Childless Not By Choice Group

[babygalore09]

To sisters are childless at the moment:

After my abandoned IVF cycle about less than 2 months ago, I got back to life with my hubby without thinking about ivf and children and frankly, I have been happier and living a fulfilling life. After miscarriages, ttcing, failed ivf which equated to many roller coaster rides, I am very determined to embrace life without the baggage of ttcing or always thinking about having a child. That is not to say that I have given up, it is to say that I have refocused my life all over again in making my hubby happy and myself happy, with or without kids. In concrete terms, it essentially means I am at the stage of:

1. Loving my work
2. Spending a lot of time on hobbies
3. Keeping healthy for the seek of myself/my hubby and not because of having kids
4. Being able to be surrounded by pregnant woman and not feeling much of a difference except admiring their sexy maternity clothes.
5. Being surrounded by babies and end up admiring their chubbiness and feel like squeezing them.
6. Not thinking that infertility is by any means a handicap or any reason to sulk about.
7. Just loving life and my mere existence on this earth.

To have reached this stage, its important to:

1. Pick up new interests.
2. Be confident of our purpose in life, and not indulge in self-pity.
3. Surround ourselves with supportive and loving people who won’t judge us for our childlessness.
4. As for the inevitable presence of critical people who question why we have no kids, I won’t hang out with them as they waste our time by feeding their lack of confidence on our self-found happiness.

I would like to use to thread to provide a platform for communication for woman like myself who wants to live a fulfilling life with or without children. Hopefully such communication can also offer some consolation that it is perfectly normal to be childless not by choice and still happy. If we are lucky, we can form a group (actually I would rather not use the word support group as it make us sound so helpless) that:

1. Can become genuine friends because of our similar experience and similar outlook on life.
2. Can talk about many aspects of life (including pets, hobbies, hubbies, ttcing included but not exclusive).
3. Share tips on how to cope with childlessness and live well.
4. At the end of the day, when another sister has a baby, be genuinely happy for her (them).

I don’t know how this thread will end up becoming but lets try. But don’t throw bad eggs at me if I cannot come to this thread that often due to workload. But I certainly hope this thread can be a platform for the sisters out there who are at the moment childless to make new friends with other childless sisters and share tips on how to cope.

 

[dec]

hi babygalore,

i agree with your view totally...

it's impt not to be too obsessive over TTcing... it will really destroy our lives.

lately i have been thru roller coaster feelings and i'm glad that i still manage to pluck myself out of it...

though seriously still trying hard for BB... i have learned to live well as well...

was just telling myself if really no BB, then maybe might get a dog liao... he he....

glad that we all have become stronger persons!

continue to jia you and live well!

 

[ellesie]

Hi,Baby galore.
Good to hear from you again and as usual you always inspire me. Honestly I am always at ups and downs. Sometimes the urge to have child is so strong till i will have kind of jealousy to those new mom or preggies. But at times when I saw how challenging it is to raise a child, i feel I am not ready for that challenges.Quite a contradictive myself. Last time I have a dog which I have considered like my own kid and ttc was not a stressful thing for me. But since he had passed away, the loneliness really struck me and all the emotions having a child just so overwhelmed.
I really hope I can have the positive mind like you.

 

[dec]

Hi Elle,

i understand your feelings. I believe we will always have ups and downs. but most imptly is try not to let it affect you too much.

look forward to other new things in life.

then you won dwell too much into TTCing.

maybe you want to get another dog? to accompany you and also direct your mind away from TTCing...

my rabbit passed away recently.... i missed her too...

 

[ellesie]

Hi, Dec
Ya actually i try to put my mind off tcc for now. Feel like having another dog but thinking that I have to let him go, it's really a traumatic experience. My dog had been with me for 9 years and hubby for 17 yrs. He has been part of us for tat long and even till today we still like to talk about him like he's still around. Really miss him a lot.
I ever hint to DH about getting a new dog but he firmly reject the idea. It's too hard for him to accept another dog.
Sometimes i find there are less and less topics to be discussed with DH

 

[lady1978]

Hi ladies.......
Babyglaore, its of nice of u to form this thread. Recently a few of the ladies at the ivf thread were saying they shld be leaving that thread to mum to be thread, personnally i feel sadness in me when they making remarks like that coz it makes ppl like us who have not succeeded yet to feel so left out.... so perhaps next time we can chat here more often to express our feelings ....

