Genetic Ultrascan vs Amniocentesis

Discussion in 'Matters Of The Heart' started by greentara, Jun 18, 2009.

  1. greentara

    greentara Member

    During an OSCAR scan just a week ago, my 2nd angel was classified as a very high risk fetus and amniocentesis was highly recommended. CVS is an alternative.

    Through a kind friend, we learnt about Prof. Anandakumar who is an expert (was from NUS in the 90s). We chose to have a Genetic Ultrascan and to understand further about her condition. A Genetic Ultrascan was done yesterday afternoon and the results revealed much details but it was mostly heartbreaking, *sniff*

    Our angel is diagnosed with Non Immune Hydrops + Elevated Pre-Cardiac Load Index flow (0.73) + Reversal of Ductus venosus (1.25) and is given a 0% chance of survival, a maximum of 5 more weeks to go. God bless.

    The ultrascans were very detailed, zooming deep into the heart area, lung area, head area, pelvis area, etc. Was also given a CDROM containing 85 annotated ultrascan pictures & a report.

    For our case, was told that Amniocentesis is now redundant based on the soft makers that were detected.

    Without this Genetic Ultrascan, we would have another 3 more weeks of tears, unknowns and anxiety. This Ultrascan enabled us to understand a lot more about what our little angel is going through - I believed that it tells us more than what Amniocentesis can tell us (ie. Amniocentesis focus is more on chromosones, rather than the physical aspects). At this moment, while there are less unknowns and anxieties, tears continue.

    Total cost was $380 (where $190 is for the first time patient, thus I guess the Genetic Ultrascan cost about the 2nd half, ie. $190).

    For those are also tearing over the past few nights over the OSCAR results and are also planning to have Amniocentesis (which is about $1,000 or more), you may want to also consider Genetic Ultrascan from Dr. Kumar.

    To know more about Dr. Kumar's Genetic Ultrascan, read about his service and photos here:
    http://www.ssr.com.sg/education.htm#5

    I was curious about why his clinic is called SSR and found his former NUS mentor/uncle, Emeritus Prof Shan Ratnam (July 4, 1928–August 6, 2001):
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shan_Ratnam

    Best wishes.

    May God Bless all little ones on Earth.
     
  2. vanilla_pod_2

    vanilla_pod_2 New Member

    hi TG - so sorry to hear abt ur bb...it is so brave and kind of u to post this here. I have been trying to see if there is any way i can check on my next bb's health becos my son (1st born) has alot of genetic problems which amnio cant pick up. Now knowing this technology i will def use it. Thanks v much
     
  3. monster

    monster Member

    Hi TG,
    Thank you for sharing.i had a stillbirth in july 2008.it's nearly 1yr now.after many months of trying,we finally got pregnant.but now,i'm worried abt the preg.afterall,the cause of the stillbirth was unknown.i was juz scrolling thru' the forum to read,and i came across ur post.Maybe i'll read the link u posted and ask u any queries i have.btw,how did u find out abt this genetic ultrascan?
     
  4. vanilla_pod_2

    vanilla_pod_2 New Member

    hi monster - congras! i read u in the other threads...so glad u r having a bb....
     
  5. greentara

    greentara Member

    Hi Mons,

    Congras on your pregnancy. I got to know about this genetic ultrascan from a friend who also had similar situation, she subsequently lost her first baby abt 2 yrs back. Great news is that she has a very healthy newborn a few months ago. Rejoice.
     
  6. monster

    monster Member

    Hi vanilla_pod_2,
    oh,u've been reading other threads,huh? thank you for being happy for me.i'm happy i finally got preg.the next step is a live birth.

    TG,
    how are u coping? it's so difficult knowing the end is coming,right?
     
  7. greentara

    greentara Member

    It's beyond words and I take this opportunity to share the pain of all the parents who are in my situation. While time will not heal this wound, it is a yet another life experience anyway.
     
  8. monster

    monster Member

    TG dear,
    *hugs* yes,i know it's difficult.i've been thru' a lost b4.it's really beyond words.can i ask how old ur 1st angel is? it's coming to 1 yr since the stillbirth,but my heart still aches.it has gotten better since last yr,but time seem to have flew by.our 2nd baby is not meant to be a replacement of the 1st baby.my baby chloe will always be my 1st born in my heart.i tell u,mention the name Chloe,and i will tear.when the nurse at gynae said this is my 1st baby,i corrected her and i said 2nd baby.juz that the 1st baby didn't make it.she was with us for 7mths already,it's not possible to treat it as though she doesn't exits.

