Support Group - Stillbirths

jasmum · Aug 22, 2008

hey it's great that you are able to have access to read medical journals...
i have done so too, but... it gets more confusing too as i read more... and finally i just stopped myself, as it gets scary and worrying too, wanting to try and "know" the "unknown" by just reading when nothing is very factual or 100% sure.

err... not sure if you get what i mean... but i remembered it didn't help much but instead got me abit more depress and upset in the end...
b'cos, i kept asking myself the (forbidden) "what if" questions... so i stopped reading after having my then last visit with both my doctors in end May... as i wanted to leave it to my Faith and rest with HIS WORD.

well, i went thru' a lot of tests for both the loss... i can't quite recall what they are but let's see i can remember:
i had this done both times
thrombophilia:
-anti-thrombin III
-protein c & protein s
-apc - resistance test
[these mentioned 5 my hubby had it check once after the 2nd loss]

-gestational diabetes screening (blood & urine tests) done both times
-cultures tests on tissue taken from cervix, placenta as well as from my babies for any infection. done both times
-did further ultra sound checks for any growth, cyst or fibroid, etc... done both times
[results all normal and passed]
but i know if ultra sound shows some thing, then a hysterosalpingogram (x-ray of pelvic area) and even a hysteroscopy would have been required.
-hubby and i went thru' this long health history checklist with Dr. Tan after the 2nd loss on both our families background.

ahh... yes heparin was mentioned but there are side effects and advised to be administered only at 2nd trimester onwards... but the thing is this blood clotting / hypercoil can still formed and there is no way to detect...
heparin works similar to aspirin [lesser side effect and doesn't pass thru' the placenta to baby]
heparin does pass thru' and could affect baby to having heparin-induced thrombocytopenia (HIT) resulting in the degradation of platelets affecting baby's growth & development.

but, my doc have mentioned they had an africa lady who warded herself in RH for 7-8mths preg. and she had heparin right from the start after 3-5 loss. she did have a healthy baby, i was told.

so there is a risk... and also lots of $$$$$$

there is another jab... i can't recall what it's called...
but being on such blood thinners, there are high chances of having pre-eclasmpsai and small size baby.

docs went thru' with us on all the options and what to do... and the known 'safest' is aspirin and that's why i am on it already... one of the prep / caution to take while TTC. ohh as well as folic

i am given a 30~50% of 3rd time occurrence... so it's fearful... but i am prayerful... and tuning to let what come may in the LORD's hands for me.

in May i was told there was another lady who had the same 'loss' diagnose too... and also one lady upon doing her 2nd FTS, she was put on aspirin too, as there was evidence of blood clotting... hmmm... i do pray that she turns out ok and well with her baby.

well, yes, do share what you can, do know and do find...
this is the reason why we are all here... to support and comfort eachother.

nite-nite

jasmum · Aug 23, 2008

to add to the "after miscarriage / stillborn list of blood tests / screenings" done:
- blood test for thyroid
- blood test for lupus disease

and once again a clean bill in the check *Praise to be Abba Father*

monster · Aug 24, 2008

Hi Jasmum,

Yes,u're right.reading those med journals sometimes worries me coz of the negative outcome.

As for folic acid,u're right abt that.the journals also said that it is 1 of the 'precaution'.

I'm getting a doc friend to refer me to KKH (under subsidy) & NUH to consult either a maternal fetal med specialist or haematologist.I would like to go to RH,but it's going to be super expensive.so i want to try the restructured hospitals 1st.If they cannot give me the 'answers' that i want,i may consider going to RH.

I agree with u.We can have every test done,but we cannot predict when this will happen.I'm even thinking of buying a stethescope to check the baby's heartbeat every hr & monitor the no. of kicks every hr (have it charted down).but if the clot does strike again,we will never know when it strikes.we really have no control over this.

Let's juz hope that we can have healthy babies after our expereience.u know,until today,as sad as i am,i'm very thankful for the experience.experience pregnancy,experiencing birth,experiencing holding a baby.

Mylollipopdays · Aug 24, 2008

Dear Jasmum and Monster, I identify with every word that you've corresponded as I've been through 2 stillbirths and 1 premature infant death. Till today, in the deep recess of my heart, I miss my babies in a way that words cannot express. If you are looking for a maternal fetal doc in KKH, I'd recommend Dr Kenneth Kwek, a very experienced and patient doc with very good bedside manners. He and Dr Loh took care of me when I was warded in KKH for 3months trying to save my twins' lives last year.

SweetieMinnie, what you did was very memorable - going down to the beach, having a simple yet meaningful observance ceremony to remember your bb's EDD. People may thing we are overly-emotional or sentimental but hey, we carried the babies and their existence are real. So if they can celebrate their bb's birthdays and milestones, why can't we remember our bbs in our own ways? We also did something similar for all the 3 children we've lost and these are small steps towards closure. If it helps, you may visit the Child Bereavement Singapore (CBS) website - it's a support group of mummies (and daddies) in SG who've experienced child loss.

You can read of my 3 children there too - http://www.childbereavementsupport.org.sg/ourchildren_stories/The%20Story%20of%20Nathaniel,%20Joash%20and%20Ashley.html CBS runs a support group once a month for bereaved parents to come together and support each other through our loss and pain. If anyone's keen to attend, do let me know.

monster · Aug 24, 2008

Hi angel,

I've read ur story,and my heart goes out to u.it seems that u've gone thru' fertility treatment? (i may be wrong).

A friend i know has also gone thru' stillbirth at 5 mths.she had a whole funeral etc for her son.at that time,i was still young,couldn't understand how someone could have juz lost a baby out of the blue.that was wat the boss said when she had to tell my sis she could only offer my sis a part time job instead of a full time job coz this lady who lost her baby doesn't have to cut down her hrs at work already.

My friend may far away in australia,but it seems like she understood every inch of wat i'm going thru' now.Everytime i read her msg,i tear.i don't know y.

To make things worse,all my hubby's friends are at the stage where they have young babies.another one juz gave birth.It's so painful to attend functions with them.but at the same time,i don't want to alienate myself & let ppl say "sour grapes".I'm sure all of u know wat i mean.i try to move on,but i also think "i juz needed 2 more mths,i'll have a lovely gal in my arms".

it's so painful to see happy friends with kids etc.I try not to show any emotions.My husband & i don't talk abt how we feel ard these friends.it seems that we both know how each other feel,but mentioning it = bringing up our pain.

I managed to find time to pack up some of the baby's stuff.it wasn't that difficult.i've only packed the playpen & car seat.haven't got down to packing the baby clothes.i bought so many fr australia.in fact,all the baby's clothes are fr australia.i wonder wat to do with all these girl's stuff in the event i really don't have a girl in future.i bought so many coz i was so sure the baby is a girl & i'm already into the 3rd trimester,so everything should be smooth sailing already.

Has anyone felt like me? i want to try immediately so i can have a baby soon.but i juz took my MMR immunisation,so i have to wait at least 3 mths.Gynae said 6 mths,but i cannot wait so long.anyway,i'm telling myself if i get pregnant so soon,the uterus may not be strong enough to support another pregnancy so soon,and if it ends up in a miscarriage,i'll be wasting more time.

I also want to find out fr all of u,how soon did ur period return? coz if there's no period,how to know fertile period?

Angel,did the doc find out the reason for intrauterine death of ur 2 babies? I agree with u.Dr.kenneth Kwek did the down syndrome scan for me & he was the only doc (of all the docs i saw thru'out the pregnancy) who congratulated my hubby & me.he's patient,did not rush thru',& even did another scan for me coz i was so upset.i decided to laminate my baby's scans & of course,they turned out black coz the scans are printed on photopaper which is heat sensitive.how stupid of me.Angel,were u a private patient? & wat was the reason 2 docs co-managed u? is it coz dr.kwek doesn't do deliveries of babies? if u were a private patient,did u run up a huge bill?