Dec and ellese, i had been in a roller coast roller with my own emotional recently or maybe getting my period soon had made it worst.........I wondered why GOD had chose me to be in this tough journey.......

 

[ellesie]

Hi, Lyn
Agree with you. These few days I dunno why I am so emotional maybe my previous cycle buddies have one by one graduated and I am still left in the shelf.

 

[ellesie]

and to add, recently there's quite a few of Dr Zou's patients succeed and come to thank her. Dr Zou is so happy and when she attended to me, she shared with me all those stories and say one by one have succeeded and I hope next is you. When I hear tat, I feel like crying.

 

[lady1978]

Hi elle, dun be sad who knows next one is really ur turn... U still seeing dr zou? R u on her herbs? Wats ur plan now?

I agree that i feel sad when cycle buddies made it and not ourselves..

 

[gan1972]

Lyn, are you seeing Dr Zou too?
I started seeing her after my failed fresh cycle 2 weeks ago. Been doing acu with her.

elle - I have a cat for 21 years and it is really heart breaking when she passed away in Jan this year due to old age and kidney problem. I still miss her and sometimes will cry when i think of her.

 

[tigi]

hi everyone, can i join? what a great place here.... thanks babygalore for starting this up.
i just failed a cycle of SOIUI... i hv been one of the obsessive ttc-er... news of ex-classmates, friends, colleagues', wives becoming pregnant upset me each time...looking at families photo in Facebook is painful, so much i tell myself not to log on anymore... find it harder to accept close relatives becoming pregnant, giving birth, one after another.... envy filled me when i walked past a pregnant lady or seeing young couples with kids in tow... the question constantly in my mind is when is my turn going to be... so obsessive i lost concentration at work, entertaining these depressing thoughts... but now all i want is to leave behind a life reduced to such meaningless state... i believe I will have a child of my own someday. I shall not ask for more, one is enough. As long as I dun give up on myself, there will be hope. There may be more disappointment on the way as i try more assisted conception techniques... and i reckon it is not going to be easy... let's all be strong... and one day, we all be mamas....

 

[lady1978]

Hi Gan, i was with dr zou from dec 08-june 09 but stopped gtg to her after my aborted cycle in july 09. Feeling so dishearted and lazy so stopped gtg liao. Maybe will go back to her for acuputure next mth, c how... Actually i feel my health is better when u her med, less tired and more mucus during ovulation and also she is such a nice lady...

Hi Tigu, welcome... Understand ur feeling.... When i failed my first clomid iui, i cried and cried feeling my hope r gone again and seeing menses is juz so unbearable.. Yes, must tell ourselves when we perserve. Aithough this journey is not easy still have to learned to be strong. I used to feel sad and even cried at home after knwing frds getting pregnant but now i m kind of numb and from this journey i have also get to know the qualities of frds around u...

 

[lady1978]

Hi tigi, u starting ivf?

 

[tigi]

lyn, nx wk gg to nuh to see doc... first appt...
and yes, i din mention about so much tears shed becos of neg hpt, ppl pregnant.... for now starter, even if i cant bring myself to be genuiunely happy for my frens, colleag, ex classmates preggie, i tell myself to be at least be at peace with these news... take small steps... one at a time...

 

[babygalore09]

Good morning ladies..

Many thanks for all your wonderful feedback and replies, I strongly believe that self-expressions are very healthy for our mental well being and will also benefit sisters who are walking this road. Thanks for your exchanging of pointers

It’s a great way to start the new year and can make us look forward in 2010..

So whenever we feel experience anything sad/happy/angry/appreciative about our lives, come here and express k..

December..
Totally agree, I also been through the phase of being so obsessed with ttc and thought by when when when hopefully can become mother. Such that every action (eg, dare not even go swimming for the fear of getting yeast) is determined by the ultimate goal of having a baby. And you are right that this kind of mentally will destroy our lives and also the lives of our hubbies. I am encouraged to hear that you have pluck yourself up and so have I. Now I swim for the seek of loving to swim. To hell with yeast..heheee…Then I realized that that stress coming from the fear of getting yeast is more likely to result in yeast infection rather than the swimming pool!

