IVF/ICSI Support Group
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sunflower44
Member
winnie,
Wahh... u very garang leh.... dealing with govt agencies, still dare to scold them! Hehe.... is that officer fresh grad or what? Maybe new in the job?
Wahh... u very garang leh.... dealing with govt agencies, still dare to scold them! Hehe.... is that officer fresh grad or what? Maybe new in the job?
audreysu
Active Member
sunflower - I only garang when I have solid evidence against them. I shoot them in email a lot of times already & still dun learn their lesson. I dunno this officer fresh grad or wat, even new in the job also no need to ask me how to decipher read receipt right. my staff with zero computer knowledge also know how to see read receipt leh. I only know they're getting more & more brainless!
flowersfruits
Active Member
winnie - ya you should, my last round i didn't but now i downloaded my cute nephew's photo as my laptop wall paper ... and tell myself mine will be as cute ... hehe dreamer
htnina2909
New Member
Grumpus, so the 1st tri. is abt how many weeks later?? Cos i hv booked my holiday at 11 dec. So do u think can i proceed ahead, need yr advice?
htnina2909
New Member
Winniepooh, now I'm abt 4 weeks by then dec is abt 3 month plus, shld be ok is it?
flowersfruits
Active Member
Nina, generally if your pregnancy is smooth it is ok to travel after 1st trimester but please get clearance from your gynea first ok? we work so hard to reach BFP stage so its better to be safe. Come to think of it, I think BBChloe went on short trip after she BFP.
BBchloe any comments?
BBchloe any comments?
grumpus
Active Member
Nina,
2nd tri starts from 14wks. Based on the date of yr trip technically is ok. but u're only 4wks now so is very difficult to predict wat the situation will be in dec. even if u ask dr, they will tell u the same thing, now everything looks ok so looks ok to travel in dec, but will really depend on the situation at that time. it's a risk u take when u book yr trip that u may still hv to cancel it last min if there are unforeseen circumstances. u know wat i mean?
2nd tri starts from 14wks. Based on the date of yr trip technically is ok. but u're only 4wks now so is very difficult to predict wat the situation will be in dec. even if u ask dr, they will tell u the same thing, now everything looks ok so looks ok to travel in dec, but will really depend on the situation at that time. it's a risk u take when u book yr trip that u may still hv to cancel it last min if there are unforeseen circumstances. u know wat i mean?
flowersfruits
Active Member
Nina, see grumpus always makes more sense than us ... hehe
grumpus, I think we are the ones who are slow lor compared to your 2.5 yr old ... lol
grumpus, I think we are the ones who are slow lor compared to your 2.5 yr old ... lol
sesame_oil
New Member
Wow…the thread is running super fast…just finish speed reading..
Was reading abt u girls complaining abt hubbies. Yesterday I had a BIG row with hubby also. Every morning when I dun prepare immunocal or place his vitamins on the table swee swee for him, he can conveniently “forget” to take. There are times I was in such a big rush in the mornings tt sometimes I for got to take his vit out from the fridge and put on the table for him to take or make him immunocal, he can just forget as well!!! Yesterday we were arguing about some other issues and I bring this up tt I am super mad at him esp when we are on the cycle now, can’t he be more cooperative. Then he says I am super naggy and he hates me!!! My heart is now being pricked by thousands of needles. This is what I get at the end of the day when I hv to go thru ivf for him. I was so mad this morning tt I refuse to wake up for my lucrin jab. He got to drag me up from the bed to jab me. When he was jabbing me, my tears was flowing. I feel v “wei qu” from the comments he made last nite and till now it is still in my mind.
I am wondering whether he appreciate what I hv went thru after all. I really hv the feeling to stop just everything right away!
Ferriswheel, once again congrats on your bfp and u strike with twins!!! Happy happy…It is the best birthday present for you!
Ceraine, when I called KKIVF on my CD1 to report about my menses. They also dun consider tt as D1 since I oni started in late afternoon…so the next day is only consider D2.