Thank u for sharing ur children's story.i don't know how u & ur husband coped with wat u have went thru'.but i have to say u r very brave & i admire u .

i wonder besides sharing of story,wat else can i do to contribute to CBS?coz i'm not ready to share.i still need time to grief.

kkf · Aug 25, 2008

Angel, I like the precious moments figurine you have put in your story of your children. I had one precious moment figurine purchased for my angel boy too. But the figurine in your story, it was really like your 3 beautiful children.

I also have a website for my angel boy
http://jared.ido.per.sg/
(you can see the precious moment figurine).

Actually, all of us mummies remembered our angels in our own ways, sometimes, I do wonder, as I am not a christian, my mum told me, do not do anymore things for my boy, let him recarinate with an ease of mind. But still, I will buy him presents for his birthday, go changi beach to see him, look up into the sky to say goodnite to him etc. Thats the way I remember him.

Monster, I do understand perfectly your feelings in seeing others with children and attending those functions. I was like that before. I can tell you, even till now, I am like that even though I am blessed with one boy now. I will still be jealous of those friends or colleague of mine who have their smooth pregnancies and give birth so easily! One of my colleague is going to give birth soon, and I wonder how come so easy for her! TO me, both my pregnancies ended up in premature labor. I just want to carry my babies to full term yet so difficult for me! sigh.

I was also like you, I tried for another child 3 months after I lost my angel boy. But honestly, that might be a wrong decision. I know it is really not easy to wait, waiting is a torture. But there is medical report that says a woman needs at least 2 years after birth to completely recover, and be healthy for another pregnancy again. I did not wait last time, and my 2nd boy ended up premature again, luckily we have him with us after his two months plus stay in hospital.

All mummies who lost your children, I know prefectly the pains you are going thru, and the eagerness to find out the underlying problems, and to find solutions. Me too, I will really like to know why I had twice premature labor, how to prevent it from happening again! I know for my next pregnancy, everyday, fear will grab hold of me every single second throughout the 10 months. But eventually I gave up. I know something is just beyond our control. sigh. Fate has it this way, the only thing we can do is to try our best to prevent, do watever we can, and then to pray and wait. Sometimes, there is just no explaination, like my case.

I have been following this thread actually. Sometimes it is really good to share our experiences here as you won't feel like an alien among others, you know what I mean. Most of the mummies around us are blessed, they didn't go thru wat we went thru. They didn't understand wat we had been thru.

miracle_bb · Aug 25, 2008

Hi jasmum,

I would like to correct your point on "but being on such blood thinners, there are high chances of having pre-eclasmpsai and small size baby." and "so there is a risk... and also lots of $$$$$$"

I took aspirin and clexane (heparin shots) during my 3rd preg and my boy was born of good weight. He is coming to 3 yrs old and is still showing good weight and development. Actually in 2005 when I took this heparin, I only knew of 2 other ladies who are taking it and kept in touch with them. All our boys are growing fine. Some gynaes do prescribed heparin, however my gynae do not. So she recommended me to see a haematologist in Mt E. One syringe of heparin cost $16 (that was the price in 2005, now maybe increase). As I had to take daily jab from 14 weeks, you can imagine the cost that is incurred. So I chose to go to polyclinic to get referral to see haematologist in govt hospital. After govt subsidy, one syringe cost $4 (huge savings!). Also I was able to claim from my company's insurance $1K for specialist fees. I had a letter written by my haematologist to certify that my thrombophilia is not pregnancy related and taking the blood tests and injections is maternal health related. This way I could make the $1K claim without any issues.

The only side effect of blood thinners is it can deplete the calcium in your body. So you need to drink lots of milk and take calcium pills when you are taking aspirin and heparin.

Someone also mentioned, can't remember izzit monster, sweetie or jasmum, that the hubbies seem to get over the stillbirth easily. I cannot agree with this point. Hubbies are also grieving, but they cannot show their grief because they have to be strong for their wives. For us, we have this forum as an outlet to pour our hearts to or talk to friends. I never knew how much my hubby was affected until recently when I was keen to have another pregnancy. We already have one son, but I was thinking of giving him a sibling. He is strongly against me getting preg again as he is very fearful of the pregnancy process, the uncertainties and fears will all come back again. I told him that he has not let go of the past, and he shared with me that the past 2 stillbirths has caused alot of trauma to him. The times when I told him "eh I think the baby not moving leh" has caused alot of psychological hurt and fear in him. We are currently attending a church program to work through some of the issues facing our marriage and our decision in having more kids.

jasmum · Aug 25, 2008

java (cosmicstar),
thank you for sharing your 1st hand experience.

liked mentioned, my docs. went thru with us on all the options/pro/con and also nothing is fully "fool-proof" as our body/preg all differs.
there are evidence of pre-eclasmpsai and small size baby on some mummies who had had blood thinners but then again it's just to know and monitor and what to expect.
they did tell us that daily jabs were expected too.
cost will be a factor too... but we'll see how it goes, b'cos over the 2 stillbirths (6mths preg) we did spend more than 10k, as we did test after test, checks after checks... and that's excluding the under-taken fees / arrangements.

but we managed to have make a bit of insurance claim...

thank you once again - it is so good to hear of your outcome... so encouraging.

praise the LORD.

if i were to get preg. again i will have a haematologist too... already my docs said, i will be a "case-study object"... and i do have a 30~50% risk of having another stillbirth...
or if i could hold up the preg. baby will be delivered by 30th~34th week... premature but alot more of survivor chance... risking another mth is so unsure...
ah yoi... say/write all these... seems so easy.. but when the fear sets in... i can imgine...
i just have to be very prayerful and release...

by Faith, we know, we have to hand over to Abba Father the "remote control" and let him tune in the channel of our lives... for us

it's coming to 8mths and so far we merely (not so hard-workingly) TCC once yet still no news...

Monster (monster),
my period came back appox. 8wks after D&C.
the flow was very heavy, lumpy with clots and i did have a slight cramp. but by day 3, very light spotting only. after the 1st cycle finished i had to see my doctor then which she had an ultra sound check on me just a routin checked i guess.

there after cycles went haywired... the longest since was a 37days cycle and shortest was a 23days cycle... it took a while to stabilise. and so far the july one was a 29days cycle and i am expecting AF this week.

as for ovulation - i know in March / April i didn't even 'O' though i had my AF. in March was my longest 37days cycle and June was the 23days cycle.

it will take our body some time to adjust and age do play a part too... so does our individual stress-level, that we 'face' day-to-day...

i know it seems all very tough and hard for you, b'cos you feel so "left-out" among your peers and friends and now with the "good baby bonus news" more pregs are surrounding you, etc...

hang in there gal !!
this is one obstacle you will have to slowing adept.
but if can mentally try as much to prepare yourself and also let your body system rest...
you were 7+mths preg. so do give your body time to shift it's hormone back...

what i am still doing is trying to lose that extra weight... so i am trying to get fit again.

as for hubbies;
my hubby said he can't wipe away "that look" on my face when i just delivered my stillborns...
we prayed (reading the bible) - well he mostly while i was "pushing"...
if he could he said he just don't want to put me thru' that again... he even told the docs.
but we have talked thru' and had had our prayer sessions...
it's not our will but HIS will be done for us... so if HE blesses - Amen. if HE takes again Amen.

[sorry if i don't make sense to you... but it is really by Faith that i am seeing myself thru' ohh... and i am in no way preaching or reaching out to you or / anyone hor.... it is just my way... to use HIS way and keep me going]
<hugs>

monster · Aug 25, 2008

Hi all,

Went back to work after 3 long wks!but i'm only working in the afternoons.I felt excited going back to work,yet i also felt lazy.haha.1st day back at work was quite smooth sailing.My collegues & staff did talk abt wat i went thru'.but i was able to handle it.1 of the nurses had a prematured baby at 29 wks.when she heard the news of me,she was hoping it would be a prematured baby,not a stillborn.I was surprised at how calm i could talk abt this.everyone thinks i'm so strong coz i'm so calm,but i'm a wreck inside,esp bedtime.i think abt the baby every night w/o fail.That's the only thing i can hold on to.

java,y were u on blood thinners? care to share ur experience?