You are right, must look forward to other new things in life so that our heart will never grow old. I strongly believe that while all the organs can grow old, it is our “mind” that will never grow old as we can learn new things..

Wei, Go for your FET before thinking about getting a dog. Of course I hope eventually, you can post your baby photo instead of a puppy photo..heeee...


Elle,
We will inspire each other going forward k

Yes, there will be up and down day because we are afterall still human beings. Me too me too, so what you are going through is very common and normal. I can still cry when I recall those days of being informed of the profound losses in life. Most important thing is instead of being ashamed and reject those crying, I welcome those tears as they represent sanity. Its something like don’t be afraid to be afraid.

I completely know and believe that the jealousy feeling has zero element of viciousness, it is just a feeling of helplessness and feeling that this world is very unfair right. How come hardwork cannot be rewarded proportionally? Because we are all humans, such feelings are normal. We are taught from young that when we work hard enough, we can be rewarded. But one of the rare topics that does not follow this rule is having babies. One way to slowly overcome its is remind yourself that you have done your very best and you must and should be proud of yourself. The fact that are willing to undergo such invasive treatment is such a brave act that regardless of the result, you have already win something so priceless and intangible. Its courage you know. This courage will serve you well in future, trust me

It is a cliché to say this but this cliché is very true loh, without the “down” days, we will never appreciate or even know when it is an “up” day. How I cope is whenever I feel down about being childless, I will look at what I already have, a supportive partner, good health, the ability to walk to where I want to go and a sturdy roof over my head which we cannot take granted. Also, as long as the “up” days are more than the “down” days, then its good enough. Actually I think you a wise girl who can cope. By focusing on the fact that you are still a big girl and still require pampering and not ready for the many challenges of parenthood, you are helping yourself to be happy. Its good to continue to think like this: if have baby good, if don’t have, also good as you can still be a big girl that your hubby can dote on

How nice

Think in a way that makes yourself happy. So long as it does not harm others, you have all the right to do so.

I am sure you can be positive. You are on your way there liao….About topics with hubby, don’t worry, it is something that has to be consistently worked on. I heard from many married colleagues, who have two to three kids among them. They said “hubbies are still the most important because twenty years down the road, expect an empty nest with only hubbies by the side. Kids will all have their own lives, might even migrate given the globalisation”. It struck me that its people with so many kids that can say such things and yet so true.

Here are some suggestions for you but maybe you might end up having better suggestions for me once you get the engine started: If you are working, tell your hubby about issues you face at work and ask for his suggestions. Guys love to give suggestions to “save” us. If you are not working, ask him about what he loves to eat and try cooking for him that day. Try to celebrate events such as new year count downs, birthdays and anniversaries. That is one of the benefit of being childless, can celebrate this, celebrate that for fun…Even he is that type that forgets dates, you can still give him something, I am sure he will be so touched. Can plan ahead so at least have something for you and hubby to look forward to. If is a public holiday, try to plan something ahead such as check out a new café, or go trekking. Try to do a sports together. If can afford time, try to go for a course together. Trust me, although all these sound very deliberate, but the end results can be rewarding and renew the relationship.

I am sorry about your doggy… I salute your hubby for being able to raise your doggy from a puppy to a big old dog for 17 years. Tell him that your doggy has gone to an even better place and his spirit will forever be thankful for these good 119 years of his life.


Lyn
Hallow

heheeee…happy to see you here. Actually I wanted to sms you to come but I decided to leave it to you instead and really happy to see you here. The sisters at ivf support decided to migrate to mtb thread could be that they wanted to leave more space for the discussion of ivf specific issues or they scared they make the still trying sisters feel left out about not being able to discuss mtb concerns. And you feel sad as you are most willing to listen to their experience…don’t be sad, keep telling them that is ok for them to continue to share so that we all can kapo kapo and yet learn at the same time.

Yeah, about tips on trying to cope, we can express here since I am sure there are also ladies out there who have not tried ivf and living in silence about being childless not by choice. So we just freely express ourselves here. Hey, don’t feel alienated as god has not just chosen you, I also kena chosen right.. Be it good or bad, maybe being without kids for now, we can be like peter pan, the child that never grows up

Lyn, Elle,
It is perfectly normal to feel a sense of loss when we cannot graduate along with our comrades. But lets not forget the courage trophy k

Also, life is like a box of assortment chocolates, we will never know what the last piece taste like until we come to makan it

So I am sure with the right attitude, the last piece can a sweet one.

