IVF/ICSI Support Group

towkayneo said:
thanks! sista! took the blood test this morning liao, so the auntie nurse starting very confidently pricked me on my right arm to draw blood. nothing but air came out. i looked at her sternly and she carefully shifted to the left side. Luckily blood managed to be drawn out, ah bo, i will ji tao complain and ask to change nurses. Already so bad mood already still kenna pricked 2 times.

-bang chest like angry gorilla-
Click to expand...

I also kanna yst, poke right and left arm failed then heng succeeded on the hand. :confused:
 


towkayneo said:
thanks! sista! took the blood test this morning liao, so the auntie nurse starting very confidently pricked me on my right arm to draw blood. nothing but air came out. i looked at her sternly and she carefully shifted to the left side. Luckily blood managed to be drawn out, ah bo, i will ji tao complain and ask to change nurses. Already so bad mood already still kenna pricked 2 times.

-bang chest like angry gorilla-
Click to expand...
Haha don't be bad mood la, think of your son your mood will automatically change. From bang chest gorilla become furry gentle rabbit mummy :D
 
DawnBB said:
Avoid soft cheeses such as feta, Brie, Camembert, blue-veined, and Mexican-style cheese (like those for nachos). These cheeses are often unpasteurized and may cause Listeria infection. Most advice indicate that there’s no need to avoid hard cheese. When not sure, I just avoid it altogether lor.

As for milk, this is more controversial. Unpasteurised and low fat milk is definite no-no. We do see those fortified milk powders specially for pregnant mums right? Yet there are also reasons why consumption of milk or dairy products should be limited. 2 views -

1) Western view - Bodily fluids needs proper balance between acidity and alkalinity for optimal function. Most healthy body fluids such oxygen-rich blood is slightly alkaline (7.37-7.45 pH). Body organs, e.g. kidney has a limit on excess elimination daily so over-consumption of acid-forming foods causes acid-buildup which disrupts normal cell functioning. Cow's milk is itself alkaline, but the process of metabolising it in the body causes it to be slightly acid forming in the body.

In ivf, our bodies already have the burden of processing hormone medications which is otherwise not so for a women relying on natural conception so I would think ivf-ers would be more vulnerable to impact of acidity overload.

2) TCM view - Inability to digest dairy products or over-comsumption of diary foods contributes to phlegm-damp constitution which creates an internal environment of congested, stagnant fluids (excess mucus). "In terms of fertility we are concerned mostly with congested or stagnant fluids blocking the cervix (pathological vaginal discharges or inflammation) or the tubes (mucus and inflammation), or affecting the ovaries (cysts) or the uterine lining (excess secretions). Damp in men can contribute to impotence, prostatitis, discharges from the penis or thick congealed semen – all of which have an affect on sperm." I believe that's the basis for the 'slippery womb' effect.
Good read on TCM view of food function and fertility - http://www.maryzhang.com/food_function.htm

Because we already invest or sacrifice so much TTC via ivf, and there are definitely ways to achieve similar nutrition other than drinking milk, I would just avoid milk during this period as the risk of subjecting our bodies to imbalance is more costly for ivf-ers.

Hope this helps. Hope you feeling better le and jia you in your 2ww ya!
Click to expand...
What about soya milk?

Wow dawn dearie you are a walking knowledge book! :) know from all angles!
 
towkayneo said:
thanks! sista! took the blood test this morning liao, so the auntie nurse starting very confidently pricked me on my right arm to draw blood. nothing but air came out. i looked at her sternly and she carefully shifted to the left side. Luckily blood managed to be drawn out, ah bo, i will ji tao complain and ask to change nurses. Already so bad mood already still kenna pricked 2 times.

-bang chest like angry gorilla-
Click to expand...

I always kena prick a few times before they manage to draw blood. Then my arms will look like I kena abuse cos there'll be bruises! Grrr. Anyway, wish you best of luck! :)
 
Sonique2001 said:
Sista- always love your positivity! Yes give your body a good break , and you can carry your boy now for as long as you want!

