Elle,
Please don't say sorry for venting here, this place is meant to share fears, dreams, and everything we can possibly share as people with very similar life experiences. As said by Tigi, its unfair and shortsighted to judge as we are not living in the same household and have not seen all that you have gone through. With the constraints, based on what you described, can I share my own experience with you and some are really quite similar to what the other sisters have described. I hope after hearing them and later me, you will not feel so alone and that you are just like a normal woman as many of us here.
Sister, my heart pain pain when I know what are you going through. From what several other sisters have described, our marriage lives have indeed gone through severe trials due a woman's (shared by each and everyone of us on this thread) basic inborn instinct and urge to be a mother. And when our men often cannot understand that inborn instinct and on top of that, our communication style is so different when faced with different issues and not just about conceiving (we are often focused and will go on and on about what needs to be done while our men will not open their mouth to complain as they often view it as a sign of weakness. Everything is forced into their little bottles as you said. By the time they open their mouths to express, they feel that they have suffered so much and that small bottle is going to explode that it is almost at the junction of no return). So its not your problem that he has masked himself, a large part of it is due to man's ego. Also, in our case, we have a special element - our fertility challenge that forms a big part of our marriage. Our men might feel that a large part of our energy is already need to get pregnant, other issues can wait and wait and wait until volcano is going to erupt.
I have had similar experience with then bf n now hubby, I thought he was ok and happy about certain things but then to my "shock", he has been so-called suffering in silence. Its only when I forced the truth out of him that he admits the unhappiness and about to explode. So pls don't question ur worth as a woman/wife/person when you know that ur hubby is unhappy with his current stage of life with you. Its not your personality that caused it, its can be simply because man are from mars are we are from venus. Also, I can feel your hurt when you know what he has confided in in his friend. I was also very hurt before when I realised during dating time that sometimes we quarrelled, he would go tell his so-called childhood friends. When I knew that, hurt, lack of confidence, hopelessness and loss of pride (we woman have pride too ok) all came to me. But I realised later than men also share this very special brotherhood that we sisters often underestimate.
Also, despite their strong physique, men can be quite timid and their threshold for suffering and pain are like their bottles because they are not built to have to go through childbearing and childbirth like us. So when your hubby did not pick up that call, he might be escaping from his unhappiness and perhaps, the fear of becoming a father. Of course only he will know but the above reasons are possibilities. Like you, I would feel totally hopelessness if that happened but it might not be a sign that he does not care, could be due to escapism.
Based on what you said, your love is still alive but you feel his is not, you just found out about his unhappiness in this marriage, he chooses to be indifferent now and he has not asked for separation. You have initiated separation but he chose to remain silent and is tries sometimes to be concerned. I am not you and you will know the best path for yourself. But can you just hear me out of what may be some alternatives. Sorry if you think I am very kaypoh but I really hope I can offer some alternatives.
Again, at the end of the day, if you still decide to be siao1 sa3 and return him the type of happiness he thinks he wants, I will give you my full support. Like you, I would be very tempted to walk out and make him happy and not force things down his throat and end up parting bitterly. But at this juncture, it is not to too to "keep in view" the situaiton for another 6months to one year as most importantly, you still love him and only just found out the situation. Not that u have found out years ago and still tying him down and make him suffer. Then that is selfish and no good. But he has to take a big part of the responsibility for shoving things into the closet and not being open with u all these years. Also, while its tempting to walk out immediately for you, think of 6 months of KIV period being a drop in the ocean vs the 10 yrs you guys spent together. During this 6 months, say one last time to him, that even if his love is gone, u still love him very much. Just say it once and its enough. Earlier, I suggested to involve him in the pregnancy but now that he is indifferent, still be nice to him and take the initiative to suggest doing nice things together but only very occassionally. If he gives me the cold shoulder, don't pursue further but still have that 6 months timeframe in mind. Give him hints that u are trying but not forcing. When he asks about baby occassionally, update him nicely and tell him u really appreciate his concern and it has made my day. Don't force it again. When the baby comes, he might or might not want to sayang the baby but leave it to him. But as miraclebaby said, a baby change a baby. Keep that open. Over these 6 months, u might have a very low self-esteem and will feel its unbearable to live with someone who is unhappy but keep reminding yourself that its just for six months and not forever. If it works out, happiness is waiting at the end of the bridge but if it doesn't, its only 6 months vs 10 years together. You may or may not want to tell him that you might want to set aside a time frame to try things out, after which, you will be siao1 sa3 and set him free to pursue the happiness he believes he deserves.
Elle, I know all this is not easy given the already heavy emotional and physical demands of pregnancy and being a FTM, that is why it might be good to wait a few months for the new role of motherhood to settle down, while don't expect anything from your hubby (or you will feel more disillusioned and disappointed if does not work) and then see how it goes after that probation period. Update us on the progress whenever you feel like it. And don't have to reply to my suggestions, its just for your to think think only when you are free.
