Yes it was on 14/8
IVF/ICSI Support Group
- Thread starter tomatoes
- Start date
I went to pulse tcm at Wheelock. Ya I Guess so.
reddesk
Well-Known Member
Your beta should be good on mon. How many embryos did you trsf?
reddesk
Well-Known Member
How old are you if you don’t mind sharing
I transferred 2
reddesk
Well-Known Member
did the doc mention of your chance to have twins?
I mean I transferred 2 embryos so there is chance of having twins. I want twins
Dreamscometrue
Well-Known Member
U have any symptoms during the tww
Not really. Just a bit of back pain
Dreamscometrue
Well-Known Member
I see! Mine was after Xmas, if few days later will be Jan also. Haha.. did u have any symptoms during ur tww?Haha she’s a Jan’19 baby!yep yep gave birth at NUH..
Dreamscometrue
Well-Known Member
I see! Hope all ladies on tww will all get BFP!
endowarrior
New Member
No symptoms except for one day - think 6/7 days after transfer? Had quite bad cramping and felt like AF was coming.. but just for that day. Really felt as if my uterus was prepping for af.. but after that no more symptoms.
Dreamscometrue
Well-Known Member
I see.. did u do endo scratch?
Just failed my 3rd FET again, n felt so lost. First FET bfn with 2 day 5 blastocysts, 2nd FET ended up with very low hcg bfp on 1 day 5 blastocyst (hcg managed to rise double for about 1.5 weeks, but it is already expected to be a non viable pregnancy at the start as hcg is very low to begin with). This time is my 3rd FET, with 1 day 6 blastocyst but bfn. I m now left with 1 day 5 blastocyst and 3 day 6 blastocyst. I know i need to continue on to try out with the remaining, but is there anything I can work on? I understood that embryo transfer doesn't really matter btw docs, and definitely don't think there is much fault with the transfer technique. But feeling so depressed n lost to have failed 3 FET. Couldn't sleep for the whole night thinking over it. N asking myself if is normal to fail that much n why why why.
Since I managed to pass implantation stage for my 2nd FET with doubling hcg for 1.5 weeks, there should not b much issue with the womb. I m wondering if I should get myself prepared for the next fresh cycle with pgs. As much as possible, I hope not to move on with another fresh cycle, the side effects r rather significant on me, heavy water retention n weight gain of almost 8kg. Till now, I couldn't even shred off the weight gain after 1.5 years. Feeling so lost
Since I managed to pass implantation stage for my 2nd FET with doubling hcg for 1.5 weeks, there should not b much issue with the womb. I m wondering if I should get myself prepared for the next fresh cycle with pgs. As much as possible, I hope not to move on with another fresh cycle, the side effects r rather significant on me, heavy water retention n weight gain of almost 8kg. Till now, I couldn't even shred off the weight gain after 1.5 years. Feeling so lost
Did you try endo scratching or intripid infusion ?
Hi Kb92,
Yes I did have endo scratch for my 2nd n 3rd fet. At least it proves to work for my 2nd fet to succeed the implantation.
What is intripid infusion n how does it work ? I m doing mine in nuh n my doc usually will ask me to try n try with the same medicated fet method, n don't think there is much need to proceed with other investigations or option.
Thanks Kb92 for the sharing. Is it like a one session thing some days b4 the transfer ? I can try asking my doc again over my next review.
Dreamscometrue
Well-Known Member
Nuh doesn't have this infusion. Only available in certain pte clinics
Hi Dreamscometrue, Kb92,
Just curious. Is it needed to go for blood test to check for NK cells level prior to deciding to proceed with Intralipid infusion ? I did bring up the idea of checking my immune level to my nuh doc, but she always told me no need to. Just try again, the embryos quality probably not good or no luck this time. But the fact is it is emotionally draining to repeat the cycle again n again with all the medicines n hl leave.
Which pte clinic r u all with ? If I want to have that, that means I need to move out all my remaining embryos to pte clinic ? At this point, I have used up all the funding for frozen cycles.
eatpraylove
Member
Your doctor might be right. It is likely to be egg quality. Maybe you can do PGS on the embryos first to at least eliminate the issue before going through the hassle of changing clinic? Once eliminated, then intralipid infusion may be useful for implantation issue.