The next cycle will be better!
Click to expand...
Yup!! these naughty embryos, refused to implant, no choice lor. hehehe...see whether those frozen ones, they buck up or not lo
 
towkayneo said:
Yup!! these naughty embryos, refused to implant, no choice lor. hehehe...see whether those frozen ones, they buck up or not lo
Click to expand...
You are so positive. Super LIKE.
Will cheer you and your frosties on!
Let body recover well and have an better start for FET cycle. Jia you!
 
Towkayneo, looks like got implant with hcg 3.1? Yeah sometimes frozen ones fare better, a doctor told me this before. All the best in your next try!
 
Sonique2001 said:
What about soya milk?

Wow dawn dearie you are a walking knowledge book! :) know from all angles!
Click to expand...
Hahaha you just imagine i'm a nerdy geek lah.

I try to avoid soy products generally more for avoiding risk of GMO on health coz use of GMO corn crops are very prevalent in most soy products. I try to go for organic if not non-GMO if I take soy, e.g. organic soy beans, organic miso/ soy bean paste, Vitasoy organic sprouted soy tofu. Google GMO, soy and you can find research papers. So even before IVF, I don't drink soya milk.

Being Chinese Hakka, how to avoid soy completely?! We already exposed to more soy products - soya sauce, soy bean paste etc. So we still eat but we don't cook yong tau foo everyday right. When mum makes YTF, I buy her organic soy beans. I try to include organic miso as flavour enhancer for my home-cooked meals. Fermented beans and veg enhance beneficial probiotics and good for gut flora which i need badly for my sensitive bowel issues. So I eat this since avoiding cold yoghurt.

Some concern with high estrogen contents of soy. But aren't you curious, then why cultures that eat loads of corn/ soy foods don't have high incidences of infertility issues. What about vegetarians?
1) Olden times and rural people don't eat meat everyday like we do now and no meat for vegetarians of course, so unlikely risk of overload. Even meat these people eat are unlikely processed.
2) These cultures usually eat their own grown crops so unlikely exposed to GMO.
3) Normal people don't just eat huge amounts of soy foods suddenly or daily.

Plant based estrogen (phytoestrogen) is actually good as they bind estrogen receptors in the body & hence compete against harmful xenoestrogens, those synthetic compounds that mimic estrogen. Modern environment (think plastics) has higher exposure to xenoestrogens. Even so, may not be a good idea to just take huge amount of soy products suddenly coz soy has very high phytoestrogen content and increases risks of overload/ excess of estrogen. Adding 1-2 bowls of red bean soup has less risk than adding 1-2 portions of soy food. So take other beans or veg for varied source & keep to a balanced diet.

I think key is still moderation and be consistent. Do not suddenly increase huge amounts of anything. Don't forget our bodies already need to manage the burden of hormone meds, drastic changes add more stress to the body. Just my sharing. All continue to go well for your 2ww! Jia you jia you!
 
Last edited:
DawnBB said:
Hahaha you just imagine i'm a nerdy geek lah.

I try to avoid soy products generally more for avoiding risk of GMO on health coz use of GMO corn crops are very prevalent in most soy products. I try to go for organic if not non-GMO if I take soy, e.g. organic soy beans, organic miso/ soy bean paste, Vitasoy organic sprouted soy tofu. Google GMO, soy and you can find research papers. So even before IVF, I don't drink soya milk.

Being Chinese Hakka, how to avoid soy completely?! We already exposed to more soy products - soya sauce, soy bean paste etc. So we still eat but we don't cook yong tau foo everyday right. When mum makes YTF, I buy her organic soy beans. I try to include organic miso as flavour enhancer for my home-cooked meals. Fermented beans and veg enhance beneficial probiotics and good for gut flora which i need badly for my sensitive bowel issues. So I eat this since avoiding cold yoghurt.