Was reading abt u girls complaining abt hubbies. Yesterday I had a BIG row with hubby also. Every morning when I dun prepare immunocal or place his vitamins on the table swee swee for him, he can conveniently “forget” to take. There are times I was in such a big rush in the mornings tt sometimes I for got to take his vit out from the fridge and put on the table for him to take or make him immunocal, he can just forget as well!!! Yesterday we were arguing about some other issues and I bring this up tt I am super mad at him esp when we are on the cycle now, can’t he be more cooperative. Then he says I am super naggy and he hates me!!! My heart is now being pricked by thousands of needles. This is what I get at the end of the day when I hv to go thru ivf for him. I was so mad this morning tt I refuse to wake up for my lucrin jab. He got to drag me up from the bed to jab me. When he was jabbing me, my tears was flowing. I feel v “wei qu” from the comments he made last nite and till now it is still in my mind.
I am wondering whether he appreciate what I hv went thru after all. I really hv the feeling to stop just everything right away!
Ferriswheel, once again congrats on your bfp and u strike with twins!!! Happy happy…It is the best birthday present for you!
Ceraine, when I called KKIVF on my CD1 to report about my menses. They also dun consider tt as D1 since I oni started in late afternoon…so the next day is only consider D2.
sesame_oil
New Member
Do you ladies experience that yr tummy is quite hard from the jabbing of lucrin? Today is my D10 of lucrin and I found that my tummy is hard and lucrin seems harder to go in...sigh!
babylicious_jo21
New Member
ferriswheel,
Congrats on ur twins. Hehe. All is worth it as long as can BFP yah. For now rest well n eat well hor.
Take care.
Congrats on ur twins. Hehe. All is worth it as long as can BFP yah. For now rest well n eat well hor.
Take care.
sesame_oil
New Member
winnie, is the video clip helpful for your immunocal preparation?
Ferriswheel
Congrats once again & a happy belated bday! Best gift in e world!
Sesame
I can feel ur angry..but I tink guys r guys..they juz dun understand n r in their own world.. See, ur hb still cares for u,he still rem to jab u.. Cheer up & dun let it bothers u or else stress le.. Stay +ve coz u've come so far..
Congrats once again & a happy belated bday! Best gift in e world!
Sesame
I can feel ur angry..but I tink guys r guys..they juz dun understand n r in their own world.. See, ur hb still cares for u,he still rem to jab u.. Cheer up & dun let it bothers u or else stress le.. Stay +ve coz u've come so far..
ineedmiracle
Active Member
<font color="0077aa">sesame
I feel for u. Just last mth, i had a big row with him. He said he is ver tired of this marriage. Those words hurt. But for the sake of hving a baby, i told myself, i will be zen. N with tat zen, r/s with him was so much diff. Mayb cos he dun feel the stress bah.
I think ur hubby is feeling the stress. To him, he feels that he is already making changes n putting in effort for u n the ivf. He made an effort to cheer u when u are emo, he tolerated ur ups n downs, he made an effort to wake up earlier to jab u, he help out with the hsework. On his part, he feels that he has done alot alot, hence when u start n pick on him, he feels hurt, he feels tired. Mayb he is wondering y arent u appreciative, n tats where he said those ugly words.
Ivf, can bond a couple close, can also make each other feel the stress n tension. Perhaps, once in awhile, we ask ourselves, did we praise hubby when they do something good? We always say tat we have a big childlike hubby at home. But we forgot tat, tat childlike hubby of ours also want praises like a child.
Lets gjve him a break for a day. We still need them for tat 9 mths n oso rest of our life. Relax n things will b better. </font>
I feel for u. Just last mth, i had a big row with him. He said he is ver tired of this marriage. Those words hurt. But for the sake of hving a baby, i told myself, i will be zen. N with tat zen, r/s with him was so much diff. Mayb cos he dun feel the stress bah.
I think ur hubby is feeling the stress. To him, he feels that he is already making changes n putting in effort for u n the ivf. He made an effort to cheer u when u are emo, he tolerated ur ups n downs, he made an effort to wake up earlier to jab u, he help out with the hsework. On his part, he feels that he has done alot alot, hence when u start n pick on him, he feels hurt, he feels tired. Mayb he is wondering y arent u appreciative, n tats where he said those ugly words.
Ivf, can bond a couple close, can also make each other feel the stress n tension. Perhaps, once in awhile, we ask ourselves, did we praise hubby when they do something good? We always say tat we have a big childlike hubby at home. But we forgot tat, tat childlike hubby of ours also want praises like a child.
