Advise on Baby & Maid Exps

Aiyo, I talk to her but she just dont tell me why..said no problem,never mind.. I said I trust u but u dont tell me your problem,and I worried..reply never mind,hp lost, next time buy again.. wonder if she really forget she put in the bag or acting..
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twiggy, precious_one,
i din know you mummies went thru so much ... maybe we shd get together (after i deliver) on those lonely weekdays afternoons ...

twiggy,
it sounds familiar when u mentioned the contradictions of a SAHM. I also tot its gonna be great to raise them personally but yet i feel like i need to do something to self-sustain.


Actually, I do have a choice to stay home or work. My hubby grew up with weekends parents cos hes send to nanny since infant stage. His earlier memories of after school, buy his lunch & go back to empty house affects him alot abt family values. He never had the bond with his parents. In fact, he dislikes how he was brought up & how his mum dun fulfil her "duty" as a mother.

My upbringing was totally different. My mum is a housewife & did some sewing at home. Me & siblings all brought up by her personally. Both of us sees the effect of having a mum at home tats why we believed SAHM will make a difference. But then hor, my mum not so stress like me leh! kkekekeke ... some more she took care of 3 of us at the same time!

Before we plan for a kid, my business failed & i decided not to go back to corporate work & started a home-based business doing a freelance graphic design. Then baby came along & we tot its a great idea that i can work from home & also take care of my kids.

But when im in it, its very different from wat i imagine. I cant balance babysitting & working from home. I still remember the days when i had to meet a deadline & carry my screaming boy while i cry & work at the same time!! Those were the bad times.

Finances also play a major part of the dilema cos i finds that financial securities cannot be garanteed by spouse. As much as i could, i would still hope to be abit self-sufficient & able to put aside some "personal" savings.

Sorry for the long post. Tis is one of those cant get to sleep nights ... my tummy so big & uncomfortable until i cant sleep well ... tossing & turning til 3am ... plus waking up at least 3 times to wee wee ...
 
Hi Mommies,

Sorry to intrude here but do anyone of you know how much is the salary for a maid who is working in Saudi Arabia? I am interviewing one maid who used to work there for 3yrs before coming to Sin. She is currently working for a family here but they dun need her anymore as the M'am is resigning from her job. Any specific questions I should ask her?

Do appreciate some advise. Thanks.
 
Nellu
Wanted to send u a "Happy Birthday" via facebook, but somehow got some problem with my facebook nowadays .. (can't view my friends and can't send messages) .. Happy Birthday!
 
twiggy/ precious_one
YOu mommies are admirable. It is not easy to go thru so much.

Well, choosing to be SAHm is not an easy choice either. I was a SAHM for 3yrs, backside itchy, decided to work part time... well, v difficult to juggle, and after being SAHM so long, you will end up v im chim and "bu fang xin" pple take care of your kids.

Everyday I have the same qn... if I dun work, next time how... medical, retirement, children's education, rainy days... my frens doing so well in their career, but me, SAHM, not much savings, can't have luxury.... blah blah... Then the other side of the story, my kids needs me, it's better I look after them and teach them on my own, I can watch over wat they eat and do... My hb thinks tat no one else can do a better job in looking after the kids besides own parents. But ah, I scared 20 yrs down the road I will regret staying at home, cos maybe my frens who work, their kids oso turn out well.
UNtil today, my job is KIV cos I just gave birth less than 3 months ago. Can't decide how...

I dunno how can pple trust a maid to handle their kids. Dunno isit I too im chim, too worried...

<font color="ff0000"><font size="+2">Happy Birthday Nellu</font></font>
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Mon2nat
Finances and careers prospects aside, it is the coping stress of SAHM.. Not everybody can tahan this kind of physical stressed - not able to go toilet, not able to eat, not able to bath, not to mention no time to do housework, no time to cook, etc .. I've tried, but the stressed is too great for me until i nearly become depressed .. Luckily i discovered during my maternity leave (cos i initially intend to quit after maternity leave and become a SAHM to my 2 kids then newborn and 1.5yrs), and stop myself in time from quitting. To me, looking after kids is 100times more draining than working, physically and mentally. When kids are still very small (for me, one is 1yr and one is 2.5yrs), SAHM has zero personal time! ..
 
pinktweet
Talking abt tat, this am I rush off to buy lunch for my girl b4 picking her up from sch bus at 1130. Whole am I din eat, wan to poo, no time to poo, rushing this and tat, bathe my #2. Then ask my mil to carry my son, so tat he dun cry, while I rush to finish up some stuffs. I told my hb, how I wish I can take 1 day leave and hide somewhere.
I started as SAHM when my hb was posted abroad. Other mommies have 3 kids and can even squeeze time to watch VCD!! But me with one then, almost went into depression. I guess it is different expectations and oso the temprement of your child lor. I guess job gives you more satisfaction. Sigh... I dun like to work, dun like to stay at home... like to go shopping... how? hahaha....
 
