they're all learning to read the not-so-smart way?
And conversely, when someone has the intelligence in applying the above thoughts, do u think he's not learnt how to read yet?
AAA,
hahaha, that time when is little X birthday, Xavier also grab the knife n cut the cake... so we hv little X, Xavier and papa to cut the cake!!!
Belle,
yah, i thot it's quite sweet of xavier loh, cos i thot he wanna a celebration in sch, cos everytime he ask for birthday cake when his frens had birthday celebration.
I didn teach Xavier how to write chinese leh, but i enroll in chinese class in CC n he happily writing last nite n tell me that he could write "pian n nah"
hahaha, that time when is little X birthday, Xavier also grab the knife n cut the cake... so we hv little X, Xavier and papa to cut the cake!!!
Belle,
yah, i thot it's quite sweet of xavier loh, cos i thot he wanna a celebration in sch, cos everytime he ask for birthday cake when his frens had birthday celebration.
I didn teach Xavier how to write chinese leh, but i enroll in chinese class in CC n he happily writing last nite n tell me that he could write "pian n nah"
YY,
Agree with you on reading alot! And not only do they help in language, it actually improves logical thinking. I strongly believe that the reason why I can read English, Simplified and Traditional chinese is simply because I love to read and prefer reading over watching TV. Till now I still spend more time reading than watching TV. So I believe in cultivating the love for reading first and foremost. All the rest will follow. As the idom goes, 读书破万卷，文章自然来.
Agree with you on reading alot! And not only do they help in language, it actually improves logical thinking. I strongly believe that the reason why I can read English, Simplified and Traditional chinese is simply because I love to read and prefer reading over watching TV. Till now I still spend more time reading than watching TV. So I believe in cultivating the love for reading first and foremost. All the rest will follow. As the idom goes, 读书破万卷，文章自然来.
babylovespink2
New Member
Astro: Don't think too much... For now, in learning to read (english), they need to be equipped with phonics skills/rules, and memory.
Once they're more confident to read on their own, if they cannot comprehend a passage they are able to read perfectly, then we brush up their compre skills...
One step at a time..
Once they're more confident to read on their own, if they cannot comprehend a passage they are able to read perfectly, then we brush up their compre skills...
One step at a time..