I'm getting a doc friend to refer me to NUH & KKH to see their maternal fetal med specialist.i want to know wat's in store for me b4 i get pregnant again.I want a referal coz no matter wat,i know the cost of the next pregnancy will be high.& i'm considered self employed,so if i don't work,i don't get paid.also getting prepared for the possibility of having to skip many days at work for the next pregnancy.

My husband has new found respect for me after seeing me go thru' labour.labour was definitely not as difficult & painful as i tot it would be.i think for the next baby,i will try no epidural.sometimes i console myself,saying that i'll be the 'queen' (more like queen bitch)again if i get pregnant.can't get along with sis in law.she makes annoying remarks.

Until today,still cannot get over it.when we announced i was expecting,the 1st thing she said was,"should have a boy 1st to take the pressure off u."i wanted to punch her.she's only 2 yrs older than me,very educated some more.if anyone has been thru' wat we have,i think we all know that doesn't matter it's a girl or boy,as long as the baby is healthy.didn't want to kick up a big fuss coz it was over reunion dinner.so bit my lip & sat thru' the whole dinner.& the day after i received a gift fr her for the baby,this happened.i know it's all a coincidence,can't blame anyone,but deep down inside,i wonder if she is 'jinxed'.haha.so bad,hor? told myself for the next pregnancy,i'll avoid the in laws as much as possible.MIL passed away 1 yr ago.FIL is even better,scolded my hubby when he gave the maid some floor mats to wash.i was 7 mths pregnant.Best of all,he decided to take a hol during the EDD.1st grandkid in the family.i feel they don't treasure the grandchild at all.maybe baby feels it too.

so different fr my family.my sis who lives in aus will spend all that money to fly back juz for the birth.& all my aunts will spend the time & money to boil soups etc for me.& everytime they c me,they will ask abt the baby & they are all excited.

& to think that FIL & SIL expressed sadness over wat happened.FIL said looking fwd to the baby.i was abt to say BULL! if excited abt the baby,y choose to take a hol during the EDD? can't stand them.the only reason y i'm putting up with them is for my hubby's sake.don't want him to be in a difficult position too.

sweetieminnie · Aug 25, 2008

Hi Angel,
thank you for affirming on what i did was right.

we are mothers of our angels, they do exist (it's a fully formed baby). for those who has not been through our path, they might think that we are 'unable to let go and move on' and we should simply 'snip' off any memories that we are holding on. actually, am tired of explaining to them tt my heart still bleeds, my tears still flows, how much i need to grieve..all these, they would never understand..their consolation words which only intensified our pain.

kkf,
i concur with you totally.. y do some women give birth so easily and conceived immediately after the 1st one? while i've a really smooth pregnancy for 32 weeks, my baby just stopped breathing one day..for no reason(no contractions, waterbag burst nor bleeding,etc) and till now, still no reason was given..sigh

Monster,
my heart goes out to you.. i can understand your pain, the anger and agony..so close to motherhood..all of us do. <hugs> As we are in the child bearing age, we do see many babies and pregnant friends/realtives. I've a hard time during my confinement days and till now.. I did my confinement in my MIL's place. my hubby came from a really 'big' clan of relatives, with all being neighbours, n gatherings every week. When the incident happened, most of the relatives came flooding into his house, the usual 'sop' which made me tear even more..they even got the wrong info that my baby died of blood clot. there are a total of 6 babies from his side (2 of them born subsequent months after mine). my sil would bring her baby back every week. she is really cute and the sight of her..reminds of my baby girl. The neighbouring relatives would have gatherings, celebrations and i could hear their joy, while am swallowing my tears. am getting slightly better, i could play with my neice now. but the upcoming big celebrations, i seriously do not know, if am really to face all these..i hope they will understand that i need time..am still crying sliently at night.

oh yes, those 'sop' consolation words..'you are still young, could try to conceive again' It's a life loss, a new life can never replace the precious life lost. How much do they understand our hurt? while some commented they are mothers too..they do understand. They are mothers of crying babies in their arms..

did you went through induction? Mine is induced birth, n i went through 10 hrs of labour pain(still fresh in my mind). my menses came 5 weeks after delivery and having my 2nd cycle now.

Forgive me for the long post/whining.

monster · Aug 25, 2008

Hi sweetie,

I'm sorry for wat u have to go thru' as well.yes,i had an induced birth.26 hrs! i can remember every moment of the whole thing.the initial contractions were strong & very close apart,i was so happy coz i tot i was in labour already (get it over & done with quickly,so my body can recover).but after 12 hrs of the same sort of contraction,i was only 2cm dilated! & the worse part was the doc checking for dilation!i didn't expect that sort of terrible discomfort,i nearly grabbed her hand & screamed.after a while,when the doc checked again,i was 3cm dilated.it was not much more dilation,but i was so happy as some progress is better than no progress.i took pethidine jabs,a couple.i tried to control as much as possible,wanting to know my pain threshold.surprisingly,it is quite high.haha.wat they teach in antenatal class is really useful.the rocking motions,the breathing etc.then when i woke up the next morn,i suddenly remembered they said in the class that walking ard will help the baby's head move downwards more quickly.so i forced myself to walk ard (can't take pethidine,as it will make me drowsy,so tried to put up with the contractions).after a few hrs,i bled heavily & the dilation was abt 6-8cm,enough for me to deliver.

sometimes,like i've said b4,i'm really thankful for the opputunity to have experienced birth (juz that the outcome is not wat we want it to be).now i know,i think for the next pregnancy,i can do without epidural.

u know,it's so sad when u hear in the other labour wards the sound of babies crying,the suction sound etc.then in my ward,so quiet,u could even hear a pin drop.only sobs fr my ward...

but i think it's impt for all of us to be strong.nothing is going to change the outcome of our lives.it has happened.we have to find strength to accept it.

sweetieminnie · Aug 25, 2008

Hi Monster,

after reading your prolonged labour, now i could understand why my gynae told me am progressing pretty well (sensitive) with the medication while am trembling (just like having seizures),vomitted and having intensed contractions. and after 8hrs, am only 2cm dilated. Thank god, it went on exponentially. you have a high threshold..26hrs of labour pain. <hugs>

yes, we will find the strength to accept and face it in time.

Am glad there are so many ladies here who lend us listening ears. The strength and comfort to move on in time.. i really appreicate it.

monster · Aug 25, 2008

Hi sweetie,

Well,like u,i'm glad there's such a thread in this forum.it's so good to be able to 'speak' to ppl with similar experience.Very difficult to bring this subject up with hubby coz i think we both know deep down inside,we are still grieving.

monster · Aug 28, 2008

hello,

can anyone tell me why this thread has been closed?

monster · Aug 28, 2008

hello,

can anyone tell me why this thread has been closed?

pegsfur · Aug 29, 2008

Hi monster,

This thread was not closed. It automatically stores to the archive when there's no recent posting.

I lost my bb too at 22wks, but it was due to my waterbag rupture. It broke at abt 17 weeks ... drag till 22 wks to have me induced. My bb was still so small, slightly larger than the size of a palm. I've told the nurses i want to see him when he comes out. My hubby took a pic of him while I hold and touched my bb, stroke his little hands, b4 we unwillingly let him go.

I've got his name 'Owen' tattooed on my wrist to keep him close to me. It's been 9 mths after the incident but of cos, there's never a moment i never think of him.

jasmum · Aug 29, 2008

i avoided baby-showers and even 1st year birthdays, when i had my 1st stillbirth in '06... family's & friends' all didn't go.
so far, hubby is ok, we just send a little token / gift / ang-bao that's all.
in fact, we yet to attend any baby-thingy affair till today...

*sigh* come 4.30pm today (after attending to a teacher's day celebration luncheon last year) it'll be a year ago that i found out i was preg with Rebekkah... but only to know that she went to a 'better place' in jan this year... *sigh*
<sorry...>

monster · Aug 29, 2008

Hi pegsfur,

Sorry to hear abt ur loss.wat u described abt stroking ur baby's hand etc.i did the same.I wanted so much to hold her longer in my arms.i didn't even have much strength to dress her.i told my hubby to dress her.i was too dizzy fr the effect of the gas.wow,u even tatooted his name on ur wrist.i'm too chicken to get a tatoo.haha.i did not want to drag on too long coz my thinking is: the faster i can get over this,the faster i can heal,the faster i can try again.it has been abt 1 mth since it all happened.seems so long ago.juz today,i took out the baby's photo to have a look.surprisingly,i didn't cry,but the piercing pain thru' the heart is much worse.i think eveyone will remember this for the rest of their lives.