PinkTweet, Mom2nat

I agree with PinkTweet that looking after kid is 100x more draining than working. I also agree with Mom2nat that only mummy could provide the best care for the children. After putting my all in my only daughter, I also worried that others might not look after her so well....like in the cc, I saw the children threw away their lunch when the teachers were not looking, as it is, the children were given only half portion of food each time....unless the child asked for second helping.

There's a new boy who joined the class this week. The employer puts the maid there (don't know why) so she sat outside the classroom whole half day. During lunch, I saw the maid step forward to feed the boy. Then today, I heard the teacher told the maid very firmly that she should encourage the boy to self-feed and not feeding him all the time. The teacher also commented that she doesn't have the time to feed the boy everyday so the boy has to feed himself. The maid said softly that the boy could self-feed already....

Who's right? I also don't know boy....I brought my girl home every noon and I still feed her lunch cos she eats very little in school.
 
Mom2nat
I have been asking my hb when I can go into hiding cos my girl is very sticky with me. Then my hb said, wah lao, yr girl stuck to you, you complained, he wants also doesn't have??

I went into depression before, that was when my girl just got discharged from hospital and I didn't expect that nursing her is so tough.
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I want to work part time next time may be but $$ not attractive....I don't like to stay at home, like to go shopping and high tea too. hahaha
 
Mon2nat
You have msn chat or facebook ? Give me your email address can.
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Want to gather all the SAHM here....So far I only have nellu and San.
 
hi,

i wrote a leter to mom on 31 .

This is their reply,
You may wish to note that the Ministry has taken administrative actions against the worker, Marie Rose Sumaylo Daga (Work Permit No: 0 24470083) by placing her on an employment ban in Singapore.

We wish to highlight that if a prospective employer applies to employ the said worker, and he/she gives a written undertaking to be responsible for the worker even after knowing her records, our office may consider granting the approval for the worker to work here again.

It is also beyond our jurisdiction to bar her re-entry into Singapore as this comes under the purview of the Immigration and Checkpoints Authority (ICA). This means she may still enter Singapore on Social Visit Pass, but will not be granted Work Permit to work here again. You may wish to check with ICA on the issues of barring her from entering Singapore.

Thank you for taking your time to give us your feedback on your ex-worker.


Does that mean this maid canoot work in singapore anymore.
 
precious_one
Though my girl can self-feed herself, but she spend most of the time playing with her food instead and end up can't finish her food .. It is only if either me, MIL or maid manage to sweet-talk her into letter us feed her (cos she always insist on feeding herself) then she managed to finsh her whole bowl of food .. We are concerned abt her food intake that's why we still feeding her instead of letting her master how to feed herself .. sigh sigh .. dillema
 
PinkTweet
How old is yr girl? My girl also plays with her food all the time. She loves messing up the whole place, I also feeding my girl cos I don't want to clean up after her....very tired lei. My girl don't even want to drink her milk from straw bottle...I have to feed her too.
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Pin
I read it as good news that your maid can't work in Singapore unless her new employer so desperate for her that will undertake to guarantee her good behaviour.
 
precious,

that mean they will not blascklist her, but will warn the new employer.

At least now we know we could write in MOM if our maid are not good. So when they trnsfer the agent could not lie.
 
Pin
At this stage, yr ex-maid is on MOM-ban list...so hopefully the new employer is not her kaki, otherwise, she will be here again. Cannot under estimate the maids, they have a lot of lobang....like previously, we were talking about some employer who sponsor maid for free service etc....illegal act!!
 
Nellu,
No lah, like Jo said, all mothers are wei da. I think if anyone is put to any situation where they have to sacrifice anything for their baby, they will. I surprised myself at how much I could put up with for the sake of seeing my baby come into this world. I never thought hyperactive me can physically lie in bed for 3months, haha!!

