(2006/12) December 2006 MTBs

[isishui]

kimi,
i read n felt sim tia for mandy too... hopefully mandy will be able to adjust to the change slowly..

it's gd tt both ur mom n MIL will be able to help.. try to get as much rest as possible..

come n vent more often.. dun feel bad okie..

fizz,
wah... u got so many strollers ah... today at the zoo, i heard the stroller wheels squeaking.. told hubby n he on the spot tell me tt he's not going to get more stroller for PH......

 

[bobianah]

Kimi
Aiyoooo...so early this time!

feel kan cheong for you too!
I read abt Mandy oso sim tia...haiz. Must be difficult for you too. Will pray for u. hopefully Barry stay in for a few more weeks.

 

[fizz]

Kimi ah...

*Sayang*...itz alrite to whine here...I can feel yr sim tia so vividly...

As wif all #2 bb...u nid to prepare n adjust the lifestyle of #1...I realise tat our totz at tis age r able to understand a lot more of wat we r sayin than we tink...

Hv u tried explainin to Mandy tat she wil b hvg a didi...the expected lifestyle changes...such as daddy, mummy n Mandy wil b busier as didi wil nid more help...didi wil cry a lot n Mandy wil nid to help daddy n mummy to sayang him...mummy wil nid time to feed didi n Mandy can help by readin a bk by herself...

U hv to prepare Mandy on all the realistic changes tat wil take pl...n let her noe tat she can help...basically involvemt...Mbb is rite...u wil not hv as much time to tend to Mandy when Barry comes along...n u wil not b arnd when u r in labor...so itz impt tat u take tis opportunity to allow her to open up to other caregivers...it wil take time...cos u r her 24/7 caregiver all tis while...

In any case...while u may not b able to attend to all her nids physically now...u can try to do other tinks like bein beside her n tellin her a story while yr other care giver feeds her...talkin to her abt how daddy is improvin on diaper changin skills while daddy is changin her...singin her a song while lyin on the sofa...cuddlin her to sleep...then slowly wean her off certain activities w/o yr presence over time...

Hope I m not too lor sor...n jus keep showerin Mandy wif lotz of hugz n kisses...I m sure u hv already done tat...Mandy wil b jus fine...

 

[hweehwee]

kimi
take care. will pray that Barry stay for a while more.

Mandy is a good girl. She understands more than we think. talk to her and explain to her. she'll know.

mbb
its ok la. you were not expecting me ma!

i recognise meg first anyway.

LiL
thanks for the organising the pick up!

Shihui
think my boy over stimulated by those animals in the zoo, he didn't sleep as much as he does normally. sigh! super tired mummy now......

 

[momtb]

Kimi
Aiyo...take care n rest well k. Hopefully Barry will cooperate n enjoy being in ur tummy for abit longer. Dun worry kids are v adaptable so Mandy will understand one...just need to shower her with love n give her more verbal assurances. Take it as opportunity for your hb to spend more time with her.

Mbb
Kekeke...Sorry ahh...slap slap my noti mouth again

Fizz
Aiyo...where u put all ur strollers. We bot the lighter Maclaren Quest cos we often fly back to KL. Dun want to lug Peg Perego on the plane. But hor...regret getting it cos like I said it topples. Mayb u really shd shop ard 1st esp since u already have 2 strollers!

Shihui
Ur hb so funny...hint hint nia so fast already X!

Hwee
Thks for coming to collect frm my place. Finally see u n Tim face to face, even get to meet ur hb too

 

[hweehwee]

roo
wat time you pick up from LiL tmr? if i can, maybe go over again? hee hee.... looking for excuse to go out ma....

LiL
ya, i even got to meet your whole family too! hee hee....

Shihui
i didn't say onli. i also have a few strollers for Tim but now all collecting dust liao! haha!

 

[fizz]

Hwee...

We bot the Volo alreadi...at "The Sale Worth Waitin for"...anyway...the bedsheets were really cheap...but the crowd was crazy...I guess I wil live wif it lor...since I guess most lite strollers topple...itz a trade off bah...

Kekeke...now I hv 1 stroller in the car boot for gai gai...1 at home for my dad to use shld he brin Cae for gai gai...n 1 in the box which is stil sittin in my livin rm...cos no space in storerm liao!!!