Its also normal to cry, better to cry it out rather bottle it up. Now, every time around ovulation and before menses, I must cry…otherwise, I can feel all the hormones left right center inside me! After crying, feel so release wor…heheeeeheee..



Gan2973
Sorry about your cat too. And you guys really impress me with your good care of your animal family members. 21 years is a good long time. I am sure your cat is in a even better place too..



Tigi,
Of course you can join, welcome

This place is open for all anyone with something to say. As said earlier, same here. I was an obsessive TTCer. And if my bbt is not so nice, I feel very sian. The mood of the week used to be determined by the pattern of the bbt chart! Like you, I also chose to leave a life behind which was reduced to such a meaningless state…(you described it very well).

And you show great wisdom when you decided not to log on to sites that only serves to sadden. Your positive attitude has also rubbed me off

NUH is a great clinic. Although I did not get a BFP with them, they have showed me great professionalism. For your first visit, expect that prof will ask you to repeat many tests but he is being cautious to do that. Prof is a man of a few words, if you want to know more info, ask him in concise questions and he will give you good and straightforward answers. Good luck for your first visit and tell us about it if you free.



Sisters,
CNY is coming, so here’s to share how I coping with a particular nosy distant uncle who will always ask me “when have one?, when have one?” (irony is his son is late forties and also no kid). I am not going to that gathering when he will appear. Haha…I already told me hubby beforehand and he said he seconds me. So one way to go about it is to avoid going to those parties who insensitive and funny aunties and uncles…*evil laughters*

 

[lady1978]

Hi babyglaore, i feel so touched by ur reply.. always..

Hi ladies, 2molo is a new year and put all the unhappy things that had happened behind and look forward to a better and a year full of hopes. I think we must stay positive but also cry when needed as sometimes its juz the hormones we produced mthly that caused our emotional rides...

Gan, another reason i have stopped gtg to dr zou is cause i m afraid that she ask wats my plan is coz i have no answer for that so i kind of trying to escape from realistic for the time being....

As for cny, sianz lor. For my side and hb side, ppl wont ask me but i know they will ask my parents in law coz my hb is the eldest son...

 

[lady1978]

Babglaore, perhaps we shld ask Liz to join us here to chat....

 

[gan1972]

Happy 2010 to all!

 

[tigi]

babygalore, good thing you tell me what to expect during first visit to prof wong. I am the typical dun ask many question patient... hahaha, can imagine the consultation to be short and quiet if i dun prepare myself with questions to ask prof..... any your words have been v encouraging, thanks....

My fil doesn't understand the difficulty to concieve or maybe i should say insensitive enough to "guess" about our difficulty because we never tell our parents anyway.... during CNY, he would grudgingly wish us "zao ri sheng zi, zao dian bao ge huai zi ge wo la....." sigh... this year, i would expect the same... furthermore, my hb is the oni son... his sisters already got children.... what to do? Just nod the head and keep quiet lor....

dun wan to tell them mah.. Do you gals tell them?

 

[hopeful1977]

Hi,

Can i join all of u in this thread?

i'm childless for nearly 8 yrs. i tried tcm, soiui etc. Currently i not seeing any tcm or gynae. Sometimes i have become numb when knowing someone is pregnant or seeing couple with kids, not like last time, i will feel sad and cry. although sometimes when i alone in the house, i will feel lonely and cry but after crying, i will feel better.

as for cny, i hate cny. i dun like to see my hb's family.. his brothers/sisters and their kids. i want to get away during that time but can't.

Happy New Year to all of u.

Cheers!

 

[gan1972]

Tigi, I didn't tell my in-laws about my ivf, only told them after the embryo transfer.
When the cycle fails, my hubby was the one who break the news to them. But luckily relatives and in laws only asked me to "zao sheng gui zi"in the first 2 or 3 years of marriage. after that noone asked anymore.
Interestingly my classmates, friends and colleagues are the ones who kept asking when i am having a child.
I will just tell them i am working on it. recently my ivf cycle was not successful, so i also told those i am closer to that things didn't work out.