San,
Funny you brought up how the difference in you and your hubby's upbringing affects your family values etc, coz I noticed the same thing. In our case, mine is a working mum and I was basically raised by grandmother. Till today, I'm not close to my mum. Conversely, my MIL is a SAHM and raised all her five sons herself and all of them are so close to her!. I looked at that and told myself I want to be a SAHM so I can be close like that to my kids. But I know I will struggle with being a SAHM. So dunno how lor... I guess I will go back to work, but remember to spend quality time with my son and not just spoil him with monetary things to alleviate my guilt for being an absentee mum.

Running your own business is not easy hor. Very admirable of your to try. And certainly not easy juggling home business and crying baby especially if you have no help.

Mom2Nat,
You and hb are right that no one can do a better job of caring for a child than his parents. Afterall, no one else will understnad him better and can give him the unconditionaly love. And i mean UNCONDITIONAL. I've only just started learning what that means now that I'm a parent.
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haha.

But something else crossed my mind too when I was analyzing my decision to go back to work. I realized that if I end up giving up my career dreams and personal aspirations for my son, I may later heap a lot of these aspirations on him. Eg if I'm a successful Dr and want to give up my career to stay home for him, I may expect him to be a successful Dr like me to "make up" for my sacrifice. I don't want to do that. I'd rathr my son be happy being whatever he wants to be without any stresses from me. If I fulfil my owns dreams and have my own life, then I have no expectations of him apart from wanting him to be a happy person. Sounds very cheem I know, but I realized a lot of parents in our era always heap their sacrificed dreams on their children. Sorry to be so philosophical sounding...

Oh haha, and another reason I want to go back to work, is as you say, looking after kids is more tiring than work because there is no break, no off day one. My hubby comes back from work and claims to be so tired he doenst want to take over the kid. He doesnt realize I haven't had a break from "work" either. So I want to go back to work so that hubby doesnt "bully" me into doing things. Do you girls feel that you use to get more respect from hubby when you were working financial independant pple? I do, you know..
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My girl is 2.5yrs old. She is still bottle-fed (milk bottle, not straw bottle), cos very messy if let her drink milk using cup. Only allowed to drink plain water using cup, cos she likes to play when drinking also .. Very active and playful ..
 
Twiggy
We kind of share the same thought except that for what my girl had gone through (various ops), even if I'm SAHM, I do not expect her to fulfil my dream etc...till today, I only want her to be happy. I don't pressurise her to learn abc or 123....just let her play and play hard...

On the part on hb's respect...I totally agree, lift up not just my hands but legs too. When I was working, we hardly argue but now, we argue or quarrel over every little things including who should do what for the girl....I told him that he no longer respect me but he strongly denied. Man and Woman...very different in thoughts.
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PinkTweet
My girl is only 4 mths older if based on her EDD date...yes, she can't drink from bottle with teats and cup cos she will play with the water by spilling them on the floor. I spoon fed her liquid but she is train to use straw bottle or cup but she lazy to drink herself. My girl is also very active, always moving around unless she's asleep.
 
Hi Precious_one,
You're an amazing mum to have been through so much for your daughter, who herself must be a real fighter. I'm sure she'll grow up to be an amazing woman!
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Twiggy
You made me blush...all mummies are Great and will be the first to sacrifice self for the sake of the children.

I agree that my girl is a fighter herself. Her will to live is so strong and I thank GOD for her love for life.
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Mummies, appreciate your advice. I need to terminate my maid's contract asap. I've been on the fence the past month or so but things have gotten bad and I fear for my baby's safety coz she's abit emotionally unstable (bf problems!).
I'm deciding whether to send her back to the agent tmr or get a flight for her. My maid is a transfer maid so no more loan. I want to buy her a ticket back to Manila this Saturday but I read my contract and it says either party has to give 4 weeks notice if they want to terminate the contract, and another clause in the contract says I need to give her 3 days. So confusing. But if I tell her I'm terminating the contract, she's gonna get more upset. So I'm not sure what to do. And I am afraid to talk to the agent as they are very close and I'm sure the agent will tell her.

Help!
 
Btw,
If I do get her a one-way ticket back to Manila, I can only send her off till the immigration gate. How do I ensure she gets on the plane? What if she doesn't get on?
 