Some concern with high estrogen contents of soy. But aren't you curious, then why cultures that eat loads of corn/ soy foods don't have high incidences of infertility issues. What about vegetarians?
1) Olden times and rural people don't eat meat everyday like we do now and no meat for vegetarians of course, so unlikely risk of overload. Even meat these people eat are unlikely processed.
2) These cultures usually eat they own grown crops so unlikely exposed to GMO.
3) Normal people don't just eat huge amounts of soy foods suddenly or daily.

Plant based estrogen (phytoestrogen) is actually good as they bind estrogen receptors in the body & hence compete against harmful xenoestrogens, those synthetic compounds that mimic estrogen. Modern environment (think plastics) has higher exposure to xenoestrogens. Even so, may not be a good idea to just take huge amount of soy products suddenly coz soy has very high phytoestrogen content and increases risks of overload/ excess of estrogen. Adding 1-2 bowls of red bean soup has less risk than adding 1-2 portions of soy food. So take other beans or veg for varied source & keep to a balanced diet.

I think key is still moderation and be consistent. Do not suddenly increase huge amounts of anything. Don't forget our bodies already need to manage the burden of hormone meds, drastic changes add more stress to the body. Just my sharing. All continue to go well for your 2ww! Jia you jia you!
Click to expand...
Thank you Nutritionist Dawn! :D

You should become a nutritionist (if you are not one in profession now!)
 
humbaobao said:
So sorry i haf a question to ask.. ur first appt is u all call n make urself or polyclinic help u all make de?
Click to expand...

Hi humbaobao. I am a subsidised patient. I got my referral letter from Polyclinic. You have to tell the doctor in Polyclinic which hospital you want to go for your IVF. The Polyclinic nurse will make your first appointment and you will receive a call from them or the hospital in 2-3 weeks time.
 
DawnBB said:
Avoid soft cheeses such as feta, Brie, Camembert, blue-veined, and Mexican-style cheese (like those for nachos). These cheeses are often unpasteurized and may cause Listeria infection. Most advice indicate that there’s no need to avoid hard cheese. When not sure, I just avoid it altogether lor.

As for milk, this is more controversial. Unpasteurised and low fat milk is definite no-no. We do see those fortified milk powders specially for pregnant mums right? Yet there are also reasons why consumption of milk or dairy products should be limited. 2 views -

1) Western view - Bodily fluids needs proper balance between acidity and alkalinity for optimal function. Most healthy body fluids such oxygen-rich blood is slightly alkaline (7.37-7.45 pH). Body organs, e.g. kidney has a limit on excess elimination daily so over-consumption of acid-forming foods causes acid-buildup which disrupts normal cell functioning. Cow's milk is itself alkaline, but the process of metabolising it in the body causes it to be slightly acid forming in the body.

In ivf, our bodies already have the burden of processing hormone medications which is otherwise not so for a women relying on natural conception so I would think ivf-ers would be more vulnerable to impact of acidity overload.

2) TCM view - Inability to digest dairy products or over-comsumption of diary foods contributes to phlegm-damp constitution which creates an internal environment of congested, stagnant fluids (excess mucus). "In terms of fertility we are concerned mostly with congested or stagnant fluids blocking the cervix (pathological vaginal discharges or inflammation) or the tubes (mucus and inflammation), or affecting the ovaries (cysts) or the uterine lining (excess secretions). Damp in men can contribute to impotence, prostatitis, discharges from the penis or thick congealed semen – all of which have an affect on sperm." I believe that's the basis for the 'slippery womb' effect.
Good read on TCM view of food function and fertility - http://www.maryzhang.com/food_function.htm

Because we already invest or sacrifice so much TTC via ivf, and there are definitely ways to achieve similar nutrition other than drinking milk, I would just avoid milk during this period as the risk of subjecting our bodies to imbalance is more costly for ivf-ers.