My hubby mentioned that we are not going to remember the date of the stillborn,EDD etc.sigh.maybe he was not thinking properly.i think when the day comes,we will go on with our n daily lives,but deep down inside,i think our hearts will be aching for this little angel & we will prob sob silently.

i still cry every night,but i'm improving.hopefully,i'll find enough strength to pull myself out of this rut.only then,can i move on.it's so difficult,but the mind is a powerful organ,so as much as i think it's difficult,it's not impossible.

Jasmum,
it must be diffuclt for u till this day.i think we all feel ur pain.i'm very worried history will repeat itself,as my case is quite similar to ur case (wrt to thrombosis).don't know y my gynae did not ask for blood test for thrombophilia.but i'll go get tested by myself.

till today,i still wonder & visualise in my head wat it would be if i was still pregnant with the baby.& how if only she waited 4 more weeks,she will be able to see this beautiful world (though she will be prematured,but at least she has a good chance of survival at 33 wks).if only...but we all know we cannot turn back time & this is reality.sigh.Life is unfair,life is cruel.but wat to do? wat doesn't kill us only makes us stronger.hopefully...this is the only consolation i give myself.

kkf · Aug 29, 2008

be strong, jasmum, monster, pegsfur and all the mummies here.

can understand the pains.

I just wish that we dun have to go thru these again. Just let us successfully have our bundles of joys in our arms one day.

monster · Aug 29, 2008

hello gals,

tot i'll share something interesting with all of u.met up with a sec sch friend today & we were chatting abt pregnancy.she too,has a cousin who lost a pair of twins to miscarriage.

she said it seems that a smooth pregnancy these days are not the norm.she also mentioned the chance of having a smooth pregnancy seems lower than the chance of a successful pregnancy.

Hmm....tot provoking,isn't it? in some sense,it's true.the whole term of pregnancy is a risk.u never know wat can happen.

I wish everyone a pleasant weekend.i'm on course on sat & sun.how shitty.but at least i'm kept occupied.

sweetieminnie · Sep 1, 2008

Hi gals,

How are your weekends? i personally find it hard to express/explain my grieve to others, and have to 'act' normal. there is always some kind of unknown 'distance' between us. They would think 'erasing' everything is the best solution. I do not want to forget my baby, which i would never be. I know all of us wouldn't. She is embedded in my heart forever. Do you gals have the same feelings? or perhaps it's just me..

Jasmum,
I could not pluck up the courage to join in big gatherings nor attend weddings. My hubby would like me to 'stand up' and lead back the normal social life. sometimes, it's really tough..i just want to be alone at times..and he came from a huge clan of relatives which makes it even more challenging.

Monster,
i rem telling my friends that 1st trimester is not the only critical period..the whole pregnancy is,no matter how smooth the process was..it would just happen.. *sigh*

pegsfur,
i rem your lovely angel, Owen. <hugs>

monster · Sep 2, 2008

Hi sweetieminnie,

Had an okie weekend.feels like it's juz the both of us,doing the usual stuff.My story is...got ROM in 2007 coz mum in law was very sick.so held a small party to allow her to witness us marrying.mum in law passed away after that.so wedding was pushed back fr Nov 2007 to Feb 2008.I wanted a baby in 2008 coz i have this thingy abt age.so planned to get pregnant b4 holding customary marriage.everything worked out really well.got pregnant by CNY 2008.so i don't feel any different since it felt like i juz got married & moved into my new house.

juz chatted with my mum.quarrelled over the lost baby.she said i must be more superstitious.coz we juz moved into new house,a lot of things weren't done up yet & i told hubby it's okie to do things,juz do it when i'm not ard.hubby is also not superstitious.but there's only 1 thing i really regret.i regretted accepting a gift fr my sis in law.i really detest her.the day after i received her gift,this happened.a couple of days after she got married,her mum passed away.i consider her jinxed.& to top that up,she made the comment when i 1st got pregnant that i should have a boy 1st to 'ease the pressure'.wat pressure? no old folks even said a thing abt having a boy is impt.when she found out i'm having a gal,she said,"isn't this wat u wanted?" i tell u,i felt like bitch slapping her.

i told myself,for the next pregnancy,i will not take any gifts fr her b4 the baby is born.even after the baby is born,i will only accept red packets fr her.& i want to avoid her at all cost.least she say silly things to get me worked up again.i have already come up with a 'plan'.how evil,right? but for the sake of having my own family,i will do anything.i'm sure all u gals will agree.

i totally understand wat sweetie means.i can go at my daily life as usual.no problem abt that.i mean,one still has to work to pay loans,right? & my hubby thinks if i keep looking at the baby's photo,i will not get over her.how to ever get over her? NEVER.she will always be tucked away in a special corner of my heart.she was once part of my life,and she will always be.i think of her every night.i choose to memorise every detail of her.

I'm juz wondering if anyone has successfully conceived after a stillborn.if yes,can anyone share how soon? i'm thinking of trying after 3 mths.i would try after 1 mth,but i took my MMR vaccination & i think it's safer to wait 3 mths.& this also forces myself to allow my uterus to heal.

got my period after 4 wks,never been happier having periods! haha.i wonder if it's the lochia,but i don't think it is.coz i had the lochia for abt 2 wks,then it totally stopped,no more bleeding,only lots of discharge.4 wks after the birth,i had moderate bleeding again,but it lasted only for 4 days.

Now i understand how great a mother's love is.& i can understand y my mum is so protective of my sis & i.she had a complicated pregnancy coz she was expecting twins.now,i'm juz waiting,waiting,waiting...waiting for my little miracle to come into our lives.but still,that doesn't & will never erase the memories of our beloved angel

superbunny · Sep 3, 2008

Hi mummies..

Have been reading this thread on and off.. and really, am so grateful that there is this forum which allows us to share our feelings and experiences.. which as i remember, really helped me get over my own experiences.

Monster - can understand how you feel about your SIL. for myself, it was also one of my inlaws that, for that period of time, i really hated. the truth is, till now, i still detest her and its hard to let you. Hubby and I went for couples counselling after gabriel's passing and it made me understand why i detested her so much - i was re-directing my anger towards this person. Although i understand the reason, it doesn't make things easier. Luckily Hubby is understanding, so we aviod big family gatherings just so that i don't have to meet her. Hubby has his own way of coping with the issue. It has been almost 1.5 years since, and we have moved on. But there will be days when we think about our little boy and there will still be tears. I always tell myself, if i was lucky, i would be a mother of 2 already.

There will be miracles - i truely believe in it. So don't give up k?

miracle_bb · Sep 3, 2008

Hi Monster,

Actually I was the one who created this thread when I was trying to get some support from ppl who had stillbirths.

I had 2 stillbirths both lost at 35 weeks. First one lost on 1 June 2003, the other on 22 Jan 2005. I have protein S deficiency, a kind of Inherited Thrombophilia that causes blood clots in the placenta. Was administered heparin shots in my 3rd preg to thin the blood and have close fetal monitoring.

Hi jasmum,
Don't worry about rabbling about going by faith, etc. I am a Catholic and I know firsthand that without God, I may have lost my mind or even committed suicide after my stillbirths.

After finishing writing this post, I am going to visit my friend who just gave birth to a baby girl. In her 1st preg, she had a stillbirth at 42 weeks. Then she went on heparin shots and gave birth to her second baby at 38 weeks. The one that she just gave birth was well done at 40 weeks. so miracles do happen! Don't give up gals!

monster · Sep 4, 2008

Hi java,

I'm sorry to hear abt ur loss.Although it has been many yrs,in my opinion,no one should have to go thru' this twice.U r not the only one.I think jasmum also had 2 stillbirths.

i would like to find out fr u & jasmum...coz i'm really beginning to get paranoid.