Happy Birthday Nellu!!!

Pin,
It's a good result. Your ex-maid is on employment ban. Very difficult for her to get re-employed in Singapore. If a prospective employer really wants to employ her they will have to sign a document stating they are aware of what she has done when she was employed by you.

Tam,
You may want to post this on your blacklisted maids blog.
 
hi angel, you need only tell her on the day itself, before asking her to pack her stuff. I faced the same thing as you. But I sent her back to agency for transfer.is your maid from JoB***?wondering is it the same maid...
 
Hi Chloe,

Which Job*** agency are you referring to? Can you PM me the name as my current maid is also from one agency by the name of Job****

What happened to the maid from that agency?
 
kristen, have pmed you the agency name.
The maid gave me alot of problems, so sent her back. She is v crafty, know how to put on an act.
 
angel2baby,

My suggestion is to do the following, in order:

1. buy a one way ticket to manila that leaves asap (print out the e-ticket)

2. go online and cancel her WP

3. drive your maid to the agency and leave her there. tell the agent you have cancelled your maid's WP and request they send her to the airport. Give them her e-ticket and passport.

4. Go home and pack your maid's things and send them to the agency.

5. Make sure your runaway bond is paid up and forget about her.

With regard to to the 4 week / 3 day notice period - the maid's that runaway don't seem to care about this and if they are to be transferred the agent also seems to conveniently forget about it so I don't see they are really going to hold you to that.....
 
twiggy

Giving the kids quality of life does not means the mum has to stay home. Im sure there r alot of working mums who spends quality time with their kids &amp; grew up very close as well. If one day i really go crazy taking care of 2 kids, i prob will hv the urge to go back to work to keep my sanity, kekek.

And SAHM needs emotional, physical &amp; financial support from hubby too. Personally, i tink these days the husbands are expecting alot from their wives. At first they want a wife tat has a degree so they can built a comfortable lifestyle, then later when hv kids, better stay home to raise them &amp; also can hv nice warm homecook meals, then after kids grew up independent already, they want u to go back to work &amp; support yrself. Imagine at 42yrs old, with a degree, u go get a admin or promoter job tat pays u $1200.

Not that i hv a bad marriage but these are wat i meant by financial securities. Someone's got to pay for your retirement plans, insurance, allowance for yr own mum &amp; personal expenses rite?

The respect part is quite true. Sometimes i purposely use his money for personal expenses &amp; he give me black face. Ever since then, i gave him options to choose me to go back to work or stay home mum. And gave him the scenario of the above mentioned analogy of a SAHM's insecurities. He promised tat he will take care of my retirement plans &amp; personal expenses.

Well, im sure im not having alot of expectations cos i go through thick &amp; thin wif him to raise our kids the way he wanted to, and struggle through his mba programme &amp; he dun give me money staying home since i do some freelancing. After he graduate &amp; earning more, he better be happily paying me to stay home! kekekkke ...
 
Nellu, Happy Birthday
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(actual day?)

Yesterday, no laptop and computer have problem with internet..

My maid bang her head backward on the wall, she lean by seating on a chair beside the 'yaolan'..
after I came back from a walk... and I dont know why she choose that time,just to let me know? why not earlier,when I'm not home...

I talk to her,asking her problems,all time just smile and reply,no problem..I told her frankly, your action telling me not ok. I trust ou, yet u hide ur problem from me,means asking me not to trust u..I just concern about, I appreciate you can work well.. You know my situation,handling kids,in laws,work n now ur problem..teach me how to be mdm..now u r the mdm what will you do?

She can smile n said nothing when I'm so serious with her. Think before she go mad,I crazy 1st.

So she is the one that draw the line,so selfish,with her personal problem.

Such a waste she can work well only when she is happy.I spoke to agent, agent also dont want to take her back,tell me to send her back straight.

I cant afford the risk of getting a new maid,cos now the agent only hav new,no exp.. already cost me abt 3k, without agent fees..consider replace..
 
Mummies, I would like to send a business presentation DVD to mummy that interested. Can PM me your mailing address?

Its an opportunity to have career n time with family
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Hi angel...
So sorry to hear that your maid is giving problem... Btw, do your agency give u any free replacement? If yes, you shd tell them to replace your maid. If you just send her back, you won't get a free replacement.