Hi eatpraylove,
If i want to do pgs, I need to start a fresh cycle as this is not allowed on existing frozen embryos. I still have 4 more, n definitely hope to give every of them a fair chance. N there r some criteria for pgs if I m not wrong. I will be 34 this year, but pgs only allows for 35 n above (if I m not wrong).
Oh is it ? I didn’t know about that.
eatpraylove
Member
Thank you for the context! Does nuh provide bloodtest for NK cells? If they are reluctant to it, maybe can go private clinics to request for the blood test separately first?
The lipid infusion need to do 3 times. Before transfer and another 2 times when you are pregnant.
I’m with dr Kelly from mount E. Yes if you want to do at mount E, you have to transfer your embryos which is a bit expensive and troublesome cuz I did it from NUH to Mount E. Since you don’t have anymore embryos, I suggest you do either fresh or frozen at mount E. Which doctor from NUH are you with ?
Checking NK cell blood test is fairly expensive so I rather just do the lipid infusion. And yes you should do the workup which is a lot of blood tests. That’s what I did after 2nd FET failed
I think will need them to recommend to another clinic in nuh. If I m not wrong, nuh chr itself don't do that. But usually chr won't really recommend.
I still have 4 frozen embryos in nuh. How is d costs n procedure of transferring them out to pte ? Just curious, what made u decide to transfer out of nuh ? Ya I heard from my tcm that it involves a lot of blood test. I m the rare freak who need to spend many round just to get 1 tube of blood, almost chr nurses can remember me for this. My veins most collapse when the needle goes in, need to try over n over again
Dreamscometrue
Well-Known Member
Well, after 4 failed transfer and 1 mc, I went to check a whole bunch of blood test under nuh recurrent preg loss clinic under Dr Mahesh (not sure if I spelt correctly). I went under subsidised if not it will cost a bomb!
By then I've already used up my embryos and govt grant in govt hosp. By then I also went to another pte clinic for fresh cycle. But in the end I did not have autoimmune issue. Nk cell was slightly elevated, fertility doc says no issue.
By the way, u can receive ur intralipds infusion at pte clinic without doing any cycle or transfer with them. So u dont have to transfer ur embryos to them
Dreamscometrue
Well-Known Member
Yes they do, but they believe that failed implant rarely caused by high NK cells so its seldom tested.
Thanks for all these info. May I know for ur case, do u find out further root cause for your past transfer fails (since nk cell is likely not the key reason)? When u move out to pte, is there any major difference in the ivf method that u think could have brought u to succeed ?
Currently, I m still comfortable with nuh chr in general. I m also grateful to my doc n the team who managed to succeed 8 blastocyst for us. But i just keep failing at the transfer stage. N seem like they just want me to try n try the same way again (just a matter of luck). If there r better options, i don't mind exploring further.
Is there any pte clinic u recommend for doing Intralipid infusion?
Thanks.
Dreamscometrue
Well-Known Member
I also have easily collapsible veins, and I only have 1 that can draw blood from
The series of blood test requires 12 or 15 tubes of blood.. and will cost alot if u do under pte...
eatpraylove
Member
I think this solves the problem! Can you recommend the clinic to do the separate infusion? May want to consider in the future! Thank you!
Dreamscometrue
Well-Known Member
My issue is I have low ovarian reserve for my age.
After went pte clinic, we used low dosage stimulation to get better quality. So in the end only have 2. First FET failed. 2nd FET dr recommended lucrin jab to stop menses b4 start FET. That cycle worked
Intralipds didn't work for me. I did once at SF loh clinic and another 1 at another clinic at mt E novena, recommended by Dr Sheila
reddesk
Well-Known Member
hugs. Sorry to hear your loss and feelings. Have you check for other stuff like thyroid and if you have natural killer cells? I remember these are some factors some docs have the mummies checked for. It’s good to hear you did manage to conceive once and it he’ll give you relief your womb had no issues. You still have 4embryos, be strong. I am also in tww for my 3rd fet. Single embryo trsf. Past 2 fets has failed too. I know how you feel. But be strong for the rest of the embryos. Rest and see what you can do next. You have embryos that are quite developed; have hope!!
I did it due to covid situation. It was around mid Feb NUH stopped all IVF and it cost me about 400+ I think may be it is easier to transfer them over since now it is not so strict.
haha yes a few tubes of blood. I think it is better to do the blood test and see if anything wrong
reddesk
Well-Known Member
Nuh only allow PGS if you suspect a medical condition and it will involved elimination of one gender. The reason nuh still do non blastocyst traf is because there is no significance in success rate whether it’s a d3 or d5. It is the same with PGS study they had conducted too. If you suspect you have NK, you can request for test. Nuh does it and they have a specialised sector for people with recurrent losses (miscarriages) hence they do those IVIG/intralip infusion.
