Prof PC Wong - IVF with Norethisterone


I had 18cm ovarian cyst when I was 22yo, then it was found to be cancerous. But I couldn't remove my ovaries too young. Then I had cervical cancer the next year. 2yo ago prof KL yam at KKH says I'm taking too long to conceive so sent me to KKH IVF Dr Sadhana to do HSG and SA, turns out I have a swollen dilated tube and Sadhana thinks i knly can do ivf, could leave the dilated tube alone. Consult 2nd opinion at NUH CHR and Prof Wong thinks I should remove the dilated tube and then proceed to IVF. So I did what prof Wong recommended but 1st IVF (end april 2013) and prior to OR, I went to do TCM acupuncture like what he suggested. Sinseh thinks I should stop IVF procedures coz my womb condition wasn't favorable but I couldn't tell that to NUH, and sinseh was right, IVF wasn't successful although I produced 23 eggs and 21 fertilized and 11 were blastocysts, sort of means there's nothing wrong with my ovaries after my operation, although my left ovary was still stuck to my large intestines. Then prof told me to rest for 2-3 months before I do next FET (aug) in the meantime I should go for Accupuncture as usual. So after sinseh tiao he thinks there's no reason why I couldn't conceive naturally. All I had to do was to tiao back my womb after so many ops, after 2 months I no longer has jelly like period clots

And I stop using my Lelos, change my Wet, KY, Original lubricants to fertility lube $5/pop can be found at watsons and use the clearblue ovulation test kit
 
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ARGH.... need to ventilate...
my office guard (an old uncle) ask me where i go the past few weeks, cos i was missing since OR till this monday. He said he 'missed' me... then he said something i dun like to hear..." ah, you seems to put on weight everywhere"... sad :( sad... jogging again tonight!
 
Thanks TSF! Howve you been?

Hope - how soon after BFN did your AF come? I'm still having symptoms like cramps but no AF. Might consider embarking on round 2 later this year around Oct or Nov. See how la

Miraclez - Jia yoU!!
 
pantieileen - cnograts!! so nice to hear that you conceived naturally! Good luck for the next 9 mths.

Hope - ignore the guard! must condition your body, eat healthy and Acupuncture!
 
Hi CMR, I had it on the 10th, 3 days after BT. Actually I did sth naughty la, chilled out w friends so had some beer on national day. Beer is cooling, maybe that makes af come faster??? Not encouraging u ah, judt sharing my tot.Nurse said u shd expect it in a week, so maybe takes a few days more for u. I a still browning a little...
 
Pantieileen, thank you very much for sharing your story. Your journey had been a difficult one, and I'm happy that you are now healthy and even conceive naturally! There must be a divine intervention from up there. :) ~high five~ Hope you have a smooth and healthy pregnancy. Take care okay? :D
 
Hi all, me starting Nor E next month, with Prof Wong too.
I've done lap op for endo and block tubes with SF Loh, but still no news for 6 mths... so sought 2nd opinion from Prof Wong.
Done all blood tests and HSG, block again :( so only way is IVF...
 
hi Anny - welcome on board. Some of us have gone through the first round with Prof, some are on their 2ww and the others are about to start their IVF journey with Prof. Good luck! We are all here for you!
 
Hi pantieileen,

Congrats for conceiving naturally! It's what all of us here wish for. Btw, which tcm r u seeing? Can share contact?
 
Wanted to go to the very popular one at marine parade (opposite polyclinic) but queue was too long so went to the one opposite Ntuc, beside slimming center and post office called Tang Shan TCM, speaks English no queue and provide brewing and packaging of herbs service , Dr Qiu, Singaporean man train in china. My friend whom I recommended also had successful FET last month. Once he say your womb is ready, you can call for FET appt, but needs religiously 2-3 months of acupuncture and smelly herbal drinking. On the side note, the herbs improved my complexion, had underlying liver and kidney issues which explains why I don't sweat even after running 2.4km.