 

[hweehwee]

Fizz
hee hee....good for you.

glad you enjoy all the shopping.

now me gai gai also no bring stroller liao. end up stroller is to put my handbag only. haha! now me go all out for shoes! haha! just bot another pair of shoes yesterday since he outgrow the last pair liao.

hmmmm.....out T-shirts haven't come lei. i know they left warehouse liao. now cannot track if they left USA or not....sigh! hopefully they will be in next week.

 

[isishui]

hwee,
hehe... PH quite okie.. he was so tired tt he fell asleep almost immediately after he touch the car seat.. hahaha... but he was abit cranky when we reached home n place him on the cot.. think it was the heat, so we on the aircon.. n he slept all the way until 5pm plus.. hehehe.. so nice.. i got to sleep too.. hahaha...

wah.. u got so many stroller too... hehe...

LiL,
ya lor.. hubby super fast when it comes to spending money.... immediately stop me fr pyschoing him to buy a new stroller.... he even plan to use the same stroller for 2nd one lor...

 

[fizz]

Hwee...

U can carry Tim all the way durin gai gai ah...if I let Cae walk all the way...I wil b even more tired...cos sometimes he insists on walkin the opposite direction or he wil throw a tantrum...in these instances...I wil jus scoop him up n harness him to the stroller...in any case...I hv no strength to carry him for long...

No worries abt the clothes lah...CGW cant trace ah...

 

[isishui]

LiL,
i saw u in the pedipeds thread.. hehe... juz collected ur skr n now buying one more again ah.. hehehe...

 

[dora]

Hello Mummies

Wah, have been very busy at work, ... altho mine is supposed to be a newly created position, but now i have to take over from 2 people who are leaving... altho they say they are looking for people... kenna conned... should have asked for higher pay cos effectively doing 3 persons job...
JT started to get separation anxiety after missing sch for 1 week when she was sick. This week, every morning is a teary affair... aiyo... dunno she suddenly realised what is going on I think... but the fortunate thing is that she gets over it pretty fast, and ate her lunch, and drank her isomil... she is teething again, and teething really does funny things to her. She refused her usual hard food like pasta and rice... but SHE ATE PORRIDGE!!! But she would only take brown rice porridge which I am more than happy to feed her. On Wed evening, she fed herself 1 whole adult bowl of porridge. I only needed to guide her a bit, but other than that she managed to scoop it up and put into her mouth, with a little mess on her shirt (she refuses bib since a long time ago)... wah I am so proud of her!! And she finished the bowl in 15min, record time!!! And after that I think she was tired feeding herself, so she let me feed her another 1/2 bowl. A grand total of 1 1/2 adult bowl of porridge!!!

Kimi
Haiyo!!!! Please please please.... take as much rest as possible... I know you love Mandy very much... but you have to protect Barry as well, who as this stage is very vulnerable and would need your attention and care far more than mandy. I think they would have to learn to deal with changes, although its our responsibility to make this change as untraumatic as possible. Like JT is also more sticky and attention seeking ever since I started working. Last time she is ok to play on her own for 30min in the play yard while I do my chores out of her sight, or guai guai play on her own while hubby and I have dinner. But now she will wail and cry and keep pulling us to sit beside her to play with her. I think its understandable cos she has only 1+ hr of play time with us in the evening before she goes to bed at 8pm. I think everyone in the family must be willing to make adjustments lor.... Like now we only have dinner after 8pm when she's sleeping so that she spends quality time with us. I think for toddlers like Mandy and JT who used to have their Mummys 24/7, its a big change. But I look at it positively. The only thing constant in life is changes... they have a lot of changes to deal with later on in their lives, so its good that they start young, and we just have to make sure they deal with it well.
Do vent here if you need... and please please please take good care of yourself... dun be too gung-ho ok!!!

 

[hweehwee]

Fizz
the tracking at CGW is not so good. even till now they say that my stuff is still waiting to be processed by concierge. but my credit card is charged liao, so i know the order is processed.

Shihui
i saw the pediped that LiL ordered. really nice lei! me gian liao! oooops!

 

[hweehwee]

Hi Dora
glad to see you! ya, this separation anxiety will set in later. just like my girl last time. started ok with cc then after a few days refused. cos they know that they need to be there the whole day. anyhow, good to know that JT is doing well and especially feeding well!

hey, abt the job.... welcome to the real world! haha! no la, just remind your boss on the replacements lor.