 

[lady1978]

Hopeful and Gan, ya i understand. My FIL also thought that we didnt want to have child coz we want to enjoy... we didnt tell anyone abt ivf or discuss anything issue abt difficulty to conceive.. Whenever they also i will juz say wait till i shift to a bigger house first or simply say i will try my best... and after saying like this they stop asking for awhile and mths later they will ask again

 

[lady1978]

Gan, during ur 2ww did u take herbs from dr zou?

 

[gan1972]

Lyn, I only started seeing Dr Zou after my failed cycle. But now I also didn't take her herbs, took it for 5 days which she gave me on my first visit. Don't like the taste, so told her I don't want any herbs. =P
During my last 2ww, I eat normal.

 

[lady1978]

Gan, oic...

 

[gan1972]

Lyn, i decided to go Dr Zou because I read that acu will improve the lining thickness, so I want to try and hopefully increase my chances of striking during my FET next year.

 

[lady1978]

Gan, i was abt to tell u that maybe u can take her herbs during 2ww of ur FET coz dr zou says may help.... Wat u think? U have hw many embroys left?

 

[gan1972]

Lyn, I still have 9 embbies.
I will check with her on the herbs nearer to 2ww.
Are you going to do a FET too?
Happy new year to you and may all your wishes come true. =)

 

[lady1978]

Gan, i m not doing FET. I be on a fresh cycle again...

 

[lady1978]

Gan, pls hightlight me after u checked with dr zou abt the herbs. How often u gtg for accu?

 

[tigi]

Hi Gan & Lyn, I just started seeing Dr Zou too... she recommend seeing her twice a week... used to be raffles medical but that was too costly for me...

 

[gan1972]

Lyn ok, will let you know about the herbs.
I am doing acu twice a week.

Tigi yes i think raffles should be more ex. Did you take her herbs?

Watched the movie "Old Dogs" today, quite a funny movie. can watch to have some laughs.

 

[tigi]

gan, i took her medicine... i think internal (chinese med) with external (accupuncture) is more effective. dr zou med is actually ok... comp to the tcm i seen before...

 

[tigi]

but with ivf starts, i may not be taking chinese med... i will check that later....

 

[lady1978]

Tigi, i took dr zou med b4 but taste yucky. I feel body warmer when on her med...

Gan, no offence abt the 2ww herbs issue. The reason i brought it up is becoz of the sis i knew from forum actually took her med during 2ww and she striked and this her fourth transfer.. but again i knew some sisters got scolded by drs for taking herbs during 2ww and failed the cycle.. so... i also dun know but according to dr zou her med supposed to aid implantation and will not cause any harm... BTW, when r u doing FET?

 

[gan1972]

Lyn, no worries about the suggestion about herbs dring 2ww. I will check with both Dr Zou and Dr Loh before making a decision and wll also let you know what both says.

I am seeing Dr Loh on 6 Jan, would want seek his advice if can do FET in March or April.

 

[tigi]

lyn, i took those herbs also in powder form but come in small packets before... the combined mixture is near to black or dark brown in color.... those are really yucky... i find dr zou med more tone down already.. or maybe our med are different?

 

[gan1972]

Tigi, i took those herbs in power but small individual packets when i see TCM at Zhong Hua hospital, they have a fertility section too. I find those med ok but the first time i take, i was shivering and have a headache immediately after i drank because first time i take tcm and was too bitter for me. =P

 

[tigi]

gan, i had the shivering experience too when the med was too bitter... and feel nauseating straight after..... but it was over very soon.... i also tried drink a glass of warm water afterwards to flush it down, away from the taste bud.... then as day goes by, i find my tolerance for bitter med became higher.. heehee

.... i told myself the bitterness is nothing compared to the frustration of not succeeding in ttc....

 

[lady1978]

Gan, did u had accuputure at zhong hwa b4?

 

[gan1972]

Lyn I did twice only although I have been seeing the doc there for 1/2 year. The lady doc was my colleague's TCM teacher, but she acu only at the tummy area. She didn't do at the back like Dr Zou and also didn't use the electric current.