Also been to their branch at Vivo but they only offered powdered herbs (too horrible to consume) but Taiwanese lady Dr, Dr Cai

Funny thing is this place is mostly patronize by English speaking patients and expats (Koreans and Indians) can hear their accent while doing acupuncture
 
pantieileen said:
Wanted to go to the very popular one at marine parade (opposite polyclinic) but queue was too long so went to the one opposite Ntuc, beside slimming center and post office called Tang Shan TCM, speaks English no queue and provide brewing and packaging of herbs service , Dr Qiu, Singaporean man train in china. My friend whom I recommended also had successful FET last month. Once he say your womb is ready, you can call for FET appt, but needs religiously 2-3 months of acupuncture and smelly herbal drinking. On the side note, the herbs improved my complexion, had underlying liver and kidney issues which explains why I don't sweat even after running 2.4km.

Also been to their branch at Vivo but they only offered powdered herbs (too horrible to consume) but Taiwanese lady Dr, Dr Cai

Funny thing is this place is mostly patronize by English speaking patients and expats (Koreans and Indians) can hear their accent while doing acupuncture
Click to expand...

Pantieileen, can share how much for your consult, acupuncture?
 
Welcome Anny! We're here to support each other, with the help of Prof Wong. I am starting nor-e end of this month and will be starting injections mid of next month.

Pantieileen, too bad Tang Shan is rather far from where I stay (in the west). How often did you do acupuncture? Was it only during follicular phase (i.e. no acupuncture during luteal phase)?
 
hopemiracle30 said:
CMR, are u feeling better? Still on leave to rest?
Click to expand...
Hi Hope - ya last day of HL leave today. Feeling better - but when my mind is idle I think a lot. But that's normal I guess. Back to work on Monday. looking forward to Prof's consult this Friday. No AF yet. Had a coconut yesterday :) maybe that will induce it. TCM Dr. Zou asked me to start acupuncture on Day 5 of menses. I will stick to TCM for a couple of months without any other meds - maybe can restore "quality" LOL :)
 
Afternoon ladies...

CMR.. I am okie.. eating n resting well.... I like your positiveness.. u are a strong gal..Enjoy few more days before goimg back to work...

nervous babe.. I tried dr poh.. she is nice n she understand the procedure n med used in ivf.. some med I tell dr zhao she dunno what I talking.. ha....dr miao from the website is not into fertility..

Welcome Anny..can post quest here if unsure.. many of us should be able to help you..=)
 
CMR, it takes time. Just enjoy the weekend and restart again! I am taking a break from acu till I know my next step.
Tot of changing to one nearer. Will see how... Still checking ard about the Marine parade one.

Hi miraclez... Enjoy and relax! Have a nice weekend too!
 
Hi ladies! I googled "IVF and norethisterone" and ended up at this forum. I will also be starting IVF with Prof in Oct/Nov. We have been married for 7 years and have a whole of issues too. I have had 2 dermoid cysts removed, first on left ovary in 2011 (10cm) then on right ovary in 2013 (3.5cm) and it was discovered during my first surgery that I have bicornuate uterus or uterus didelphys (inconclusive diagnosis). Basically it means I have 2 uterus (unbelievably before the surgery, no gynae has ever mentioned it or noticed it even though I have done multiple TV ultrasounds). Hubby too has sperm quality and morphology issues :( We have tried Clomid and Gonal-F before but never been through IVF or even IUI. This will be our first cycle and it is straight to IVF.

I would like to start TCM/acupuncture but would like it to be near my house so that I do not have to travel much. I recall reading about Dr Zhu from Hua Mei Accupucture in Bukit Merah. Can anyone advise whether they are going to her and how she is? Does she speak English?
 
Yes miraclez, Joo Chiat area. So nearer to go marine parade. But the q is also as bad... Waiting for pantieileen to advice on the charges. Dr Zou is affordable, but from work to AMK still ok, but head home via CTE can be quite bad in the evening. Will see how after appt w Prof.
 
hi everyone, same as anie_angel, was googling abt Nor E and IVF... den lead to here...
seen Prof Wong and will be starting IVF in Oct,.. seriously duno wat to expect haha even after the briefing at CHR, I'm still not sure of the steps! blur blur haha
 
hopemiracle30 said:
Pantieileen, can share how much for your consult, acupuncture?
Click to expand...