 

[fizz]

Dora...

U MUST BE VERY VERY VERY (x Infinity) PROUD OF JT!!!...I wil burst wif pride wif Cae can self feed himself 1 BOWL OF PORRIDGE...but my Cae hor...lazy to even learn to self feed...sooooooooo happy for u n JT!!!...

Hwee ah...

Yr credit card is charged...u stil dun wanna chase me for $$$ ah...how much is my IOU har...

 

[hweehwee]

Fizz
i just logged into CGW. the package reached US on 29/04. so it will take approx 10 days or less to get to me.

i tot of collecting you together with the shipping charges ma. no need to chase 2 times lor. hee hee...

 

[roo13]

hi hwee,
it was proposed ard 2pm. I tot of gg at 2.30pm as worried Denise may wan to nap. waiting for Lil's confirmation.

She is going to 'jio' nana too.

 

[hweehwee]

roo
just pm you my number liao. i'm meeting my fren at 1.30pm then going to buy something. will be done like 3+. call me and we make arrangements from there. thanks!

 

[starluster]

mbb,
thx for the pix! aiyo.. my gal look so ketot & stoned as compared to meg. my dad passed by when i was lookin at the pix.. he commented your gal very cute. he was suprised she's same age as my gal.

thanks for collectin the shoes for me... will drop by this sat on the way to zoo.

coz free zoo pass this weekend!

kimi,
pls pls do have more rest. don't exert yourself okie? feel sim tia for mandy too but maybe u can make it up to her next time.. have those special one to one time w daddy n mummy etc.

dora,
u must be v pleased that JT's feeding is a breeze now

bravo to JT n you!

 

[Mbb2]

Starluster,
where got ketot n stoned?
Sophia was smilling for the camera in the beginning but cant get tat shot coz me blur blur go and set to video mode

hee....tmr hor i got someting nice in the freezer to serve you.

Dora,
bravo to JT!!!

Roo,
solli...wen Lil msg me, i was in Suntec.
so i 55 ask hb to drive to Lil's place to pick up.
we meet up for tea again soon k?

 

[kimi]

ladies,
thx v much 4 ur concern. i tot v hard bt e whole ting n i must say all ur postings helped. thx.

i noe wat r my priorities and i'm treading carefully on a few issues, trying nt to stress anybody too much. i'm oso busily lying on my bed or sofa e whole day, plannig tings n working out solutions. hahahaha... since i can't work, i'll THINK!

i'm pretty clear bt wat i haf to do now and i'm trying to well, make e best outta e situation. yes, e optimistic kimi is back.

anyway, mandy acted up again just now after i read her a story. she suddenly kicked up a huge fuss n cried like mad. hubby had to take her away fr me which she violently objected. she reached out her hands to me n bawled like she's gonna b sent to e slaughter house. so i sat on e bed and carried her. she immed lied on my shoulder n sobbed. i really tink she's insecure. she only wanted me, like so afraid she won't c me again if she let me go. she refused her milk again and bawled again when hubby carried to put her to sleep. i had to walk w them n hug her at e same time to calm her dn. well, i hope slowly, i dun even hafta do tt. i can't immed withdraw all my cuddling mah. but she did sleep well by herself so tt's a start. whew!

i was just a bit upset but i noe it's a passing phase n din let emotions get e better o me. i can't b unfair to barry. my mum is rite, she said once i tink bt wat's at stake w barry, all e mandy issues will cease to b so impt.

my mum came, my frens came n they cheered me up a lot. helped me sort out a lot o tings. so now at least i feel i'm more prepared 4 wat's to come.

thx again 4 all ur suggestions n concern.

 

[mummyme]

hey kimi,
yeah i like the optimistic kimi! Barry and Mandy are both so blessed to have a loving n committed momma like you

Take care of yourself ya? Nway, not sure if you can get help now during the day so that Mandy can get used to you not being around e.g. when u will be in hospital and during confinement when you might need more rest. Maybe phase her into playing with her new playmate (e.g. grandma??) other than you mah... slowly slowly intro for her to get used to it?

anyway, i'm sure she knows you love her even when you can't give her 100% right now!! Jia you, jia you!

Baby Barry, be a good boy and stay inside for another 5 weeks ok?