Hope this helps. Hope you feeling better le and jia you in your 2ww ya!
Click to expand...
So should I avoid drinking ENSURE milk too during tww?
 
towkayneo said:
well, my turn tomorrow and I reckon it will be nothing to be happy about too.
I guess, the moment when you know that there are no specific symptoms and still a BFN on the HPT a few days before, more or less, you know what you are in for on beta day (This is my experience from many BFNs)
It's always so sians to get -ve result when you have all the +ve situation in front, like it could be a blastie, fantastic lining, positive vibes etc...The mood is always ruined after seeing the damn single line or even spotting / bleeding on the panties. Then again, the hope to catch that last glimmer of hope at the 13th hour is always there until beta when you hear the nurse say the darned "you are not pregnant"

We belong to the brave category. Why? Who can withstand jabs after jabs after jabs and eating so many eggs in a day? Who can insert ugesterone pills up to the private parts even when you see blood? Who can fall but still stand up after knowing it's a busted cycle and give a simple consolation of "Nevermind, let's try again" to ownself?

The feeling of helplessness and loss is undeniably painful but again, what can we do except to pick up and see what's the strategy to the next cycle? Every BFN is a step closer to the dream of cuddling your baby...

-feeling emo-
Click to expand...


Don worry sis!! Till u r declared- hang on.. cheer up ok!! Take care..
 
Celestialbaby said:
So should I avoid drinking ENSURE milk too during tww?
Click to expand...
Hello Celestialbaby! Hope all's well since your ET on Monday :)

I'm have never taken Ensure but was previously taking Nespray full-cream fortified milk powder then added Anmum Materna. Then when I read in the forum about sisters avoiding milk due to 'slippery womb', I got scared as I have always been drinking my morning cup of milk. So I researched and asked TCM doc to have better understanding and decided to stop based on reasons I mentioned earlier.

In between cycles, at times when I feel my body is ok and really crave for milk, I will still drink occasionally, think not more than 2 cups a week. During 2ww, I actually stopped.
 
DawnBB said:
Hello Celestialbaby! Hope all's well since your ET on Monday :)

I'm have never taken Ensure but was previously taking Nespray full-cream fortified milk powder then added Anmum Materna. Then when I read in the forum about sisters avoiding milk due to 'slippery womb', I got scared as I have always been drinking my morning cup of milk. So I researched and asked TCM doc to have better understanding and decided to stop based on reasons I mentioned earlier.

In between cycles, at times when I feel my body is ok and really crave for milk, I will still drink occasionally, think not more than 2 cups a week. During 2ww, I actually stopped.
Click to expand...
I'm a milk lover so when i continued drinking during the tww, i had bad diarrhea. Seems like It was the body's way of hinting to us milk n dairy products aren't good for implantation.
 
papercIip said:
Hi humbaobao. I am a subsidised patient. I got my referral letter from Polyclinic. You have to tell the doctor in Polyclinic which hospital you want to go for your IVF. The Polyclinic nurse will make your first appointment and you will receive a call from them or the hospital in 2-3 weeks time.
Click to expand...

Can we choose doc? And can i know who is ur doc?
 
DawnBB said:
Hahaha you just imagine i'm a nerdy geek lah.

I try to avoid soy products generally more for avoiding risk of GMO on health coz use of GMO corn crops are very prevalent in most soy products. I try to go for organic if not non-GMO if I take soy, e.g. organic soy beans, organic miso/ soy bean paste, Vitasoy organic sprouted soy tofu. Google GMO, soy and you can find research papers. So even before IVF, I don't drink soya milk.

Being Chinese Hakka, how to avoid soy completely?! We already exposed to more soy products - soya sauce, soy bean paste etc. So we still eat but we don't cook yong tau foo everyday right. When mum makes YTF, I buy her organic soy beans. I try to include organic miso as flavour enhancer for my home-cooked meals. Fermented beans and veg enhance beneficial probiotics and good for gut flora which i need badly for my sensitive bowel issues. So I eat this since avoiding cold yoghurt.

Some concern with high estrogen contents of soy. But aren't you curious, then why cultures that eat loads of corn/ soy foods don't have high incidences of infertility issues. What about vegetarians?
1) Olden times and rural people don't eat meat everyday like we do now and no meat for vegetarians of course, so unlikely risk of overload. Even meat these people eat are unlikely processed.
2) These cultures usually eat their own grown crops so unlikely exposed to GMO.
3) Normal people don't just eat huge amounts of soy foods suddenly or daily.