 

[tigi]

ladies, do you find the electric current strong? i always got to tell dr zou to reduce the intensity....esp on the legs.... i tried to withstand a stronger one on the back... feel like a massage but with needles poking me instead of palm strokes.... ouch

 

[gan1972]

Tigi, so far i find the intensity of the electric current acceptable.

 

[ellesie]

Hi,Lyn.
I am still seeing Dr Zou since Jun after my failed 1st cycle. then try for 2nd fresh on sept but aborted due to over suppression and since my AF never come on its own. I keep having the AF coming symptoms which is very torturing as it's on and off every week. My ovaries hurt most of the time. My last cycle Dr Zou prescribed me the herbs and on 3rd day, AF came. Heavy flow. Then this month she said try not to take any medicine and let it comes on its own. But the same symptoms keep showing till day 45, my AF still not here. Finally she prescribed me the same herbs again. Today is first day on the herb. Dunno whether it will work this time. I really dunno when my AF will turn to normal. Do you face the same problem?
I have changed my gynae though still stick to SGH and she asked me to lose weight and back for consultation another 3 months which will be next month, Feb. Honestly, I really dunno wat's my plan. Till today i still hope to be able to conceive naturally though i know it's impossible. Even doing ivf twice din result in anything.

How about you? do you have any plan in mind?

Baby galore, thank you for your reply and "tips sharing in facing tough questions".hahaha. For me, now I dun have such problem anymore. After "suan" for so many years, my MIL has given up. The worst was when she told me to go for adoption, saying adoption is very cheap, should go for one.Because I caused her to avoid all her friends as she doesn't have any grandchildren to show off.As for my fil, he never even once mentioned about it and I respect him for tat.

Hopeful,
welcome to the thread. I also have been ttc-ing for 8 yrs since my ectopic and have gone through kinds of tcm even ivf for twice but no result. We will be strong and stay positive

 

[lady1978]

Hi elle, so far i didnt experience of AF not coming leh so far still the same as before. Even after my aborted cycle coz of under stimulation or rather poor response my menses came on the dot of a 28 cycle.

Elle, i have yet to think abt my next step. Now i m kind of happy with my life but also feel incomplete when i see couple with babies.. I feel so sad and a strong sense of jealousy when my frd is due anytime..i dun think i can bring myself to visit her in the hospital when she gave birth. DH say is not right to feel this way but i juz cant help it. I know our friendship may juz end here if i dun pay her a visit.. lucky in a way coz i be on holidays for the coming 10 days so see how it goes..
I refused to think abt wats my next step coz i dun wish to indulge in sorrow again. I give myself till CNY and then seriously think abt it and will juz proceed with wats in store for me. As for ur MIL juz ignore her la she is juz being very nasty...

 

[gan1972]

Elle - ignore your mil when she makes nasty comments. I have actually brought up the topic of adoption with my hubby but he is strongly against it.

Lyn - It's good that you are going for a holiday. I think we should do what we enjoy together with our hubby. Our hubby is afterall our partner for life. These 2 weeks, I have been going for buffets, good meals, shopping, meeting up with friends with their kids , watching movie etc. These are the things we enjoy doing together, so it actualy gets our mind off TTC or the failed IVF cycle.

 

[lady1978]

Gan,I wish i can be like u.. go out with frds and their kids but i doubt i can coz when i see frds with kids it gives me a sense of incompleteness... DH always say my character is must win cannot lose type of end up feeling like that...

 

[gan1972]

Lyn I always tell myself i will have our own kids one day, when I have the failed IUI, SO-IUI and the most recent IVF. I was very sad during all these failures but I picked myself up as I don't want to be in self-pity. Although sometimes, i can feel a sense of incompleteness when i see couples with kids, but with friends, i tell myself if i can't have my own now, I can still spare some of my love to my friends' kids.
I guess from your nick, you are much younger than me, so you have a very good chance. Just keep yourself happy and you will definitely succeed.

 

[lady1978]

Gan, yes u r right that we will have ours one day and i feel that u r very positive ... Lets jia you 2gther, hope our challenges ahead isnt too tough for us

 

[gan1972]

Lyn, yes let's jia you together!

Where are you going for your holiday?
I have not gone for a long holiday for a long time.
Only planned for a KL trip end of Jan... kekeke