 

[coolman]

hi jen,
congrats to u. wow u really hav a short smooth delivery. do post Hazel's foto here : )

hi kimi,
After reading ur post, my heart really went out to u and kimi. Glad tat u hav tink positively. Take care of urself and be good girl. stay in bed to rest. I will pray for u and Baby Barry. Give Mandy sometimes, I am sure she will get used to ur hub, ur mum or mil. If you need any help, do let us know. We will definitely try to help u : )

 

[Mbb2]

Ladies,
fyi.... http://service.mattel.com/us/recall.asp

 

[Mbb2]

Kimi,
JTS with you....
my fren juz gave birth to a healthy full term bb boi. wats so special?
well, after her 1st child, she was injured and doc told her tat she can never carry another child to full term.
so it's better tat she do not try for a second bb.

after allowing herself to recover for 2 yrs, she decided to give it a try.
mid pregnancy, her cervic open up and she had to go to the hospital to sew it back.
bedrest n minimal movement is the instruction otherwise the bb may drop out/born really premature.

she rested in bed till she is ready to deliver.
she cant care for her older ger (3 odd yr) at all but she still mananged to spend quality time with her ger. they have their special bonding time.

so, stay positive and rest well!
JIA YOU JIA YOU.

 

[Mbb2]

Ladies,
buy a copy of Young Parents if you have time.
Ruffybear is featured in it!!!

 

[starluster]

kimi,
how's everything now? mandy's adapting well?

mbb,
thanks for the something nice n cold aiyo.. the more i see meg, the more i miss her lei. her eyes and cherubic smile really can melt anyone's heart.

what's ruffybear featured on? got photos of roy there? will go n get a copy later, though I havent even open the motherhood magazine yet! last time got time to finish reading books. now, even magazine oso no time to flip!

hmm... nowadays forum v dead liao.. only left the few of us nia. even the more regular ones like bloom, bobianah.... all mia liao.

 

[doggiebb]

star

we are all on msn, that's why! hehe!

 

[fizz]

Mummies...

My Cae hor...has a very weird habit these days...itz extremely difficult to get the 1st spoon of food / milk into his mouth...but...once I can manage to stuff it in...itz either he wil b ok n cont to eat or drink...or he wil spit the entire feedin session...aiyooooooooo...

Star / Doggie...

Me here...Dun lidat leh...my co blocked MSN...even web MSN...boo hooooooooo...

 

[doggiebb]

fizz

aiyoo! spitting problem too! go read my webbie! my ger just started that this week! sooooo frustrating!!!

 

[hweehwee]

Fizz
haha! tim also has this habit now! hmmm... so this is the phase that all our bbs are going thru? huh? sigh!

my co also blocked msn....hee hee... its ok la.

cheer up!

 

[fizz]

Doggie / Hwee...

I tink itz a phase for our totz bah...since I tink many of us r reportin the same spittin pblm...except for a few lucky ones...I oways try my luck when Cae opens his mouth to laugh while watchin Barney...many times he wil push my hand away, shake his head, turn his head away...ha...

Yest I wen to my fren's hse...guess wat...her 20mo tot actually held his own milk bottle n finished drinkin it lyin on the sofa...I m green wif envy manzzz...while I was fightin to get tat first spoon of milk into Cae's mouth...my frens were all so surprised to c tis crazy mummy feedin her tot wif a bottle n spoon!!!...

 

[dora]

Kimi

Glad to know that you are back to your optimistic self. Please take good care of yourself and Barry. As for Mandy, I am sure you will be able to make it up to her after that. She is actually quite matured for her age, so don't be surprised that she might understand all these after a while. Dun worry so much ok!!

Fizz/Doggiebb/hwee

I hate to say this, but BEEN THERE DONE THAT!!! Welcome to the club! JT was doing that a few months ago... keep spitting and spitting, clean until siao... and esp bad if we eat out, so pai seh cos the floor and baby chair will be very dirty...now she is better, will open her mouth if she wants to eat, will only spit out if she really finds it awful (like tomato based pasta!)Now she very smart, will test test the 1st mouthful, will insist on seeing what's in the bowl/spoon then she will decide if she wants to open her mouth. If 1st mouthful she spit it out, then there's no why you can put the same food into her mouth again in the same session.