$30 for 30min acupunture for 1 side of body. $60 for 1hour if you want to do both sides (front and back) 1, 10, 100 needles also same price. During the procedure, he will use heat lamp over your tummy, come in every 10min to check if it's too hot. But i normally ask him to also heat my knee and my ankle. Sprained my ankle lately and found that my knee hurts when i climb stairs...old liao
$8 for repeat consulation, $12 for 1st consulation. He will check your tongue, feel your pulse (right and left)
$34-45 for medicine depending if it's 8packets (4days) or 10 packets (5days). 2packs a day
$10 for brewing and packaging into bags. Bring to office heat up in hot water and drink, or pour in a cup and microwave. Can be bitter or about sourish depending on your condition.
So total bill should range between $82-93
Takes 2hr for them to brew and package, in the meantime do grocery shopping

Best is to do TCM 3 months before you start IVF or FET so u increase your chances of pregnancy. Anyway FET no need to book just report to CHR when TCM says your womb is ready for implantation.

I think I spent approx 1k over 3 months, compared to total cost of IVF I guess it's less than a fraction.
 
Forgot to mention if u are doing fresh IVF and u don't have 3 months to spare, do acupuncture without herbs everyday. I had ovarian cancer and I still got 23 eggs, didn't eat alot of eggs or other supplements. During the IVF seminar, he also encourage acupuncture
 
anie_angel said:
Hi ladies! I googled "IVF and norethisterone" and ended up at this forum. I will also be starting IVF with Prof in Oct/Nov. We have been married for 7 years and have a whole of issues too. I have had 2 dermoid cysts removed, first on left ovary in 2011 (10cm) then on right ovary in 2013 (3.5cm) and it was discovered during my first surgery that I have bicornuate uterus or uterus didelphys (inconclusive diagnosis). Basically it means I have 2 uterus (unbelievably before the surgery, no gynae has ever mentioned it or noticed it even though I have done multiple TV ultrasounds). Hubby too has sperm quality and morphology issues :( We have tried Clomid and Gonal-F before but never been through IVF or even IUI. This will be our first cycle and it is straight to IVF.
Click to expand...

Oh I have a friend with 2 uterus and she conceive naturally at age 36 big size baby boy in April. U have 2 uterus because you were a twin embryo but your twin didn't developed
 
sorry, may I know what is FET? pardon me as I'm new here, so not very sure about the short forms used here, thanks! I have both block tubes so does it mean accupunture also no chance to conceive?
actually hubby and I still not sure to go for IVF or not but both tubes bloocked :(
 
Welcome on board anie and miric! Just had a failed IVF FET cycle and am looking forward to seeing Prof for further updates. Good luck to both of you on this journey!!
 
pantieileen - no lah.....no twin. I read up a lot on my double uterus thing and shed lots of tears over it too. Sadly the uterus did not develop properly when my mum was pregnant with me. Scientifically it is a called mullerian duct anomalies. Your friend's baby was not premature? That is one of my greatest fear :(
 
CMR< Thanks for telling me and Sorry to hear that. Is it true the success rate is not high at NUH? Frens told me KK and TMC has higher success rate. Jia you!
 
Hi All, sorry, was coping with my morning/evening sickness so not able to come in. Babies are doing well and are taking shape of human. Saw them this morning. Pardon me, I just did selective reading. Sorry about your bfn CMR, jiayou.

Welcome newbies :)

Spreading some baby dust to all of u here ok?

Congrats Pantieileen. Actually, since u r preg naturally, u really dun need to see Prof, u can transfer to another gyne cos' Prof doesn't do delivery.