1)Were both of u tested for protein deficiency after the 1st time?

2)Did the doc suggest early delivery of the baby thru' C section?

Coz my gynae thinks having a protein C or S deficiency is very rare.She did not even suggest i get a blood test fr this.I have been reading abt this condition,so i decided to see a haematologist.my gynae only suggested asprin for the next pregnancy.at least if i know i have a protein deficiency,i can suggest to her heparin shots.

3)Java,were both the stillborns lost due to blood clots in the placenta? no other diagnosis? my diagnosis is "thrombotic fetal vasculopathy
".after 1st lost,was precaution was taken? asprin only?

4)& in general,i would also like to find out if anything can be done to prevent loss of baby thru' blood clots in the placenta.is it a split second thing? like blood clot forms,blood flow impeeded,then baby dies.or are there any tell tale signs like decreased fetal movement ie. very active to maybe 3 kicks per day? i'm still wondering till today is i could have saved the baby.

if there's something i can do differently for the next pregnancy,i will try my best.even if it means inconviencing myself.i'm even thinking of buying a sethescope to track the heartbeat at hourly intervals & record the no. of kicks.but i'll only do it if this can save my baby.As in,thrombosis is not a split second killer.if it is,by the time i realise no or decreased fetal movement,it'll still be too late.

pls share ur experience.i would do anything for my next baby.i'm juz wanting to do everything i can.but if things still happen,then i can only say life is cruel to me.at least i can say i've done all the preparations.

jasmum · Sep 5, 2008

Monster,

i did all the same required test listed in the above reply (scroll up)...
anyway here it is again - easy to read here:-
(cut & paste here again)
1. well, i went thru' a lot of tests for both the loss... i can't quite recall what they are but let's see i can remember:
i had this done both times
thrombophilia:
-anti-thrombin III
-protein c & protein s
-apc - resistance test
[these mentioned 5 my hubby had it checked once after the 2nd loss]

-gestational diabetes screening (blood & urine tests) done both times
-cultures tests on tissue taken from cervix, placenta as well as from my babies for any infection. done both times
-did further ultra sound checks for any growth, cyst or fibroid, etc... done both times
[results all normal and passed]
but i know if ultra sound shows some thing, then a hysterosalpingogram (x-ray of pelvic area) and even a hysteroscopy would have been required.
-hubby and i went thru' this long health history checklist with Dr. Tan after the 2nd loss on both our families background.
also did
- blood test for thyroid
- blood test for lupus disease
both times

2. IF next pregnancy,
tentative suggestions
daily monitor on 20th week will be hook up on the OTC / dropper / ultra sound, etc...

fetal movement will be chart but here again, can do so by OTC / dropper / ultra sound, as it's quite hard to have a firm count at 4mths preg. as baby is small or mum may be plump (i am)... b'cos baby is floating in the water bag and could be "spasms" movement... that's what i felt... but in actually fact she was gone already...

IF pregnancy is able to hold-out by 32~34 weeks, will induced to natural deliver by then... if able.
anything before that, will be base on what is happening... so no answer here.

so far in this 2nd pregnancy(stillbirth) my 1st FTS at 12 weeks, ultra sound managed to detact a 'norch' in the blood flow of the cord, but it wasn't anything dangerous / complicated... but due to the 1st loss, doc then advise to put me on blood thinners - baby aspirin (Glyprin - made up of 100mg aspirin & glycine 45mg).
and now i am still on it, as a percaution step to take.

as far as i know protein C or S deficiency is able to be handled and monitor... but due to our similar diagnose - there is still not known of what to do... but...
maybe you wish to consider getting yourself tested on the required blood test... first so that you will then know what steps you could actually take
i was actually hoping that something will show up in my test results... so that the doctors could treat it... but none surface... so it's still an "un-known / un-reported"... *sigh*

3. like mentioned above reply, my placenta - mother side is ok and well but baby side had clots.

4. it's a split second thingy... i didn't realise that baby wasn't moving until some time... but then i thought i did feel movement again... but doctor said could have been the "spasms" movement = baby (body floating in the water bag)...
i was told by my doc that she had 1 lady hook up everyday on the OCT in the clinic she'll come during the day for a couple of hours... but when she returned home... baby was gone, as the next day check up show no heart beat...

so i know it's "uncontrollable"... i had it twice and i still couldn't tell, even when i had 2 stillborn same times.
i had 2 - 2nd FTS at 20weeks... i tell you i was counting... and i was a paranoid and scared as the week appraoch... and then i just knew it...
ohhh... i even had a natal baby heart-beat set (or whatever it is called, i can't even re-call now) and i could not detact... b'cos the set can only pick-up baby's heart beat by the 5th mth... so it was useless to me in the end.
all i can hear was "rumbling -sound" which is either the waterbag, or my own tummy and my own heat beat i heard... i know.
b'cos baby's heart beat is very fast, so i know i can tell but oh well.... *sigh*... don't wish to brood in this again.. *sorry*

Monster,
all i can say is, don't think and worry so much... you will get affected and stress and worried... and THERE IS NO END.
just get well, recover, go on a little break a getaway is very healthy and do alot of good to your body/mind/soul... it'll de-stress you. don't rush... recovery is very important... your body needs to be ready and well to hold the next pregnancy... and this is the good that you can do to get your body ready.

getaway is also good for hubby and you... far away from this place - maybe both of you can talk and listen and hear what are the inner thoughts within...
getting away with hubby did help us both after the 1st loss.

i took the pre-caution steps... i did the tests, i spent so much of $$$$ and time, but still it happened again - when i was told it will not... and now i still have a 30~50% risk of having it again...
but what am i doing about it now, again... losing weight, eating right (trying lah...heee...) taking my aspirin and folic and think happy thoughts and move on.
month after month...
and we know deep down in our hearts we will always remember the dates and my dates are appraoching again... but what can i do...

i recently..."snap" a lady relative (in-laws aaarrrggggh)...
she was bugging me with that comment "have another one lah"... i turned around at her and told her no, i had 2 - 2 beautiful girls and they are so perfect and are with my almighty FATHER !!!
she shut herself up after that... then again, i did walk away, so maybe MIL said something to her lah... anyway heee.... i did feel kind of nice leh... having to say that!!! (so bad hor of me...) <blush>

Monster,
why don't you pay a visit to a doctor - a maternal fetal medicine specialist. let the doctor do all the required blood tests and screen tests. put yourself at peace. what we go thru' maybe stillborn / stillbirth... but what is happening within our body / system may differ.

take care dearie.

monster · Sep 5, 2008

Hi Jasmum,

Thank u for sharing.I was like u,didn't even realise the baby not moving.It's prob difficult to tell when the baby has stopped moving coz the baby doesn't move all the time.

Wat ur doc has done is a bit different to wat my doc is planning to do.she plans to start me on asprin as soon as the baby's heart beat is detected & stop asprin at 35 wks.All i ask for the next pregnancy is for me to get as far as 30+ wks so that my baby,though premature,will be able to survive.

A part of me is keen to get hooked up to a monitoring machine,even if it means a bit of inconvenience.Otherwise,i'll counts the beats,use a sethescope or watever helps.yeah,u're right.the baby's heartbeat is usually very fast.heard it on the Doppler machine b4.

BUT,another part of me says: it's all fated.It's a split second thingy with no warning signs.so even if i can monitor 24/7,if it happens,it happens & the baby is still lost.not as though there are warning signs of decreased blood flow or something like that that allows me to rush to the hospital to have the baby delivered.

I'm beginning to think there must be something that is putting us seceptible to all these happening.coz jus like u,jasmum,java also lost 2 babies.Ppl keep reassuring me the 2nd time will be okie,& i hope it ill be.Coz stillbirth happening time & time again seems quite common.Well,at least i know of 2 ppl already.Do u realise a trend? ppl who had a stillbirth b4 & subsequently are on heparin shots seem to have a higher chance of having another baby.or maybe it's juz a random thing...