Doggiebb
Just read your blog. JT was also eating food separately for a while. cannot mix everything... the only meat she will eat is chicken drumstick cut into small pieces, and my homemade highly processed meat patty... if its just minced meat, she sure spit it out... if its minced meat in rice, she will spit the rice/meat out... worse, she will dig her mouth with her fingers, like she ate some poison or stg... so you can imagine the mess *Faintz* Now she can eat mixed food liao... but she still likes them on its own. I read the "What to expect the 1st 3 years", apparently its quite common for toddlers to want to eat food separately and not mixed together... think its a phase that will pass...

eh.. you all dun always talk on msn leh... must post here occasionally lah...My co also block msn!!!

 

[dora]

Fizz

Errr... I think its normal for babies/toddlers to drink with a bottle lor... Only wierd babies like JT and Cae got to spoon feed lor...

 

[bobianah]

fizz, doggie, hwee
ya...our kids are champions at "siam-ing" the spoon now. Mine will turn her head away super fast. If not, the hand come out lightening fast to block...then all the food fly on the floor. and if dun like, just pui everything...so the bib wif pocket very good!
But, most of the time, she quite guai guai eat lah. heheh.

star,
miss us ah?? we still here la...sometimes read read...then once in a while will post lar...

 

[doggiebb]

dora

*shudders* where did my cute little docile bb go? her new streak of independence is so scary! nobody can touch her! cannot even touch her hand that is holding the fork. must leave her alone to slowly poke each veggie and bring to her mouth. the same veggie, if fed by me, she will spit out! aiyoo!

and she refused to eat ANY meat at all! it has only been one week and i am like running out of things to feed her!

 

[dora]

DoggieBB

Aiyo... welcome to the club lor The other day at Dee's house you saw how I had to chase after JT to eat her cheerios and banana?? now you understand
You tried chicken drumstick? JT would only eat that. Steam it till just tender, over cook a bit and she will spit it out *Faintz* Yah yah... now JT can eat so fast also because she feed herself... you make meat patty and let her eat with fork? That's what I did, poke the chicken for her and put in front of her in a bowl with a few pcs of the chicken. Then let her put the fork into her mouth. if I feed her she will keep struggling and struggling...
Bo bian lor... JT was like eating chicken drumstick EVERYDAY for 1 mth I think.... what to do??

 

[fizz]

Dora...

Cae has NO INTEREST in self feedin...when I put some porridge into his bowl...he wil play wif the spoon n porridge...drip the porridge everywhere...n fling the spoon ard...faintzzz...then he wil look at the TV again...n bo chap his porridge...

I dunno if I shld try meat patty or not...I tried gifin him bao tat day...he was quite happy eatin tiny pieces of it...albeit very very very slowly...then I tried a lil bit of meat fm a char siew bao ...hopin tat he wil take to "sweet meat"...1 teeny weensy bit n he choked til his face became red...after tat...itz mouth zipped to both bao n meat!!!

Bobianah...

Pkt bib is gd ah...hee...I can get fm HF Mothercare at 15% wif Amex...

Doggie...

Errr...Cae wasw never docile...whahaaaaaaaaa...he doesnt like meat either...unless it blends totally into the porridge...

 

[diveera]

I feel more comforted after reading post on spitting. My gal gal also been doing that recently. Her intake has dropped at least 30%. Initially, I thought she prefer rice than porridge. But if I mixed the rice with meat/fish and vege. After 3 to 5 spoonful she will spit out. She doesn't mind rice and meat/fish but the moment there is veg, she will spit out. Last time she will finish a bowl of porridge with meat/fish and veg. Now be it rice or porridge only half to 3/4 bowl. I running out of veg to give her.
Hope this phase will pass soon.

I salute mummies like dora, kimi and those who are patiently try out cooking different food for their toddler.

 

[mummyme]

hey mummies
lucas also went thru a short phase of spitting out his food few weeks back. But he was more playing with it... not sure if its the same for you guys. He would chew then open his mouth, stick out his tongue n let the food roll out/ he will push it out with this front teeth!!! Super naughty!!

 

[kimi]

mummies,
went 4 a 2nd opinion just now cos i dun trust my gynae who basically just gave me ventolin n monitor w/o explaining or running any tests 4 me.

so glad i went! tis one chked my cervix w a vaginal probe (not like my gynae, used FINGER!) n cfm tt my cervix is still thick n of avg length, at no risk o opening up at all. bb Barry is perfectly fine. he oso did a swap test 4 me to chk 4 vaginal tract infection (all these my gynae nv did). e results will b out in a few days. he tinks it shld b infection which will oso lead to premature labour. he said it's perfectly fine 4 me to carry on doing my chores and taking care o mandy!