    i hung on to every hope even after 3 docs certified my baby lost her heartbeat.i came home,and i told chloe to kick me,but obviously she didn't.until the next day when i was induced,i had to have 1 last scan to make sure.in the end,the sonographer used the big machine and it showed a straight horizontal line with the 'beep' sound.i knew that was the end.it is the most painful experience.i cried every day when i was doing my confinement.every single night.and i had to cry silently,w/o anyone knowing,everyone said i had to be strong.everyone knew i was a strong woman.i'm telling u now,TG,it's okie to breakdown.i wished someone gave me the chance to breakdown.in the end,this forum helped me a lot.there's a thread on stillbirth.but i think urs is not 20 wks yet,right? so it will be considered a miscarriage,not a stillbirth.anyway,it's going to be emotionally and mentally difficult,whatever u call it.my prayers are with u,ur hubby,and ur angel.
     
  9. vanilla_pod_2

    vanilla_pod_2 New Member

    hi monster - ya i sometimes read the support thread on miscarriages cos when i just conceived via IVF, it was a high chance of blighted ovum and 2 gyanes told me not to strive to keep it. It was v bad but my bb made it...he made it but has alot of health prob but i am thankful that God allows me to have him.

    Hi TG - nothing can replace the pain and hurt but ur bb is in heaven and is happy that u are her mummy who still thinks of her.
     
  10. greentara

    greentara Member

    Mons, 1st Angel is 1.5 yrs old now. Thank-you for your kind wishes. Best wishes for your 2nd Angel too.

    In memory and contribution by our Angel Gabriella, she has committed to a monthly recurring donations to the Community Chest of Singapore (CCS).

    For parents who have to sent off their Angel to the Heaven early, perhaps you can also consider remembering your Angel by doing a monthly recurring donations to CCS, either
    (a) One-time donation; or
    (b) Monthly recurring donation (starts from $1 only).
    http://www.comchest.org.sg/comchest/default.aspx?tabid=105

    May all Baby Angels who left this world be well and happy, in which ever Heaven you are at. Do give your mums/dads a call once in a while, via dreams, or other communication means.

    We miss, cherish, love and will always remember you.

    [​IMG]
     
  11. antzpls

    antzpls Member

    TG,
    you got pm...
     
  12. babykate

    babykate Member

    I recently did an early genetic scan with dr anandakumar at camden.it is very detailed.he was able to tell on the physical formation of the baby's organs.I did the scan whilst waiting for the amnio Appt.I opted for the scan as my first trimester blood test came back with very poor odds.& I needed to know more before the amnio,to kinda prepare myself for the worst along the way.
     
  13. tea~

    tea~ New Member

    Dear Mummies,

    I had a bad oscar result esp for the blood test that shows a risk of 1:53. That makes my overall risk as 1:370, which is a borderline situation.

    Though i had book for a amio to be done, i am hestitant to subject baby thru this procedure.

    Read about some of your post here regards Dr Ananda gave me some hope in finding out more. Could some mummies share with me the accurancy of such genetic testing? is it like the oscar which gives you a risk assesment? or is it more detailed like a detailed scan we do at 20 weeks?

    Are there any other doctors besides Dr Ananda that provide such services? Been trying to read up more but it seems that early genetic scanning is still at its infancy in singapore?

    Any comments esp from mummies who had seen Dr Ananda will be appreciated.

    Thanks!
     
  14. greentara

    greentara Member

    Hi Tea,

    I strongly recommend doing the Genetic Ultrascan as it gave a lot of good details.

    Kind wishes.
     
  15. tea~

    tea~ New Member

    Thanks TaraG, i will.
     
  16. babykate

    babykate Member

    Hi Tea

    Please do go for the genetic scan with Dr Ananda. His machine is much more advance as compared to those you get at the regular gynae. and he can really tell so much details.

    If it puts your mind at any slight ease, comparing to your result of 1:370, I had a 1:2 oscar result for trisomy 18. and Kate really had trisomy 18.

    i went for the genetic scan before the amnio and he could tell me so many details.

    as for amnio, it really isnt that scary, so long as the gynae carrying out the procedure is very skilful.
     
  17. merins_2504

    merins_2504 New Member

    Hi Babykate,
    thanks for sharing.
    I am also in my 14 weeks of pregnancy.
    My OSCAR result said that my baby is 1:106 of having down syndrome, had made appointment for amnio, but hesitate to go coz of the miscarriage rate.
    Just wondering, you already went to Dr Ananda, and you still went for the amnio test, I thought Dr Ananda's result can represent the amnio?

    I am first time mother, worried a lot. appreciate your advise. thanks [​IMG]
     
  18. greentara

    greentara Member

    Hi Merins,

    I share your anxiety.