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Haha ya, same here. I also only have 1 deep vein that worked. Sometimes it may not even worked. I may end up spend 1 hour plus in d clinic just to draw 1 tube. Chr nurses recognised me for that
I see, thanks for the info. Why stopping menses b4 FET help?
For my case, I had severe endometriosis and had surgery to remove some years back. But v soon, it recurred n recommend to try ivf to race against the growth. N i also v reluctant to go for surgery to remove the new cyst again. my nuh dr is quite pro, managed to retrieve quite a good no of eggs even with the cyst there.
Thanks for the concerns, all d best to you too
Ya. Visually, my embryos r considered quite good grade. My recent one is day 6 AA grade, but i understand that sometimes visual might not be accurate. I haven't done any tests b4. I m just narrowing down to embryos quality or immune issue, since i really can't find any other reason. Lining wise, I had 9mm with triple lining (considered not bad).
reddesk
Well-Known Member
Your embryos sounds good actually. All the best.
eatpraylove
Member
Since pgs is out until you do fresh and qualify the requirements, another alternative way to get a glimpse of possible egg quality aside blastocyst grading is your follicle growth during stimulations. Based on TCM advice, usually good quality eggs respond better to stimulations - i.e. they reach around 10mm at day 5 and/or around 12mm on day 7.
Angelica Cheng
Active Member
Dear najnaj,
Please take note of the controversy surrounding PGS with regards to Mosaic embryos, which have a mixture of normal and abnormal cells. These are often tested to be genetically abnormal by PGS, but in fact can give rise to normal healthy births.
As seen in the attached diagram of a blastocyst stage embryo, the ICM gives rise to the embryo, while the TE gives rise to the placenta and yolk sac. Testing a few cells from the TE only gives you a probability about what's going on in the ICM. An embryo with abnormal (aneuploid) TE but normal ICM most likely will still make a healthy baby.
Hence, by discarding such mosaic embryos that are tested abnormal during PGS, one would lower the cumulative chances of IVF success:
Please see the following video podcasts. It describes the risk of PGS resulting in no embryos left for the patients to transfer:
In fact, the latest scientific news demonstrate that mosaic embryos can self-correct and give rise to normal births ! PGS / PGT-A may not even be necessary !
Here are some relevant articles:
Self-correction and the potential of mosaic embryos to implant
www.focusonreproduction.eu
Are mosaic embryos the 'dark horse' of IVF?
Not every embryo contains 46 perfect chromosomes. Some have more, others have fewer. The result is a common abnormality known as aneuploidy, which occurs in as many as 80 percent of human embryos.
Genetic testing IVF embryos doesn’t improve the chance of a baby
Women aged over 35 are sometimes offered genetic testing of their IVF embryos to rule out abnormalities. But it’s expensive and doesn’t increase their chance of a baby. In fact, it could reduce it.
theconversation.com
Abnormal cells in early-stage embryos might not preclude IVF success
The presence of an abnormal number of chromosomes in the genetic profile of early-stage embryos may be far more common - and potentially less threatening - during normal human development than is currently appreciated, according to new research from biologists.
www.sciencedaily.com
Abnormal cells in embryos might not prevent IVF success
Study shows that chromosomal abnormalities in embryos may be more common than previously thought, may lead to development of healthy babies during IVF
hub.jhu.edu
The transfer of chromosomally 'abnormal' embryos can still result in pregnancy in IVF: New study helps resolve controversy over self-correcting 'mosaic' embryos
IVF embryos whose cells have mixed chromosomal profiles -- one normal, another abnormal -- still have the potential to implant in the uterus and become a healthy pregnancy, according to a new study.
www.sciencedaily.com
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Dreamscometrue
Well-Known Member
I've no idea how it helps. The doc explained it to 'reset' the womb condition. I mean I've tried all means and no harm trying. Turned out to work for me.
I did lap to remove fibroids too but that didn't help as well.. alot of trial and error.
Maybe u can try endo scratch and transfer 2 embryos instead? And acupuncture?
I did BFP with twins b4 under Prof pc wong, but too bad ended with mc.