Plant based estrogen (phytoestrogen) is actually good as they bind estrogen receptors in the body & hence compete against harmful xenoestrogens, those synthetic compounds that mimic estrogen. Modern environment (think plastics) has higher exposure to xenoestrogens. Even so, may not be a good idea to just take huge amount of soy products suddenly coz soy has very high phytoestrogen content and increases risks of overload/ excess of estrogen. Adding 1-2 bowls of red bean soup has less risk than adding 1-2 portions of soy food. So take other beans or veg for varied source & keep to a balanced diet.

I think key is still moderation and be consistent. Do not suddenly increase huge amounts of anything. Don't forget our bodies already need to manage the burden of hormone meds, drastic changes add more stress to the body. Just my sharing. All continue to go well for your 2ww! Jia you jia you!
Click to expand...
Need to take red bean soup in first few days during 2WW? Is it good for implantation ?
 
towkayneo said:
results are out - BFN with HGC level of 3.1 :p Hello next cycle!
Click to expand...

Hey, I am sorry to hear that! :( Now I am also getting anxious for my upcoming hcg test.
How much is the level then is considered positive?

Sometimes I just so envy those who get preggie easily and naturally just rolling around the bed hahaha...
 
towkayneo said:
Yup!! these naughty embryos, refused to implant, no choice lor. hehehe...see whether those frozen ones, they buck up or not lo
Click to expand...

you still have frozen embies... so now you take good care of yourself & uterus.
if I rem correctly, the nurse mentioned statistics for frozen is higher as there is not much stimulation hormones being injected.
so you still have chance!! :)
 
char-mee said:
I'm a milk lover so when i continued drinking during the tww, i had bad diarrhea. Seems like It was the body's way of hinting to us milk n dairy products aren't good for implantation.
Click to expand...

we cant have milk during 2ww? I still drink pasteurized milk.
and yesterday I had hot chocolate when out with friends... then realised I was told not to eat chocolate... :S
 
Winniewiniepooh said:
Haven't ovulated yet , wait ovulated then know .... Now worrying if the lining thick enough to ET or not
Click to expand...
Don't worry...it will meet target. I had a bad scare as CD8 I had lining 6mm and follicles 13 and 10mm. I was praying for the growth and ovulation to slow down as I went London on cd 8 after scan till cd 13. I ovulated on cd 12....super early. ..i went for cd 13 scan after landing in sg straight. Lining 10.5mm and the 13mm follicle had ruptured..the 10mm grew to 17mm. Thank god all went well. Kk told me to come for cd 10 scan and I told them will be overseas. They told me to abort cycle. I had to plead with them to say in case my ovulation happens after trip or last day let me proceed. Natural abit stress abt timing of ovulation n lining. It's natural.
 
One question on implantation - according to some charts, it takes place around 5th to 8th day after ET. Is it possible for implantation to happen in the later stage of 2ww?
 
piglet02 said:
Tmr my last jab, Monday is my big day. Anyone same as me. Today cannot take the bloatness n the haze cause my headache
Click to expand...
Yea... the stuffiness in the chest can be quite difficult to bear. Hang in there!
towkayneo said:
results are out - BFN with HGC level of 3.1 :p Hello next cycle!
Click to expand...

Sorry to hear that... but it's really great that you keep yourself so positive!

Jiayou Jiayou ok!
 
patn said:
we cant have milk during 2ww? I still drink pasteurized milk.
and yesterday I had hot chocolate when out with friends... then realised I was told not to eat chocolate... :S
Click to expand...
Seriously IMHO no need to obssess too much over it. Only cause more stress. As long as you are not taking them excessively everyday, these food taken on moderation as part of a balanced diet, drink sufficient water, you should be fine. All the best. Stay positive! Jia you! :)
 


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