Lets gjve him a break for a day. We still need them for tat 9 mths n oso rest of our life. Relax n things will b better. </font>
flowersfruits
Active Member
sesame, relax lah, sometimes i even forget my own supps ... when i came back from hong kong ... i forgot to take my folic acid consecutively for two days. Your hubby may forget the supps but he still remember your lucrin mah, look for things to appreciate him and forgive his shortcomings lor ... makes life easier for you
Tummy hard hard after lucrin ??? think i experience that too in my last cycle
Tummy hard hard after lucrin ??? think i experience that too in my last cycle
sesame_oil
New Member
yenyen, what I am disappointed is he can say from his mouth tt he hates me! Till now I still cannot forgive him. I really decide to end eveything and stop my cycle this morning. If he did not drag me up from the bed for jabbing, I really got to stop the cycle cos I dun dare to jab myself.
I am not being spiteful and irresponsible. Sometimes I really feel v tired to keep reminding him this and that! Sometimes I feel that I am walking this journey alone. He did try to help me out in hsehold work...bt when comes to taking supplements, he is just so passive. Y do I hv to behave like his mother like that??? Y?
Sorry for ranting...but I still feel so heartbroken inside.
I am not being spiteful and irresponsible. Sometimes I really feel v tired to keep reminding him this and that! Sometimes I feel that I am walking this journey alone. He did try to help me out in hsehold work...bt when comes to taking supplements, he is just so passive. Y do I hv to behave like his mother like that??? Y?
Sorry for ranting...but I still feel so heartbroken inside.
flowersfruits
Active Member
miracle, i opposite hehe, i m usually the one complaining that i m tired of this marriage ... haha 'coz my DH ar is the ultimate ... altho he is caring but when it comes to household chores ... omg bet no one can beat him ... so far except for the occasional wash of dishes he never done anything else .... duh
but since no one is perfect, accept their shortcomings like they accepted ours lor
then not so stress rite?
but since no one is perfect, accept their shortcomings like they accepted ours lor
sesame_oil
New Member
miracle, you know when I was arguing with him yesterday, I keep telling myself to be ZEN and not cry, but I can't. I can't ctrl! I cried v hard yesterday and this morning! Whole day oni took one packet of maggi mee. I think he skip his lunch also.
He is trying to make small conversations with me, but the hurt and damage is already there. Cannot reverse back anymore. I did praise him and tell him I appreciate the help he has rendered. But does he appreciate me? Perhaps the words he said last nite is wat he thinks inside all this while.
Since he so hate me, I am thinking y shd we carry on? Now no kids already so many plms. Can't imagine later when we hv kids.
flowers, I m trying to make excuses to forgive him...bt not now. I need time to cool off also. I feels tt we are already so near already. So we shd not forget this and tt at this junction right? I feels if he makes an effort, all these quarrels can be avoided lo.
I find my tummy quite hard already on my D8 of jab lei.
He is trying to make small conversations with me, but the hurt and damage is already there. Cannot reverse back anymore. I did praise him and tell him I appreciate the help he has rendered. But does he appreciate me? Perhaps the words he said last nite is wat he thinks inside all this while.
Since he so hate me, I am thinking y shd we carry on? Now no kids already so many plms. Can't imagine later when we hv kids.
flowers, I m trying to make excuses to forgive him...bt not now. I need time to cool off also. I feels tt we are already so near already. So we shd not forget this and tt at this junction right? I feels if he makes an effort, all these quarrels can be avoided lo.
I find my tummy quite hard already on my D8 of jab lei.
flowersfruits
Active Member
sesame, he said tt in a moment of folly lah, I alwys say I wan a divorce also 
I am sure he doesn't mean it else he would happily have his lunch liao why do you think he cannot eat? He must be feeling remorseful now ... forgive him la sweetie
I am sure he doesn't mean it else he would happily have his lunch liao why do you think he cannot eat? He must be feeling remorseful now ... forgive him la sweetie
sesame_oil
New Member
flowers, I will la...but must show some colors first ma..else he will not regretted what he has done.
flowersfruits
Active Member
hehe, you like winnie ... like to torture DH
sesame_oil
New Member
flowers, when will be yr 2ww?
Today is my CD30, still no sign of AF reporting. Took bbt for last 2 days and it is still quite high at 36.88. Think this cycle will be late again.