    The results from Dr. Ananda is very detailed, ie. lots of graphical scans and it does help a lot that he is able to give very good explanation, such that I suspect that it is more accurate than amnio test - those who have went for both tests can help verify/validate my guess. It is definitely safer as there is no penetration involved.
     
  19. babykate

    babykate Member

    the amnio test is the definitive test. even dr ananda will try to push you to do amnio with him at his clinic after the scan.

    my amnio went very smoothly. i did not worry about any miscarriage rates. you are already at a stage where you just need to do all the tests in the world to seek for that shred of hope.

    i was a first-time mother too.
     
  20. tea~

    tea~ New Member

    Hi mummies,

    If the scan shows a normal baby, will you still go for an amnio?
     
  21. srismum

    srismum New Member

    I also did genetic ultrascan with Dr Ananda about three years ago. From what I know, if this scan shows a normal baby there is no need to take a risk with amnio. Amnio may be necessary if the genetic screening shows something abnormal. Amnio is more accurate than genetic screening.
     
  22. tea~

    tea~ New Member

    Srismum,
    thanks for your reply.

    Somehow i still worry, if the scan shows everything as ok, then why did my blood test failed so badly.

    So which is more accurate? A scan or a blood test.

    These statistic are killing me and worrying me.

    Why cant I just trust Nature takes care of all.

    When can i stop worrying and enjoy this pregnancy?
     
  23. tangerinez

    tangerinez Member

    tea, i'm not sure what the blood test tests for. but amnio and genetic scans are different.

    amnio tests ONLY for most chromosomal defects. and it tests for the more common ones, doesn't test for ALL chromosomal defects.

    genetic scans shows indicative markers for chromosomal defects AND physical defects (hole in heart, missing kidneys etc). a positive genetic scan doesn't guarantee your baby is perfectly healthy.

    unfortunately that's how things are. pregnancy is tough and worrisome. we can only check using whatever medical tests that are currently available.

    if you are worried, can do amnio for peace of mind though a good result doesn't guarantee anything.

    i've done 2 amnio and 1 genetic scan (with Prof Ananda) and i'm still worried that bb has other undetected issues. but still have to continue to keep a positive mind.
     
  24. teapott

    teapott New Member

    Hi tangerinez,
    thanks for your reply. i hope our babies are okay and will grow up to be strong and healthy.

    We have to stay positive for them.
     
  25. btil

    btil Member

    Hi everyone - I just rec my oscar result n my gynae told me abt amino etc and that my result is 'pass' but borderline at 1:367 at T21. Scan is ok at 1:400+ but blood test 1:240.... Also I'm 37 yr old ...
    I'm afraid of d ms risk in amino .... After detailed scan, if things r not gd, are there still option ?


    Hi tea - can u share what u did ? Your case is similar to mine ..
     
  26. tea~

    tea~ New Member

    Hi Btil,

    Like you i dont have the answers. And i concluded that the Doctors doesnt have the answers as well.

    The best guesstimate is a number probability statistics.

    I did not go for the amino, as i cannot consider a even a <0.1% chance of miscarriage.

    I dont think I can't live with that if something is to happen to the baby.

    But i can only make this decision as the statistics point to a borderline situation. Even now, as late as in my 3rd trimester....I do not know what my decision would had been if the number tilts the other way.

    I hope you go for a detail scan, that give you the knowledge to make the next move or at least put your mind at ease.

    take care
     
  27. btil

    btil Member

    Tea - thanks for ur sharing . Did u go for d genetic scan at dr anand?
     
  28. fruche

    fruche Member

    Hi, is this thread still active? I hv made apt for genetic scan and hopefully i can avoid amnio. Anyone has gone for it and find bb ok n dun need to go for amnio?
     
  29. greentara

    greentara Member

    Hi Fruche,

    I've recently went for my friend's girl BD party. Her lively and healthy girl is now 3 years ago. She was advised to go for amnio but went for genetic scanning instead.

    Kind wishes.
     
  30. fruche

    fruche Member

    Hi Tara, thks for your reply! May i know if your friends oscar results were really low like in the tens ? And was it biochemistry results or was it the ultrasound results? Cos mine was ok for ultrasound but not ok for biochemistry so the adjusted one was pulled down. Thks again.
     
  31. greentara

    greentara Member

    Hi Fruche, I did not ask further as it is a sensitive topic. May want to google for more information regarding this.
     
  32. fruche

    fruche Member

    I understand. Thanks. I m just getting lots of conflicting advice....some say no point to go for genetic scan cos results r not as clear cut as an amnio. But i m also afraid of any accidental miscarriage fr it...esp if my bb is actually healthy. So in a dilema nw.
     
  33. greentara

    greentara Member

    >some say no point to go for genetic scan
    >cos results r not as clear cut as an amnio.