I don't think u need to transfer ur embryos out to pte clinic to do the FET, cos transfer technique is just like that lor, no big difference. Hope ur next cycle will be a success!
Thanks for the hearty conversation. I was crying for the whole night as though the world collapsed again
Ya I did endo scratch since 2nd fet n it worked (at least implantation happened), so continued with endo scratch this round too. I also go tcm regularly, n taking tcm herb concurrently this round. The previous FET I stopped going acpuncture after the transfer, n did not coupled with tcm herb. This time round, I did go once after d transfer.
Haha, putting 2 embryos is kinda mentally stress based on my first FET experience. Maybe after all, it was my first trial n pin a lot of hopes on the best 2 embryos (don't even dare to sleep on d side at all for my FET). Ya, I m thinking to put 2 next time.
Dreamscometrue
Well-Known Member
I cried after each failed attempts, think its normal.. its all about luck I feel. All the best!
reddesk
Well-Known Member
It’s good to hear these other stuff. I didn’t go into deeper research so thanks for the sharing! The living cells are so diverse and able to work itself out. Methods and standards are at best working to correct itself and often lives are sacrificed. An analogy would be trying to grade a kid too early and ostracised the kid which he/she eventually turn out to be just a late deverloper who is eventually successful. Your sharing is helpful to bring caution to PGS and the hype surrounding it. ThanksDear najnaj,
Please take note of the controversy surrounding PGS with regards to Mosaic embryos, which have a mixture of normal and abnormal cells. These are often tested to be genetically abnormal by PGS, but in fact can give rise to normal healthy births.
As seen in the attached diagram of a blastocyst stage embryo, the ICM gives rise to the embryo, while the TE gives rise to the placenta and yolk sac. Testing a few cells from the TE only gives you a probability about what's going on in the ICM. An embryo with abnormal (aneuploid) TE but normal ICM most likely will still make a healthy baby.
Hence, by discarding such mosaic embryos that are tested abnormal during PGS, one would lower the cumulative chances of IVF success:
Please see the following video podcasts. It describes the risk of PGS resulting in no embryos left for the patients to transfer:
In fact, the latest scientific news demonstrate that mosaic embryos can self-correct and give rise to normal births ! PGS / PGT-A may not even be necessary !
Here are some relevant articles:
Self-correction and the potential of mosaic embryos to implant
Are mosaic embryos the 'dark horse' of IVF?
Not every embryo contains 46 perfect chromosomes. Some have more, others have fewer. The result is a common abnormality known as aneuploidy, which occurs in as many as 80 percent of human embryos.medicalxpress.com
Genetic testing IVF embryos doesn’t improve the chance of a baby
Women aged over 35 are sometimes offered genetic testing of their IVF embryos to rule out abnormalities. But it’s expensive and doesn’t increase their chance of a baby. In fact, it could reduce it.
Abnormal cells in early-stage embryos might not preclude IVF success
The presence of an abnormal number of chromosomes in the genetic profile of early-stage embryos may be far more common - and potentially less threatening - during normal human development than is currently appreciated, according to new research from biologists.www.sciencedaily.com
Abnormal cells in embryos might not prevent IVF success
Study shows that chromosomal abnormalities in embryos may be more common than previously thought, may lead to development of healthy babies during IVF
The transfer of chromosomally 'abnormal' embryos can still result in pregnancy in IVF: New study helps resolve controversy over self-correcting 'mosaic' embryos
IVF embryos whose cells have mixed chromosomal profiles -- one normal, another abnormal -- still have the potential to implant in the uterus and become a healthy pregnancy, according to a new study.www.sciencedaily.com
I see. I already 4got the growth rate of my follicles, as my ER was done mid last year. Based on what I recalled, I think my follicles can meet optimum size at around day 14 (I did TOO n 2x iui b4 embark into ivf journey).
Do you all have any experience comparing btw medicated n natural FET ? My nuh doc strongly recommended medicated as I m working n will be much tougher to try natural FET. But I always took very long to pass the lining requirements (>28 days to proceed with the transfer). Not sure if that could be a factor.
Kimchi-ger
Active Member
Can I check does kkh allows transfer of 2 blastocyst? Age 33 now... thanks.
eatpraylove
Member
I have yet to do my FET so can’t help on this. Maybe other sisters here can advise. Since you had BFP before (albeit chemical), I always believe it’s easier to conceive eventually. It’s a matter of time (and luck)! Hang in there!