If u dun need a replacement, then you can send her back. I just finished the EOP class, so still fresh in my mind.

1. Buy her a one way ticket to her hometown (stated in the contract).
2. Terminate her WP online.
3. Tell her one day before her departure date (or on the same day) so that she can pack her stuff.
4. On the day, send her to airport. You have to ensure that she board the flight.

If you need any advise, give me a buzz. I can consult my agent for advise. She is a nice &amp; experienced lady.
 
twiggy/san
Today I asked my hb abt the respect part. Told him to go and think then reply me! HAHAHAHA... think he stress with the answer. Cos if he say lesser respect, I say I go to work. If he say no diff, I say I skive at home lor. Hoho...
 
Hi Mummies

My maid would like to send her salary back home instead of opening a bank account over here.
Any suggestion on what I shall take note in this case and any cheap remittance services whereby I can approach to?

Thank you.
 
Mon2nat,
How are u coping without a maid now?
I totally agree that it is not easy to be a SAHM... but really it is also not easy to cope as a FTWM plus a crazy mad.
Anyway, i have sent both kids to CC and coping everything at home w/o a maid. Quite tiring since the the younger one is still waking up in the middle of the nite for her nite feeds.
But really, the physical stress is there but no more mental stress... Dunno which is better.
Took leave y'day to clear some personal stuff. Almost died of shock at the horrid stage of my home... Cleared 3 ant nests, killed several cockroaches, dust so thick at the kitchen grills that it is literally falling off when i open n close the windows. Washing machine slot for putting detergent covered so thickedly with "i dunno wat"...the list goes on.....
I was especially disgusted to realise the house is in such a horrible stage and my previous maid is so free that in the afternoon, she can be lying on her mattress and staring at the ceiling (hb went home to do spot check and the kids are out with me)
So i ended up being the full time maid and got on my kness and all... suddenly all those strange ants and cockroaches become lesser.
And this is not the first time i have heard of employers who died of shock after they took over the house after the maid leaves.
 
Emily,
Can share who is yr agent? Is their agent fee expensive?

I might be looking for replacement.

The performance of my "so-call" 6 years experience maid is very disappointing. We have given her so many chances but she is still so forgetful.

Few months back I complain abt the broken teat of my girl's milk bottle which the maid didn't inform us. Well it happen again yesterday. Last nite when hb ask her how come like this. Her "favourite answer" is "I don't know". Now the teat tear apart and she didn't inform us which I have warned her the previous time that she has to inform us.

My hb talk to the maid. He told her that she is not stupid. She just do it on purpose. Told her its not that we didn't want to keep her till contract ends. Its her inconsistent performance that force us to terminate her contract and send her back. Told her that we are giving her the real last chance, if we still don't see any improvement, we will send her back. Ask her to go and thk abt it.

Later that night, I heard her sobbing but I ignored her. She is so good in shedding "crocodile tears".

My mum said she work differently when we are around and when we are not around. When we are around, she is "very hardworking and take initiative" but when we are not around, she hack care. My mum said every morning before we leave home for work, she will follow after my boy who has waken up and running around in the house. BUT when me and hb step out of the house for work, the maid leave my boy running around while she MIA somewhere else.

Also, she didn't inform my mum that she is taking her bath (which I told her to after she has mop the floor (usually she mop around 3.30 - 4.00pm) everyday because she has strong BO). My mum had finish her bath and was in the room changing her dressing. The maid left my boy in the playpen in the living room and went to bath without informing my mum who is in the room with close door. Then my boy scream and shout and cry, as my mum didn't know that the maid is taking her bath, so she thought that the maid will attend to my boy. The persistent noise from my boy alert my mum to go out of the room to check what is happening. My mum was very angry when she found that the maid has gone to take her bath while she left my boy in the playpen without informing her (my mum).

Well this does not happen when I am at home. Usually if I am in the studyroom and the maid wants to take her bath, she will come knocking the studyroom door and inform me that she is gg to take her bath. I will then stop my stuff and accompany my boy.

This maid is double standard. She does not respect my mum. She did it on purpose. Or maybe she is scare of my mum so did not inform her.

As I had plan a trip to BKK (with hb and girl) in May, I will KIV on the replacement first. Will see how it goes after we come back. Will be leaving my boy and mum at home with the maid. If we hear more complains from my mum when we are away, thk we will fire her and look for replacement.
 