My gynae like ur gynae,seems to think this is so rare that it will only happen once.that's y i'm being so proactive in going to a haematologist.

& i wonder where the blood clot in the placenta was.mother or baby's side.i don't think it said in my report.

I'll be going to c a haematologist next week & see wat he/she says.yeah,it's a lot of money spent.having gone thru' it once,i really fear.but then again,fear is not going to make the next pregnancy any smoother,right? sigh...

monster · Sep 5, 2008

Hi java,

forgot to ask u.who is ur gynae & which hospital did u go to?

etsbaby · Sep 10, 2008

Hello!

I have a collegue's whose wife had a stillbirth 2 days ago. Does anyone know if they can do birth and death certificate? or it will be just death certificate or no certificate at all? The stillbirth happen at about 38weeks.

I can't give the advise on this as my stillbirth happen at 24 weeks. Thought I read somewhere that can register as long as after 28 weeks?

I am trying to give them support & help as much as I could.

jasmum · Sep 10, 2008

etsbaby,
so sorry to hear the sad news...
yes, 28 gestation weeks onwards will have to do the death cert. the hospital will have all the require forms, info and advise. best to check with the staff nurse of the ward handling her.
hugs !!

etsbaby · Sep 10, 2008

Thanks! Jasmum,

I have conveyed the message and they will check with the hospital. Think they are still in a state of shock and didnt know what to do as it was unexpected. Other colleagues didnt know what to say or handle cos only I have experienced a stillbirth before.

Kinda sad when I heard the news yesterday, I cried like tap water in the morning when I heard it cos it reminds me of my little angel up in heaven and those difficult times, time passes..it has been 1.5yrs since my girl passing. Sad to know that someone experiencing the same as us.

hugs to all the mummies here!

jasmum · Sep 10, 2008

38wks... so "sayang" do hope she'll be able to find out what had happened... thru' an autopsy... it's the "only best" way to find out what had happened...
indeed no amount of comforting words will help her at this point of time... do let her cry and be there to hug and lend her shoulders...

she'll need support too, in storing away baby items... so maybe help to pass on the message to her family members, to try as much to put aside the baby stuffs, (while she is still at the hospital) and only in time (which will be a while) she may take the steps and put things away.

honestly, i do wonder... why so many and so often there is news of stillbirth & M/c... *sigh*

just look, alone on this forum site itself, a thread for M/c, almost every month there is a 'new report'... *sigh* what is happening... is it the food, the air, the water... we all come from all walks of life and yet... there is such tragedy news...

do take care... and let her know, we are a group of ladies here for virtual reality support.

sweetieminnie · Sep 10, 2008

Hi etsbaby,

<hugs> I had my baby girl's death cert. done by the hospital. Mine was at Mt. E. It's a piece of hand-written paper and the sad thing is..i can't have her name stated on it..as it's not registered as 'born'.My hubby was the one who has to lodge some kind of police report and handled the cremation with the casket co. We used trinity casket..there is also singapore casket and has to decide on burial/cremation/niche, etc..

My personal experience is.. i was too shocked to register what was happening, even after i've delivered her. My personal advise is.. to take their time to cuddle their baby, talk to her, shower her and clothe her before, finally..letting her go.. (she could also have her baby's foot prints). And have a heart to heart talk on the mode of burial/cremation, if health permits, she may like to attend the burial/cremation. Do not let others do decide it for them.. cos' till today..am still harping on it.. Do let me know if you need further clarifications.

sweetieminnie · Sep 10, 2008

just my 2 cents worth of opinion..hope it helps..

As Jasmum mentioned, we are a group of ladies here for virtual reality support.. i've personally gained lots of support from all of them..As we are the only ones who can really understand the pain and who are able to comfort one another.

We will pray for her..

monster · Sep 10, 2008

Greeting,ladies...

1)Is there a death cert? No,don't think s

fficially,it will be registered in the registry as stillbirth & will be stated as "son of XXX or daughter of XXX",but there is no birth cert,so there will be no death cert.

OMG,this is really so sad.at 38 wks.so close,yet so far.i tell ppl this is such a painful experience that no one should ever have to go thru' it.My heart goes out to that lady & her family.A friend who also experienced stillbirth (2nd pregnancy)told me this will no doubt be the saddest part of my life,but i will definitely get thru' it.

I have since moved on.I still think of my baby every now & then,esp since my EDD is approaching.I keep thinking:hiyah,if all went well,i'll be giving birth in a couple of weeks.but wat to do? that sort of feeling.I don't cry over it now,but i still feel the tinge of saddness.

Strangely,reading that someone had experienced a stillborn brought tears to my eyes.I don't know y.I'm not even thinking of my own experience,but I'm thinking of painful it is for that person & her family to have to go thru' this.

I'm glad i stumbled upon this forum.you ladies gave me great support.coz like i've said,i can never speak to my hubby abt this.he will think i'm stuck in a rut if i talk abt this.but sometimes,talking abt it helps me get over it.

Juz the other day,I heard this kid saying to another kid,"Chloe is taller than him." i didn't cry upon hearing the name Chloe.& this little gal pronounced Chloe so cutely as Chlo-E.Instead,I'm glad I chose such a lovely name for my beloved daughter.

My darling baby has brought so much joy & hope to my family,but at the same time,also caused so much pain...& she did all these even b4 she was born.But all things happen for a reason.

I'm going to c a haematologist on Fri.Eager to hear wat he/she says.But i've come to a conclusion that no matter which gynae I c,how often I'm monitored,there is nothing more anyone can do.If it happens again,it happens...The only thing the gynae can do is start me on Asprin/Heparin.But it can still happen.I pray it doesn't.

sweetieminnie · Sep 10, 2008

Hi Monster,

You are right. I've just flipped through my file, it is 'The registration of births & death act (chapter 267): Notification of a still-birth. sorry for the wrong info, i've always thought it's a death cert..

Yesterday, i overheard a relative who has just given birth the day before. tears welled up in my eyes..as her edd was a month after mine..i missed my little angel..my heart aches and spent the night crying..
yes..i do concur, husbands grieve differently from us..they are goal/task orientated..they would thought we are stuck in the rut. crying and talking about it is an outlet for me..till today, am still not sure how and why my baby died..

etsbaby · Sep 11, 2008

Thanks! jasmum, monster and sweetie,

so sad hor, not being able to register baby's name anywhere. I bot a ring and engrave my angel's name on it as a momento.

me too also dunno why it happened but we moved on and try not to harp on it too much but keep our angels deep in our hearts.

sweetieminnie · Sep 11, 2008

etsbaby,

my heart aches for your friend.. after reading what happened, it brought tears to my eyes till now. The pain is too intense for any human to bear.. Did the gynae manage to find out the cause?

I've been reading the entire thread time and again..and still couldn't control my tears.. forgive me if am being too emotional..

monster · Sep 13, 2008

Hello ladies,

It's me again.Sweetie,do u know u're not the only one who scrolls thru' this whole forum? & u're not the only one whose tears flow freely for those who have lost their darling babies.I do that too.I find a lot of consolation in seeking support from those in the same situation.

& to all u ladies out there who have helped me in my most difficult time,i thank u fr the bottom of my heart.

estbaby,y don't u get ur friend to join this thread.I think she'll find it helpful.

I went to see a haematologist this afternoon.i'm eager to know the result of the blood test.saw an interesting poster entitled:Successful pregnancy is possible even with rheumatic diesase.