Ok, and that is for marriage and besides marriage, the relationship between a mother and child is priceless and you are indeed blessed with that
With that little being kicking inside you and very soon, you will get to meet her, what else is more important than that. You should be about 38 weeks now, she is considered full term already.so excited for you…
!! After your little one arrives, maybe when you look at her, you will know it’s a new life ahead of you and you will be too occupied with the new role to be bothered anything else and how knows by then, your man may want to fight for a little more attention, who knows, life is so unpredictable.
Got you advice, I will try to control myself from overspending..heheee..and I way I do that is to keep reminding myself that I want to save up to provide her with an option to pursue a good education in 20 years..
Gan,
Don't think its age, think its really the hormones. Because my col told me she is equally tired while being pregnant at 32 vs pregnant at 38. Some people like us tend to be more tired. Like my sister-in-law who was pregnant two years before me, she had no morning sickness, no problems at all, not tired at all and can still mock at people who vomit and I cannot imgaine two years to make such a big diff..
Yes, denial is the word. Its amazing how MIL think universally alike..like your MIL, my MIL questioned the conclusion from scans, she said she think my gynae is wrong. Like your MIL, she also insisted mine could be a boy. I told her, if my gynae can be so wrong, I would want to change gynae immediately.
Sister, yes, rest rest rest and rest. I also underestimated the importance of resting till I realised everytime I rested more, baby put on weight faster and everytime I get busy, baby weight growth slowed down. And that includes amniotic fluid. And when u sleep, try to lie more on the left side to facilitate oxygen and blood flow to the womb. Don't walk too much, don't have any appointments on weekends that are best reserve to be spent in bed to sleep. Hope all your worries go away soon k
Tigi,
Yeah, I totally totally agree with you that for women like us, sex of baby is the last last last thing on our minds. That is why everytime I got that nonsense, I will shout in my mind "don't be so greedy lah, got baby want to ke1 tou1 to god already, still got energy to care if boy or girl meh!!!! So angry with you!!" But cannot shout out all these words, so no choice but replace with phrase to her "baby healthy can already, the rest not important". And like you, I also worry what is the path our children will walk when they start to ttc as yes, its often hereditary..that is why I have kept the to dos and not to dos for ttcing in email archive. I also sometimes worry that when Dr Zou grows old, who will be the next good sinseh to help our offsprings..heeee..I also worry too much hor..
Hopewaves,
I like your "hopewaves" name…can offer a lot of hopes here..
For people like us who have to go through more to be mothers, we will probably value this kinship more and I read before that ivf mums often have better relationships with their children over a 20 years study..so maybe its "bitter first, and sweet later".
Good luck for your this cycle and hope you can bpf with it…and by the time we meet next year, many will come with baby bumps
Will sure post here for the outing time so you can see..
Noi,
Happy to read your reply
Of course can come…it will be something I look forward to sending out first quarter of next year..new year, new hopes for all the sisters here..but how knows, maybe many can have a baby made around the festive christmas period yo
Rostrum
Pat pat too, I know the "shitty" 101%. Its like they won't rest until they see you breakdown on the spot. The feeling is so terrible that you really feel like screaming at them with the words you said right!!!Those relatives are very sad people because its either they don't have common sense or like to hear us admit we cannot conceive with ease unlike them and neither of the above are good reasons. How about next time you tell them you are in no hurry? Say something like well, I know I am not so young lah but I am still very playful leh. And then laugh like you are a small girl like that. Then say, Zoe Tay also have three kids so late. No hurry no hurry, play first, think later. Then they will probably start another lecture to tell you must bear children while young blah blah blah. Then you can say, ok, thanks for your concern loh and will think about your suggestioni and faster change topic. Actually, maybe your method of smiling and acting ignorant could be the best as when they feel no fun, they will backoff. Mostly importantly, if they are those so insensitive type, don't ever bother to share anything about doing ivf or seeing doctors or really wanting kids. If they come to know, nothing good will come out from their mouths again. Truth is that sometimes its better to sound naïve and airheaded rather than let them know what we need to do to conceive as they are some people who like to hear such things and go around spreading. Of course I hope you don't have to see this bunch of relatives for a very long time. And who knows, the next time you see them, your baby bump can speak for itself
I have asked the same question to whom I believe up there before with struggles struggles and still struggles and then Noi said it so well for us..
When you see smoking mums you feel very angry right? When you see pregnant mums who don't care about their fetus and paint their nails, dye their hair anyhow and anyhow eat you feel very angry too right? At least I do. Rostrum sister, I am sure in due time, god will give you that very dear, very precious and very prefect little one. Maybe a few you will never know. Your hardwork are prayers are definitely not unnoticed, they are just kept in the record book up there and the little ones will arrive the best possible time. Of course there will be days that you feel you cannot tahan anymore and on such days, always come here and vent and you find many voices who echo yours and won't feel alone anymore.