San,
You're absolutely right. I'll try to give my kid a quality life in a different way when I go back to work. As for the financial security bit, I never thought about that before, to be honest. Some pple say women shoud have their "si fang qian" (private money). But hubby knows that I had given up a lucrative job for the baby so he'll quite happily support me for now. But I sense too that if I'm too extravagant on my personal expenses, he'll make noise. I think we both prefer to have me go back to work so we can have more disposable income.

Angel,
I think as long as you see her thru the immigration gate, you can take it as she'll have to board the flight. Otherwise, she can't come back thru the gate. So don't worry, just buy her a tic and get her to go thru the gate.

Guess what, just found out my maid is married! I didnt know that coz I just presumed she must be single since she's so young (24 yr). Turns out she's married. I hope that's a good sign and it means I will have less problems with her getting boyfriends etc.
 
Hi mummies,

tks for all the advice earlier. An update on my maid who arrived on Wed. She's a fresh maid with only 2 yrs Indon experience so I had very low expectations actually. But we've been pleasantly surprised so far:

1) Her English is better than we thought - I will be struggling for the word in Malay and she can supply it.

2) She seemed to take to my DD right away - a few minutes after I introduced them at the playground, my DD (3.5YO) came down the slide too fast and fell on her bum, and it was the maid who ran to her first (Mummy and Granny v relaxed - used to her tomboy ways!)

Since then, still q protective e.g. go carpark will hold her hand or carry etc without being told.

3) Seems to be quite hardworking. Wed night we got home late and she only went to bed at 11pm but she was up at 6am next day to mop floor, wash toilet etc. In fact, she's the one asking us what chores we want her to do - I haven't given her a schedule yet coz we're in the midst of moving house so I thought no point. But she seems uncomfortable having nothing to do and even asked if we had anything for her to iron. I gave her my DH's shirts and later when he came home I asked him to grade her work he said 8/10!! I dunno whether his standards low or she's really so good
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4) Also seems to have some initiative - my DH was impressed when we came back from grocery shopping on Thur and she came running to the door to take the bags from him. I noticed that she would also hold my mother's arm when they are crossing the road. And today, when I was eating a packet of noodle my mum bought home for me, she came to ask me if I wanted a drink.

So it's so far so good and I really hope that this will continue. I had a very good experience with the EA as well, which is the same as Emily's - Sun Employment, but at the Bt Timah SC branch. My agent is Kent Chia, who reminds me SOOOOOOOO much of Hossan Leong :p

We picked Sun not just coz their package is the most worth it but also coz Kent was friendly and frank and made us feel like he would be on the employers' side, not the maid's. He says things like, "don't spoil them" and "give them 2 months max, if cannot, just change".

Sun also has a 24 hour 'hotline' that you can call anytime with problems - it's actually the hp no. of their Indon-speaking staff who's been training and counselling the maid. When I went to collect the maid, I met the guy who's also very nice, and before we left he gave the maid a parting 'lecture' on how she must take good care of Mdm (me) coz I'm going to have a baby very soon, must watch out for me and 'sayang' me etc - all in Bahasa so I really only caught a few words here and there.

Btw, Sun does not charge food &amp; lodging if you return the maid, but you will have to keep the maid for 1 mth or rather, you will have to pay the 1st mth salary even if you return her after 3 days. Maid loan and insurance premiums are also refundable, pro rata.

And they have been q reliable abt the dates for handover in the sense that they said she could be here in 3 weeks and they would try for 2.5 i.e. last Friday. But she could only get on a Thur not Mon flight and so I could only collect her this week. And Kent kept me notified all the way - he called me on Thur to confirm that she was on the plane and again on Tues to say that she had passed all the tests.

So am very pleased with their service really and would recommend them strongly for the lack of aggro (so far)... fingers crossed that my new maid will continue to be a Godsent since I'm probably going to pop in 1-2 weeks or so!
 


Hi caira..
I feel so relieved after reading your post. I hope my new Indon maid will turn out to be good, like yours.

I'm quite satisfied with the service from Sun Employment. Like you mentioned,
1. They have 24 hr hotline for us to call if we run into problems with the maid.
2. Allen is very experienced and provides good advice to me.
3. They refund maid load and insurance premium, which most agency do not do tat.
 

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