Read the poster,some things juz came to my mind.my identical twin sis was tested for lupus & doc found elevated lupus antigen in her.'sticky blood' is a clinical sign of lupus.though my sis does not have lupus,but elevated antigen levels may have some clinical relevance in this case.I don't know my blood test result yet.

had a conversation with hubby over this.i find him getting more & more distant w.r.t having kids.it was him who wanted kids so much & who displayed signs of ready fatherhood when i was expecting.but after the stillbirth,there was a change in attitude.I'm very disappointed.he said i have 'bad blood'.i find it extremely insulting.seems like he's blaming me.i feel terrible having lost the baby & i have to deliver the baby!& earlier,he said he's prepared not to have a baby if doc finds something wrong with me.I say I will try all i can to have a baby.& he said his friends who recently had babies were not overly excited abt the baby,that's y they have healthy babies.As in,they didn't 'talk' to the baby in the tummy,they didn't call the baby names,they didn't plan the baby's life etc.he said if u want something so badly in life,it will be taken away fr u coz life is cruel.i think that's absolute nonsense.I'm the sort of person who will try my very best to have something i want & it's only when i try my very best time & time again i fail,i will then say i give up.i'm not going down without a fight.how ironic are my hubby's words.he was the one who said we should start deciding which sch the child will attend coz if we want that particular sch,have to plan early to join alumni/volunteer etc.& he was the one who changed to a bigger car for the baby.i didn't want to pick a quarrel,so i juz rolled my eyes & bit my tongue.

sigh...i'm so disappointed with my hubby.if he decides ultimately not to have kids,then i may move on in life w/o him & find myself a man who would like to try & have kids despite my condition (if the blood test reveals something).I know it's a very drastic move,but having kids is such an impt aspect of my life that i will try & try & try.coz i believe watever condition i have can be managed with medication.if even with medication,it still doesn't result in a smooth pregnancy,then i will give up.

this seems like such a nightmare.once it's over,life goes back to original.

if only my hubby knows wat goes on in my mind.if only he knew i wanted the baby as much as he did.if only he was more supportive.if only.....

monster · Sep 14, 2008

Hello ladies,

Juz wanting to share.I had my 1st 'outing' to hubby's aunt's place to celebrate his grandad's b'day last night.I always tot nothing of it,coz life has returned to normal.but a strange emotion overwhelmed me the moment i stepped into the lift lobby.all of a sudden,there was this screaming voice in my head that told me to turn back & not go.i think it's coz i'm afraid everyone will ask me how i am,talk abt this etc.but i told myself i can't be hiding.so i took a deep breath & walked towards the BBQ pit.no choice.if i keep avoiding it,i will never desensitise myself to that sort of feeling whenever i go to such functions.

it turned out ok,had an enjoyable time.food was good,all the expensive food.haha.

i'm now tracking my menstrual cycle,hoping to get pregnant again.hubby mentioned y it's so easy for ppl who don't want babies to have babies,& for ppl like us who want babies,it's so difficult.i told him (took the opputunity since he brought up the subject)it's not that we can't have babies,it's juz that we need to take precautions during the pregnancy.felt so good after telling him that coz in his mind,he thinks we can't have babies.wat a bugger.

Mylollipopdays · Sep 14, 2008

estbaby, i felt heartbroken to read of your colleague's wife's stillbirth. In Singapore, only babies who are livebirth who be able to get a birth cert and a death cert, regardless of gestation weeks. I had a friend (whom I knew through this forum too) who experienced the same thing, her baby just stopped moving at 37weeks and the next thing she knew, her baby had a cord accident (coiled around the neck leading to suffocation)

it's devastating and sickening feeling to lose a child, be it 24 weeks or 38weeks, it's the same feeling of loss and shock. You can advise your colleague to be extra tender to his wife during this time of bereavement, let her go through the full month of confinement and allow themselves room to grieve for this child whom they've lost.

With my first stillborn, we created a journal book for him. With the twins, a blog. We need an outlet to express the pain and grief inside and we need fellow sojourners who have walked down this dark and painful road of child bereavement to tell us there's hope for tomorrow. If your colleague's wife ever need to speak to one of us, please let her know we'll be more than willing to embrace her and weep with her.

Mylollipopdays · Sep 14, 2008

Dear Mummies,

you can have your angels' names listed in the Book of Life at this Shrine of the Holy Innocents and they'll email you a 'Certificate of Life' in memory of your baby.

What touches me is here, a candle is always lit in their memory and people stop to pray for these babies all day long. And on the first Monday of every Month, their 12:15 pm Mass is celebrated in honor of the children whose names are inscribed in the Book of Life. All my 3 babies' names are inside and I hope one day I can personally visit the Church to look for their names in the Book of Life.

Estbaby, please help to direct this website to your colleague and his brave wife. I hope this will bring some consolation to their hurting hearts. http://www.innocents.com/shrine.asp

monster · Sep 15, 2008

Hello ladies,

Every time i read a post in this thread,my tears flow.Does this happen to anyone else? Today,I read a comment in facebook & realised another friend is due around the same time as me.I haven't been in contact with her recently,but earlier this yr when we were in contact.Sigh...that juz brought up emotions.& i've been thinking of it for a good part of the day.

How long does it take to get over this? when a person has another baby? Guess not.I think I will never get over this...sigh.I juz feel so terribly sad. & the worse part is i cannot tell my hubby all these emotions coz he will think i'm still not over it & he gets upset that i'm still not over it.strange,right? & wat i'm afraid of is he will not want another child for fear of a stillbirth happening again & me not being able to handle it.he has actually mentioned it b4.how strange,right? for a person who wants a baby so badly to change his mind suddenly

pegsfur · Sep 15, 2008

Monster,

U can post your thoughts here when you feel sad since u can't talk to your hubby abt your emotions. I think all of us here will lend you a listening ear

I had the same problem with you initially, and i guess alot of the ladies here too, that their hubbis seem unconcerned or could get over the incident very fast. I guess they grieve inside, cos they know that if they fall & cry out like us, we ladies wld feel even more emotional.

There are alot of times when i think of Owen and can't help but feel depressed. I cry in the bathroom when i'm taking a bath. Once i finished my bath, i stopped crying as well. This happened almost every day in the initial 3 months. After that, the crying gets lesser.

It's been 9 mths since Owen left. The pain in my heart has lessened and i know that i will heal, just that it had left a scar inside. Sometimes I still teared when i think of Owen.

Maybe you both shld wait awhile before talking to your hubby abt trying for baby again? It could be that he's not ready yet.

monster · Sep 19, 2008

Hello ladies,

I'm so happy to share with all of u that i've survived my 1st 'baby gathering'.I know how everyone feels abt being around friends/family with babies.It's difficult,it's painful,it's horrible.

I was invited to a wedding dinner & this is the group of my hubby's friends who have kids ranging fr 1+ to a few mths old.I dreaded going to the wedding,& hubby couldn't go coz it was a weekday night (he had something else on).So,I went.Tot of not going,but I'm happy for the marrying couple & I tot it'll be rude not to attend since hubby isn't attending.I prepared myself days to attend this dinner.sounds so psycho,right? I actually had to psych myself to go thru' a piercing,shooting pain thru' my heart.

So there i was,surrounded by all the couples with kids,happily showing off their babies.I don't blame them for being insensitive,coz if i had a baby,i'll be showing her/him off too.who wouldn't.I never tot i could touch anyone of their babies,but i did.i felt regretful for wat happened to my darling baby,but that was it.several times during the dinner,i felt,"wat if i didn't lose the baby...I would be heavily pregnant by now & prob ready to give birth anytime."at 1 point in time,i even surprised myself by thinking:seeing all of them have babies,I am more motivated to have a healthy baby the next time.strange that i'll feel this way instead of upset.My only consolation (& I always use that to make myself feel better),I'm the youngest of them all,so i can still furfil my dream of being a hot mama even if i conceive next yr.Age has always been a factor on my mind,though i'm under 30.But i've always wanted to be a young mum,juz like my mum.No more chance now.As long as i can have a baby b4 i'm 30,I think i should be thankful.