Today is my CD30, still no sign of AF reporting. Took bbt for last 2 days and it is still quite high at 36.88. Think this cycle will be late again.
grumpus
Active Member
Sesame,
HUGZZ......
At least yr hubby still bother to drag u out of bed to jab, tat shows he does care lah. My hb until now I think dunno how many jabs I took, at wat time and for how many days.
Guys always dun believe in supplements one, they always think they very healthy and strong dun need to pop all these pills.
Their brains just work very differently
HUGZZ......
At least yr hubby still bother to drag u out of bed to jab, tat shows he does care lah. My hb until now I think dunno how many jabs I took, at wat time and for how many days.
Guys always dun believe in supplements one, they always think they very healthy and strong dun need to pop all these pills.
Their brains just work very differently
flowersfruits
Active Member
sesame, aiyo i think my AF's gona be late ... CD26 still have not O 'cos bbt nv rise still hovering at 36.4/5 region ... AF never so late wan leh .... i think this ivf thing really makes my cycle very luan
now I estimate my earliest 2ww should be late Oct leh ... dun like this waiting game
now I estimate my earliest 2ww should be late Oct leh ... dun like this waiting game
flowersfruits
Active Member
sesame, then i become very paranoid ... start to wonder is it menopause kick in ... hiaz siao liao
sesame_oil
New Member
grumpus, do you know why i hv to go thru this ivf thing? Cos it is a case of male infertility. And he knows it v well!
He told me he dun trust TCM, fine! I din force him to take the medi nor go acu. Instead I go for myself cos I wan to prepare myself for this ivf though I duno whether it works for me.
Since it is his plm, I feels he shd make an effort to take supplements which wld be good for his soldiers to fight the war. I always tell him though the plm does not lie in me, but I will try my best for this ivf though I duno whether all efforts will be in vain.
Perhaps when things happen, then he will realise the importance of supplements.
After what he said to me yesterday, the outcome of this ivf does not matter that much to me anymore. I just hope to finish it off quickly and that's it!
He told me he dun trust TCM, fine! I din force him to take the medi nor go acu. Instead I go for myself cos I wan to prepare myself for this ivf though I duno whether it works for me.
Since it is his plm, I feels he shd make an effort to take supplements which wld be good for his soldiers to fight the war. I always tell him though the plm does not lie in me, but I will try my best for this ivf though I duno whether all efforts will be in vain.
Perhaps when things happen, then he will realise the importance of supplements.
After what he said to me yesterday, the outcome of this ivf does not matter that much to me anymore. I just hope to finish it off quickly and that's it!
sesame_oil
New Member
flowers, same here. If everything goes smoothly, my 2ww shd be at 3rd week of Oct. We are quite near. Did u test with OPK to check whether u O?
Sometimes stress cld lead to late O la...not stress la. One thing abt bbt is u must really take it at almost the same time every morning to be zun. And u must need sufficient sleep also. Western docs dun trust bbt one. Only TCMs.
Sometimes stress cld lead to late O la...not stress la. One thing abt bbt is u must really take it at almost the same time every morning to be zun. And u must need sufficient sleep also. Western docs dun trust bbt one. Only TCMs.
sesame_oil
New Member
flowers, typo error, shd be "Sometimes stress cld lead to late O la...not menopause la"..
ineedmiracle
Active Member
<font color="0077aa">sesame
I agree those words are indeed hurting. (((hugz))) hope things will be better. Eat well... Go grab sme bite.</font>
I agree those words are indeed hurting. (((hugz))) hope things will be better. Eat well... Go grab sme bite.</font>
Sesame,
I agreed wif u dat muz show some face to him then ltr sit down n have a gd talk about your worries & stress on the IVF path..dat way he has more insight on wats happening and understand wat u have been going thru..let him noe u r v serious dat he does not said such hurtful words esp during quarrels. All couples do quarrel n dats healthy,after quarrels we need to sit down n talk things thru thus making us more bonded. Juz dat muz rem we dun use hurtful words/actions rashly. My hubby always stressed dat I dun use hurtful words or walk away from him during quarrels (which I often does it during our initial dating and he doesn't do all these at all) I learnt from him a lot on how to control my temper and I'm not saying he's v gd coz at times he can b v fierce but he say he fierce doesn't help coz I'm not scared heheh..so I guessed one person has to really set a gd example n do wat he preach and now I managed to control my temper n doesn't flared up often..coz his words will ring in my head whenever I wanna 'scold' him during quarrel..even though if I did it, I will make sure I apologised n admit my mistake (depending on wat we r quarrelling) Hehe..