Take care gals. I will try to come in as often ok :)
 
HI Miric,
though I just failed my first fresh, I would like to share my thoughts with you.
I personally think that there are many things that determine the success rate e.g. egg quality, the womb condition, embryos development, age etc. Most important I believe is the support and care one can get from the provider. My experience at NUH has been good so far, from the clinic to OR to ET. CHR nurses are also patient to teach and guide me along the way. Was also a bit lost when i jus started my journey, but ask ask here and there, plus the sharing on the forum makes the journey easier.

You still have time to research a little, let us know if you need any clarification. I am sure the sisters here will chip in to share and help.
 
Maomi.. nice to see u back here.. Grabbing ur bbs dust again.....

Welcome Miric n Anie...

Pantieileen how many time u need to visit tcm a month? Acu everyday u mean during stim stage?is it long queue?

Hope maybe u can try... I think also close to Dr Zuo price...
 
@Maomia : Prefer to go back to Prof, anyway he accepted my appt and only charge me $43 for consultation. If i go to another gynae, i must repeat my story again. Prof he's also interested to know why IVF fail but natural was successful. Did i say i was also a trial drug IVF patient? My final IVF bill was only $2200 so deducted both CPF $1100 each.

@miraclez : once a week. He's not there every 1st Sunday of he month. Yup. i go for acu during the stimulation stage before OR and until the day before ET. No queue coz there are alot of rooms for acu. Feel your palm question your medical less than 15min.

@miric : I'm in the medical industry so NUH CHR is renowned for infertility. KKH not really that good after the famous Dr went private. CHR nurses are very attentive. I know because i was at KKH IVF and NUH CHR, and most of the expat scientists only go to NUH CHR and not KKH IVF, so if you noticed, there's more angmos at NUH than KKH (more india indian patients) We supply buffers, pipettes for IVF. NUH and KKH do not stinge on their processes and consumables. Rest of hospitals i didn't ask coz like Mount E, Novena, doctors share facilities (means clinic will use lab services) whereas in hospitals (nuh, sgh, kkh, gleneagles) it's a central facility, the doctors have control over the laboratory services.
 
@hope : Yup, before my transfer, i did everyday coz i only started 1week before stimulation so no choice must do everyday without herbs. But if you have more than 2-3months before your IVF/FET then you should do weekly and drink the herbs.

Sinseh said my womb was "cold" and poor Qi circulation which explains why i have very bad period cramps, my period lasted 2days super duper heavy flow. The kind i wear cruise ship 41cm pads but the blood will still gush out and leak and drip when i walk. Also my blood will come in clots or jelly. I can pick it up with my finger and it doesn't break, bigger than egg yolk size. My first period after TCM was less painful (less cramps) and very small period clots like touhuay smashed up.
I had previously complained about this to Prof KL Yam (KKH Gynae Cancer Center) and Prof Wong (NUH CHR) but both said it's not normal but it's common but since it doesn't hurt me it's not a disease, move on with it. But TCM views it differently. I believed it's the combination of herbs and acu that helped.

Also, heard that PC Wong is now a big follower of TCM, got peer also into TCM but he doesn't encourage herbs during IVF/FET coz not much scientific studies done on it. Acu before ET is ok and he will encourage coz there are scientific papers comparing statistics which shows acu improves OR rates but not ET. ET is still relatively unstudied (coz i also dug out PubMed papers to read)

I believed in TCM coz my family deals with herbs and now even more since Sadhana (KKH) sort of sentenced me to infertility if i don't do IVF so now it's a miracle for someone like me (1tube, ovarian & cervical cancer). Just pray embryo will be normal and not mutated.
 
hopemiracle30> I think me n hubby still in blur blur state haha.. I cried HSG result says both tubes blocked :(
pantieileen> I feel better after reading your feedback, thanks!
 
pantieileen said:
@hope : Yup, before my transfer, i did everyday coz i only started 1week before stimulation so no choice must do everyday without herbs. But if you have more than 2-3months before your IVF/FET then you should do weekly and drink the herbs.