So yeah...I've survived 1 round.Now,it's surviving round 2.All my aunts are going to US for the birth of my cousin's daughter.I feel so 'blah' sometimes.i feel so jealous sometimes.i feel like crying.I don't feel like congratulating my cousin.So i use the same thing to make myself feel better.his wife is 33,i'm younger.i feel much better after telling myself this.

juz that day,a colleague mentioned how brave i am,how well i'm coping.I don't know.they don't see me crying,that's y they all think i'm superwoman.now i'm trying for another baby.i hope it won't be too difficult.& i hope all will go well.man,i will put myself thru' anything to have a healthy baby.i get very angry with friends who are so irresponsible,handing care of the baby to maids.i feel they are not prepared to be parents if they don't want to care for the child.at the dinner,hubby's best friend told me he felt so lost w/o maid.daughter was crying so much,they decided to go home earlier,i assume to hand the baby over to the maid.sigh...if i have the chance,i'll be caring for the baby by myself coz he/she will be such a precious darling.

juz out of curiousity,has anyone in this forum met up?

sweetieminnie · Sep 20, 2008

Monster,

I admire your courage in the primary steps towards gatherings. I wished i could be in my own world for a couple of months before resurfacing out again. hehe..i know it's impossible, no amount of time would take my pain away. i got to face all these, it's just a matter of time.My hubby's side is enough to 'kill' me, let alone my circle of friends with babies. sometimes i would even 'rehearse' to myself on the qns they would ask..and i would teared at the thought of it. On the other hand, if they pretend that my baby does not exist and avoided the topic, i would be upset...how ironic..sigh..everthing goes on so well during each gynae visit, saw her kicking so actively each time. and few days later, she just stopped moving..with no signs of contraction, bleeding,etc. after delivery, no apparent cause was found..which drove me so devastated. I've no idea on how to take any precaution for the next pregnancy, which am having phobia now.

I've the same sentiments as you. I would teared each round i read a post. i guess all mummies here felt the same heartache for everyone, who have been through the difficult times, really understand.. i've gained lots of support here.Others would advise me to stop reading forums(as they thought it would slow down my recovery). I do not know how to explain to them how this thread has helped me. My hubby has been very supportive, my family, in-laws, SIL,BIL, etc too. They have helped me lots during my hospitalisation and am really grateful to them . but still, am the one who is carrying the baby, been through the process..whom they might not totally understand. This thread is a great way to release..

Have a great weekend!

monster · Sep 20, 2008

Hi sweetie,

I teared after reading ur post.U're very lucky to have ur hubby's support.For me,if i talk abt this to my hubby,we'll definitely quarrel coz he'll think i'm still not over it.how can anyone every get over this? we can move on,but to get over this? i don't think that's possible.the next step for me to get over is my EDD.7 Oct.i don't know how i'm going to cope,seriously.like u,i do rehearse how to react to friends who have babies,esp those who have delivered recently.one of hubby's good friend's wife recently delivered & i told hubby even if they invite us to the baby's 1 mth celebration,i'm not going to go.surprisingly,hubby said he has no intention to go as well.

Sweetie,is ur lost baby the 1st pregnancy? I read somewhere (unfortunately,I forgot the source) that most late fetal lost is due to some sort of thrombophilia.Have u got tested for that? 9 tubes of blood were taken fr me for some tests for thrombophilia.I've also requested for a test for lupus as my twin sis was tested for elevated levels of lupus antigen (but with no clinical signs of lupus,therefore,no significance).I do think (with whatever med knowledge I have) that late fetal loss happens due to some reason.it's seldom unexplained.It may be a reason that has not been investigated.have u tot of going thru' a thrombophilia test? it's quite ex thought.$887 at NUH.I knew all these tests will be ex,so i got a referral fr polyclinic so that it'll be more managable.in the end,i paid only $97.

I'm awaiting the blood test result.I'll be off for a short hol next week,and when i return,the truth will be out there.I'm going to ask the haematologist wat she thinks abt having daily heparin shots in addition to the asprin that has been planned for the next pregnancy.I will so jab myself 10 times a day or do anything to have another baby.sometimes,i feel excited at the prospect of having another baby,then i think abt my lost baby,i cry again.Just then,while waiting in the car for hubby,i looked up at the clear,dark sky & i cried coz i tot of my lovely baby.she must be up there in heaven & i told her mummy & daddy misses her a lot.she would have been 1 lucky gal if she was destined to be our child.even b4 she was born,while in my tummy,she went to the maldives,to australia,travelled business class etc.i'm glad she had shared these experiences with us.

Yeah,i'm very thankful i chanced upon this forum.all u gals out there have been great support.

Actually,I've already decided how i want to manage my next pregnancy.yeah,ppl in my occupation are all control freaks! haha.& i'm lucky i have access to the specialist etc coz it's very helpful to speak to them.my colleague's bro is a neonatologist.I plan to deliver the next baby prematurely,but i don't know at which wk,so i'll seek the opinion of my gynae & the neonatologist.

i'm working on pregnancy no.2.hehe.It seems a bit fast & i took my MMR jab only 1 mth ago.but studies have shown these jabs are safe,though docs recommend waiting at least 3 mths.my gynae even said 6 mths.but time is of essence here.time & tide awaits no man.yeah,like i've said,i'm a control freak.

To all u brave gals out there who have survived this ordeal,have a great weekend.

sweetieminnie · Sep 21, 2008

Hi Monster,

Yes..my little angel is my 1st baby. i've read a couple of books and internet resources, up to 50% of the still-birth cases, they are unable to find any reasons. Am very keen in doing the blood test. Did your gynae diagnose your case as thrombophilia? Is there any significant cause found after the delivery that she suspected it was thrombophilia? Where was the blood clot found? During my confinement period, while reading this thread, i've actually asked if my case was linked to thrombophilia. Gynae does not suspect it as the caused as my blood count, etc (forgot the exact terms she used) is okie. Following visit, i enquired if there is any blood test again.. till my gynae told me she really can't give me any reasons. Couple of days ago(went for my pap smear), i've enquired if there should be further blood test done.. she mentioned the normal glucose test, etc which is to prepare for the next pregnancy. Deep down in my heart, i wanted to know the caused for the death of my angel(how can anyone accept with no reasons?) and what are the preventive steps. I've no idea why she did not recommend me for further such tests when i asked her time and again.

oh, i could go to the polyclinic and ask for a referral on this test? Thanks for the valuable information!

monster · Sep 21, 2008

Dear Sweetie,

Isn't this whole experience so much more painful since it's the 1st born? so much anticipation,so much joy,so much expectations...u know,i bought so many pretty clothes for my baby gal.shoes,hat etc.all fr overseas somemore.

No,gynae did not mention thrombophilia,which i tot was quite strange,since it'll be the 1st suspected cause of a blood clot.my case was diagnosed as blood clot in placenta,maternal side.i took it upon myself to get tested for thrombophilia.i want to do watever i can within my ability for the next pregnancy,otherwise if this happens again (touch wood),i'll always ask myself,wat if...gynae is sort of a friend coz we know mutual friends,most of them in the med/dental circle.i rang her to tell her i'm taking the thrombophilia test.she didn't think it's necessary,but said to tell her wat the haematologist says anyway.

I'll be on asprin for the next pregnancy once a heartbeat has been detected.maybe u can suggest to ur gynae u want to go on asprin,since it's not harmful to the foetus coz it doesn't cross the placenta.i'm even thinking of taking daily heparin jabs.anything i can do to have a successful pregnancy the next time.i don't know why my gynae thinks this intrauterine death is not a worry at all.of course it's a worry,considering how traumatic it is.

I'll let u know wat the haematologist says abt my case.i'm seeing her again on Fri,10 Oct.my EDD is coming,i don't know how i'm going to cope.

anyway,who is ur gynae?

sweetieminnie · Sep 22, 2008

Monster,

I bought some pretty stuffs for my little angel on her EDD and released it into the sea. In addition, i've also bought precious thots figurines since i've no pictures of her. it's my way of remembering her..that mummy and daddy will always rem & love her..

Was the blood clot stated in your histopathology report, under diagnosis: placenta and umbilical cord? As i was looking at my report, which states no diagnostic pathology seen. Actually, gynae mentioned it might/suspected be due to umbilical cord as two loops were found around her legs and a small area of cord thinning near to the baby's belly button (but with no twist or fold found). As she was hyper active the night before..Gynae has a patient whose baby's belly button cord was so thin to the extend that it might cut off oxygen.but again, it's only a suspect..no confirm answer, hence she commented that she really cannot give me any reasons.

My gynae is Dr Kek Lee Phin, from KeK LP clinic at Mt. E. Is yours Dr Ann Tan? As i've heard many patients from the medical fields go to her.

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