Juz my 2 cents worth.. Cheer up coz all of us here will be rooting for u!
I agreed wif u dat muz show some face to him then ltr sit down n have a gd talk about your worries & stress on the IVF path..dat way he has more insight on wats happening and understand wat u have been going thru..let him noe u r v serious dat he does not said such hurtful words esp during quarrels. All couples do quarrel n dats healthy,after quarrels we need to sit down n talk things thru thus making us more bonded. Juz dat muz rem we dun use hurtful words/actions rashly. My hubby always stressed dat I dun use hurtful words or walk away from him during quarrels (which I often does it during our initial dating and he doesn't do all these at all
) I learnt from him a lot on how to control my temper and I'm not saying he's v gd coz at times he can b v fierce but he say he fierce doesn't help coz I'm not scared heheh..so I guessed one person has to really set a gd example n do wat he preach and now I managed to control my temper n doesn't flared up often..coz his words will ring in my head whenever I wanna 'scold' him during quarrel..even though if I did it, I will make sure I apologised n admit my mistake (depending on wat we r quarrelling) Hehe.. Juz my 2 cents worth.. Cheer up coz all of us here will be rooting for u!
babychloe55
Member
yenyen,
hello!
I'm having bad ms, hope it'll subside soon. Cos of it, no mood to do anything...
Other than that, baby's growing well. Will know whether I'm having a baby boy or girl next week. So excited! It's just so amazing to hear/see baby's heartbeat.
Will check my email after dinner. Chat again later.
hello!
I'm having bad ms, hope it'll subside soon. Cos of it, no mood to do anything...
Other than that, baby's growing well. Will know whether I'm having a baby boy or girl next week. So excited! It's just so amazing to hear/see baby's heartbeat.
Will check my email after dinner. Chat again later.
babychloe55
Member
Nina,
I did go on 1 short & 1 long haul trip in my 1st tri. CARE gave me Progesterone & Proluton jabs to bring along & had to get a doc to administer the jabs for me. If not would miss the jabs as I take it once in every 5 days.
Most important is not to walk too much during the trip.
But like what the other sistas here mentioned, best to seek advise from your gynae before travelling.
I did go on 1 short & 1 long haul trip in my 1st tri. CARE gave me Progesterone & Proluton jabs to bring along & had to get a doc to administer the jabs for me. If not would miss the jabs as I take it once in every 5 days.
Most important is not to walk too much during the trip.
But like what the other sistas here mentioned, best to seek advise from your gynae before travelling.
flowersfruits
Active Member
sesame, i hope our 2ww is near lor then can support each other but that is provided my AF is according to my estimate ... hmm
babychloe55
Member
Nina,
was catching up on past postings & read you just found out you bfp yesterday! Congrats, congrats!
ferriswheel,
congratulations on your bfp too. Have a smooth pregnancy ahead!
was catching up on past postings & read you just found out you bfp yesterday! Congrats, congrats!
ferriswheel,
congratulations on your bfp too. Have a smooth pregnancy ahead!
sunflower44
Member
Sesame,
*hugzz* I think ur hubby regrets what he did lah, else he wun try to make small conv with u.. Also, he woke u up to jab u leh, that shows he cares.. Its just that men's ego, they dunno how to say sorry one..
I think he shouldnt remarked he hates u during the quarrel..thats too harsh a word. Maybe u can have a gd talk with him now then u both hv cooled down, tell him u're hurt by what he said..see how he says? I'm sure its in a fit of anger lah.. Compromise to each other that next time when u both quarrel, should never use words such as "hate" or "divorce" or whatever that might hurt the other party.. Coz sometimes when such words are used, they kinda lose their effect already.. Thats what me n hubby did lor...
Also let him know what u're going through in this ivf treatment.. Its for his sake that u're doing it (but dun spell it out directly that its due to his infertility, men got big ego).. Hope he can put himself in ur shoes and understd the "sufferings" u have to go through...
Take care k? Be positive for your follicles...
*hugzz* I think ur hubby regrets what he did lah, else he wun try to make small conv with u.. Also, he woke u up to jab u leh, that shows he cares.. Its just that men's ego, they dunno how to say sorry one..