YIPEE! poor mandy dun haf to suffer anymore! she's been acting so weird and looking so troubled lately, like being forced to grow up suddenly. now i can sayang her more.

e gd ting is tt my mum n her r so close now.

we'll still ask our mums to come over to bond w her n learn how 2 take care o her, to prepare 4 e coming o barry.

aiyo, so happy i can move more freely now!

fizz,
mb u try turning off e tv? when i 1st started her self feeding training, i found tt once mandy has any distractions, she won't focus on her food. if they can't focus on their food, they won't wanna self feed. mb clear all his toys etc so tt they're outta sight and turn off any tv etc tt'll distract him?

now tt mandy is used to treating mealtimes as well, mealtimes, she can still self feed and eat n nt get distracted when e tv is on. but i dun do tt lah (unless at our mum's place)

self feeding really really helps a great deal in her food intake. now she eats all her meal by herself, except milk lah....

n she eats much faster n more too!

mummies,
4 feeding, mandy sometimes like to use diff bowls n spoons to eat. when she's gotten sick o her munchkin plate, i'll gif her a bowl den switch bk n so on. she eats happily lidat.

 

[isishui]

Kimi,
tt's great news!!!

but, meanwhile, still do be careful b4 the result is out...

 

[isishui]

bobianah, hwee,
need help here... how do i apply for visa for entering Australia? i checked out the web n it is £20 per person for the ETA! i rem i did not pay tt much during my trip to melbourne 2 years ago leh...

 

[fizz]

Hi Kimi...

Tatz GREAT news...YEY!!!...stil...I tink u shld not over exert yrself...n try to let go of carin for Mandy to yr mum n mil...as u stil nid to b away fm her durin labor...

Hmmm...ok...I shall try to switch off the TV n c how Cae reacts...fm past ex[periences...I dun tink it wil come easy...haizzz...

 

[afcai]

shihui,
apply visa need $$ mah. why not ask yr travel agent to apply for u? for me few yr back long ago when I went melbourne/sydney, it was told that visa is free even for NZ.

 

[bobianah]

Shihui

HUH? £20??? You got see sala bo??? They charge in POUNDS for wat??
It is AUD20 la!! You go thru the Aussie High Comm can see wat.
Save you the trouble: http://australia.org.sg/

Dun go travel agent la...they will change u anyway, unless you bought a package tour with them in which case all these fees are probably included in the package price oredi.
I can't stand package tours...

Kimi
Good good...but in the meantime, pls dun go to the extreme and over tire yourself hor! U shd still hv SOME bedrest...
Just worried abt u la...

 

[coolman]

hi doggiebb, bobianah, fizz, Diana, hwee,

my boi also had this feeding and spitting problem for more than 2 months. Until recently, his appetite improve and he dun spit his food out any more. Like Dora and Kimi, I have also seperate the rice/porridge wif other dishes. But i still mix his porridge wif vege and meat when i bring him out during the weekend. He will still eat the porridge wifout any fuss.
So for my case, it was just a passing phase for Jav. You gals have to hang on to it. The bright day will come.

 

[hweehwee]

Shihui
Who are you getting the aussie tickets from? i got it free from the travel agent i booked the tickets from. if you still need help, let me know.

 

[hweehwee]

Kimi
Good news! i'm so glad to know Barry is going to be fine and that Mandy is getting along so well with her grannies!

enjoy the rest of your pregnancy!

mummies
so looks like all kiddos will go thru the spitting phase hor.... my #1 didn't lor.... let me try to separate his meat and rice. my boy loves meat!!!

 

[isishui]

bobianah,
thanks!! opps.. i think i muz hav entered some EU webby unknowingly or wat.... i rem clearly i saw pounds.. was wondering y too... coz i rem it's either AUD or S$20 too...

hwee,
i got my air tickets thru SIA direct coz we redeeming miles... so no travel agents to turn to.....

afcai,
i rem tt time my travel agent charge me $6 plus but tt's bcoz i bought the package fr them... now, not sure how they r going to charge liao.... so will apply online to save the hassale bah...