Lyn,
Are you feeling better? Maybe it’s the caring for your parents that has lowered your immunity for a while. Once things settle down, you must slow down and recharge k..
Wah, hey Lyn, I am very impressed by your MIL's philosophy. If only she is my MIL's neighbour, then can influence her. I am just daydreaming. Don't feel sad, given the sensibility of your MIL, she will be sad if she knows you feel that way. Also, given that you have tried, that is more important. Unless you never try, since you tried your best, you already have a crystal clear conscience isnt it.
And in the choice of adoption, I want to raise my hand that I am pro-adoption and infact, I did quite a lot of research and thinking on it. Lyn, think I told you before that I always only wanted one child if I want to have a child because I believe that I also want to spend time on other aspects in life. That thinking has been with me even before I know I have problems conceiving. So when I face conception challenges and after the failed ivf that no one embryos could be used, I explored serveral alternatives. In the end I chose the route of trying without expecting much and keep stress free with thought of no child also fine + keep the option open that in due course, maybe when I really don't want to try anymore, if I still love children very much, I will adopt a child and the three of us live happily ever after. I asked my hubby if he will consider adoption and he was not keen right now but he said who knows, many years down the road, he might change and he does not exclude the possibly of adoption. I believe his main concern at that time was his mother. He said maybe when his parents pass on, he is more keen. He suggested to him he is more keen on foster care for the time being. Foster care is also a scheme under MCYS when we can provide temporary care (a few months up to a few years and sometimes it can become permanent adoption depending on circumstances) of parenting, including staying together and caring for babies up to teenager of 18 whose parents cannot care for them either due to imprisonment, ill-treating or other circumstances.
Hb and myself both thought foster care is a good way of using our abundant love for a child in a constructive way by helping kids who deserve more in life. Its like a win-win situation and maybe also a good way to see if one can be good adoptive parents. Up to now, I still have the thinking that when my child grows up and I have more time to cope with other aspects, I am open to fostering kids who derserve more protection at one point in time.
I am not encouraging you to go for adoption or foster care, I just want to tell you what went through a mind of another fertility challenged woman and that these two are both open to me. And I fully support Miraclebaby and Hopewaves' views that I will let my adoptive child know as early as possible that he or she "does not come from my tum tum but it does not affect how much I love him or her". Indeed, I have also thought of this issue before when I open myself to adoption. Ever since adoption become an option for me, I read that testimonials of adopted children said they if given a choice, they rather know from the start about fact they they were adopted as knowing later in life can be very disturbing and result in identity crisis. Sometime this year at Channel 8, there was a programme that showed a group of westerners who adopted chinese babies. These parents formed a support group with other adoptive parents and brought their teenaged children back to the chinese village orphanage where they were adopted. The teenagers mingled with the children still in the orphange and one being interviewed cried because she was very grateful for being given the chance to know her background as a baby as it is important for her as a form of closure.
Another question I thought about, if my adoptive child ask me why her parents "don't want her" as a child might put it, I will tell her that her parents love her very much but believe that at that point in time, its better to let her grow up in my family as I love her just as much. And if she want to look for her real parents in future, I cannot say no. Indeed, there are many "feeling" issues to think about when relating to the adopted child but if handled with care and sincerity, its managable. I also went to the adoptive thread in this forum and saw some familiar names there. Can really feel that none of the mums there regret their decision to adopt and are the proudest and most reponsible mummies to their newborns. I also read that some of them join the thread as they wanted their children to have their own support group when they grow up. And I admire them for their thoughtfulness and love for their children. On the mrts, whenever I see a very naughty child, I will ask myself if I can love that child if its my adopted child and I told myself that it is only the day that I am very sure the answer is yes that I will make than first step. I will question myself if I can love that child like my own. But better to question now than later.
So Lyn, while I want to shower you with a lot of babydusts for you to have a child of your own one day, I am a firm believer that its good to keep options open and I agree with you that if you want a few children in your household, adoption is win win situation to add love and share love within the household. This is just my personal opinion as there is no right or wrong. Its truly personal. Some people are dead against adoption and there are not wrong too as they know what is right for them.
Just as I am about to post this, I read about what Dr Foong suggested. Good good, maybe you find the root to improvement implantation. Its indeed a step forward… yah!
Miraclebaby,
I also admire your honesty when facing yourself. I believe you can get pregnant in the near future and bring that pregnancy to term and hold that moving bundle of joy home. Like you, I believe prayers work..
Ling,
Keep going strong and with your determination and right attitude, you sure can bring a moving bundle of joy home too in the near future.