I think he shouldnt remarked he hates u during the quarrel..thats too harsh a word. Maybe u can have a gd talk with him now then u both hv cooled down, tell him u're hurt by what he said..see how he says? I'm sure its in a fit of anger lah.. Compromise to each other that next time when u both quarrel, should never use words such as "hate" or "divorce" or whatever that might hurt the other party.. Coz sometimes when such words are used, they kinda lose their effect already.. Thats what me n hubby did lor...
Also let him know what u're going through in this ivf treatment.. Its for his sake that u're doing it (but dun spell it out directly that its due to his infertility, men got big ego).. Hope he can put himself in ur shoes and understd the "sufferings" u have to go through...
Take care k? Be positive for your follicles...
babylicious_jo21
New Member
sesame,
U've come a long way. Don't let this fight tear u apart yah. From wat u wrote, I think both u n ur husband are making great efforts for ur bb dream. Think both of u are up to ur neck liao. Thus, need to let off steam. I know that we can get very frustrated when we did so much yet our DH still seems so unappreciative. However, on the other side of the coin, Man are from mars, women are from venus, we might not be clear what's going on in his mind loh.
I suspect ur DH says he 'hate' u bcoz his heart very pain when he sees what u hv to go thru bcoz of his prob. He's feeling super guilty loh. N when he realise he said those words hor...i think he must be cursing himself from being such a 'PIG HEAD'
So must sit down n tok to him once u 'seow qi' hor. Must handle this properly. Jia You. We'll all be here for u.
U've come a long way. Don't let this fight tear u apart yah. From wat u wrote, I think both u n ur husband are making great efforts for ur bb dream. Think both of u are up to ur neck liao. Thus, need to let off steam. I know that we can get very frustrated when we did so much yet our DH still seems so unappreciative. However, on the other side of the coin, Man are from mars, women are from venus, we might not be clear what's going on in his mind loh.
I suspect ur DH says he 'hate' u bcoz his heart very pain when he sees what u hv to go thru bcoz of his prob. He's feeling super guilty loh. N when he realise he said those words hor...i think he must be cursing himself from being such a 'PIG HEAD'
So must sit down n tok to him once u 'seow qi' hor. Must handle this properly. Jia You. We'll all be here for u.
flowersfruits
Active Member
sesame, touch or not? so many sistas here supports you neh
diana_natalie
Active Member
ladies was feeling ups and downs...
when my Mother in law knew we are going to do IVF she told her relatives and friends in Malaysia that I cant give birth.
then last few week back one relative ask her what other solutions do i have she say no choice what to do am going to waste $ to have kids spending RM20K...
Although her dialect I dun understand she like to speak in her dialect bad about me and I am used to the words she used and I can understand what she talking and I told DH that his mum talk bad in front of me. DH ask me how i know i told him that when she talk she use those "evil" looking eyes look at me...
So pissed off... she is like a loud speaker whatever we do like go hosp / tcm she will call her relative to report the status i was like living with a PA system.
Now i start my IVF we hide the medicine hope that she dun go around telling ppl that i start jab le...
when my Mother in law knew we are going to do IVF she told her relatives and friends in Malaysia that I cant give birth.
then last few week back one relative ask her what other solutions do i have she say no choice what to do am going to waste $ to have kids spending RM20K...
Although her dialect I dun understand she like to speak in her dialect bad about me and I am used to the words she used and I can understand what she talking and I told DH that his mum talk bad in front of me. DH ask me how i know i told him that when she talk she use those "evil" looking eyes look at me...
So pissed off... she is like a loud speaker whatever we do like go hosp / tcm she will call her relative to report the status i was like living with a PA system.
Now i start my IVF we hide the medicine hope that she dun go around telling ppl that i start jab le...
ineedmiracle
Active Member
<font color="0077aa">diana
Y ur mil like tat de.
If im u, i wont even let her look after the baby in future. She likes to broadcast so much, wont knw in future what she will tell my kid in future. Heee i bad hor.
She staying with u le? Really peifu u to be able to endure her.</font>
Y ur mil like tat de.
If im u, i wont even let her look after the baby in future. She likes to broadcast so much, wont knw in future what she will tell my kid in future. Heee i bad hor.
She staying with u le? Really peifu u to be able to endure her.</font>