Sinseh said my womb was "cold" and poor Qi circulation which explains why i have very bad period cramps, my period lasted 2days super duper heavy flow. The kind i wear cruise ship 41cm pads but the blood will still gush out and leak and drip when i walk. Also my blood will come in clots or jelly. I can pick it up with my finger and it doesn't break, bigger than egg yolk size. My first period after TCM was less painful (less cramps) and very small period clots like touhuay smashed up.
I had previously complained about this to Prof KL Yam (KKH Gynae Cancer Center) and Prof Wong (NUH CHR) but both said it's not normal but it's common but since it doesn't hurt me it's not a disease, move on with it. But TCM views it differently. I believed it's the combination of herbs and acu that helped.

Also, heard that PC Wong is now a big follower of TCM, got peer also into TCM but he doesn't encourage herbs during IVF/FET coz not much scientific studies done on it. Acu before ET is ok and he will encourage coz there are scientific papers comparing statistics which shows acu improves OR rates but not ET. ET is still relatively unstudied (coz i also dug out PubMed papers to read)

I believed in TCM coz my family deals with herbs and now even more since Sadhana (KKH) sort of sentenced me to infertility if i don't do IVF so now it's a miracle for someone like me (1tube, ovarian & cervical cancer). Just pray embryo will be normal and not mutated.
Click to expand...

You have certainly won a beautiful battle against the enemy (infertility)!
 
miric said:
hopemiracle30> I think me n hubby still in blur blur state haha.. I cried HSG result says both tubes blocked :(
Click to expand...

Block tubes can unclog. Don't worry it's like water pipe kana stuck. But once u unclog, during recovery. Please go TCM and tiao your body then try natural or IVF after that. Sinseh explain each time our uterus is cut open, C-section or Lap, it's like a greenhouse with its own ecosystem kana exposed to different one. So u need to tiao to bring it back to normal state. Which explains why must do confinement also (in Thai, Pinoy, Chinese, Malay, Indian, Korean cultures all same theory)
 
pantieileen> u mean TCM can help to unblock the tubes? Prof Wong said thou both blocked but good news is they are in good size, not swollen so no need to remove... pls share with me which TCM u visit? I cant find the post, sorry
 
@miric : no u need to unclog them via Lap, at least yours is not swollen. Mine was swollen and dilated beyond hope. Technically TCM also can but it will take a very very long time if u are of age, don't waste time, go hospital and do. Very quick process. Day surgery (but u need to stay overnight in order to claim insurance and use medisave so pretend that you are very weak, need to stay overnight etc etc and get the Day surgery suite that faces the park very nice view, extra $150-200 since can claim insurance)

Tubal reanastomosis typically is used to reverse a tubal ligation or to repair a portion of the fallopian tube damaged by disease. The blocked or diseased portion of the tube is removed, and the two healthy ends of the tube are then joined. This procedure usually is done through an abdominal incision (laparotomy), but some specialists can perform this procedure using laparoscopy.

But check with Prof, i believe he will refer u to Dr Fong Yoke Fai (key lap surgeon).

Scroll upwards #1520 for the recommendation but honestly, any TCM near your house is ok. Find those that sell herbs not the kind that does bones/joints/tuina
 
Ladies I just received a call from NUH ... they said my blood tests revealed that Im a Thalassemia Minor. They want my hub to go down to NUH for test.. I didn't even know I'm a carrier. Now I can only pray that my hub is not a carrier. This is another test for us.. please give me the strength to press on.
 


Miraclez are you in 2ww now? Sorry didn't really keep track of the thread (now I can't even think properly after the phone call). Must rest and eat well yea..

And welcome all newbies. This has been a great thread with all of us sharing information and tips. And I have been to KK-IVF centre and nearly had my first IVF done but I'm glad I chose NUH. The service experience is very different and like what hope said, the success rate is dependable on many factors. Most importantly we are comfortable with Prof and the staff.

Congrats Pantieleen! You are truly admirable after going through so much and hope this pregnancy will be a smooth one for you.
 
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