    From experience, results from genetic scan is very 'clear cut' - the 3D photos, the diagnosis, the evidence, etc.

    You should ask the person who claim that genetic scan is not clear cut to justify his/her claims, ie. is it based on actual experience with 3D photos, diagnosis and evidence or is it hearsay or worse, gut feel.

    In terms of accidental miscarriage, amnio has a higher chance because it is invasive, while 3D genetic scan is somewhat like 2D ultrasound scan.

    Kind wishes.

    PS: If you do go for the genetic scan, hope you can consider sharing your experience if it is not too personal... it's alright not to share, we'll understand.
     
  34. jaydenmum

    jaydenmum Member

    Fruche, maybe sharing my experience with you. my test results with my age and all, ratio is 1:206. which was consider risk.... i was told to do amnio test. this was my 2nd baby and im kinda of worried, as heard alot on amnio test. Thus, i went to Dr AnandaKumar, the genetic scan he did for me @ week 13... he commented my baby looks perfectly fine. Which really eased me.

    I decided to skip amnio test, till my next detail scanning with him on oct 17. Im actually quite worried. If detected something then, maybe i will decide amnio test.

    Dr Ananda shared this with me, "since now you know ur baby looks fine at this stage, will you want to risk a miscarriage? " he add on, if i still think amnio test is required, i can still do it after my detail scan.

    My first baby ratio was also bad, i went to him. My boy is now 7yrs old. now this 2nd bb, i hope everything goes well too.

    My collegues and friends are telling me, STAY POSITIVE! [​IMG]
     
  35. fruche

    fruche Member

    Thks serene!! Your message has really reassured me! I am going to see him on thurs. will post here after results. Do keep me updated abt yrs too!
     
  36. fruche

    fruche Member

    Finally did the genetic scan today. My case is very smilar to serene's. Dr ananda says baby looks fine scan and the biochemistry part of my oscar test (which makes the adjusted risk so high) is actually not accurate cos many factors such as real gestatioonal age of bb will affect.

    I have also decided to skip amnio and wait for the detailed scan.

    Really feel very relieved at this moment. Very glad i went for this scan.

    O and one interesting thing is you dont need a full bladder unlike all the other scannings i hv been too. I was told to empty my bladder just before the scan.
     
  37. greentara

    greentara Member

    Hi Fruche,

    Rejoice for you. I can't remember about the emptying of bladder, thanks for the info.
     
  38. fruche

    fruche Member

    Hi serene, pls let me know how your detailed scanning went. I am still thinking if i should go with e package i already paid for at TMC for the detailed scanning. Otherwise they prob wont refund me and i Will have to forfeit the payment.
     
  39. jaydenmum

    jaydenmum Member

    Hi Fruche, my detailed scanning will be on oct 17, which is next Wed, will share [​IMG]
    im hoping everything turns out well...
    don't mind me asking, what's your ratio?
     
    lala likes this.
  40. fruche

    fruche Member

    My adjusted risk was 1:204 for trisomy. The others were ok.
    As in above 300...the cutoff. Aftr the scan prof anandakumar concluded that trisomy 13 n 18 can b confidently ruled out. So its juz down syndrome which i wasnt at risk for in 1st place.

    Hope all go well with u next wed.

    Hv decided to go bak to prof for detailed scan too cos my gynaes recep told me its better. Mine is abt a mth aftr yrs.
     
  41. jaydenmum

    jaydenmum Member

    fruche, i will be going down to Dr Anandakumar tomorrow, wish me luck! hopefully everything turns out well. will update u [​IMG]
     
  42. fruche

    fruche Member

    All the best!!!!
     
  43. jaydenmum

    jaydenmum Member

    Hi fruche, my scan today shows bb is perfectly fine. I'm in my 21 weeks now ;) happy n delighted. Update urs k ;)
     
  44. fruche

    fruche Member

    Congrats!!!!!! Rejoice with you!!!! [​IMG]
     
  45. greentara

    greentara Member

    Serene, rejoice for you too.
     
  46. jaydenmum

    jaydenmum Member

    thanks fruche &amp; Tarag [​IMG]

    Fruche, update urs too okie [​IMG]
     
  47. sonic

    sonic Member

    hi,

    I hope this thread is still active...

    Im delighted to learn about this genetic scanning. May I know if this scan similar to the usual detailed scan at 20 weeks (besides the fact that the former is 3D and latter is 2D)?

    My Oscar result is not good. I'm given option to do CVS or amnio. I have not decided which one to go for. Good to know there is another option available now at Camden medical.

    hope those with experience on this can enlighten me. thanks!!
     
  48. greentara

    greentara Member

    Hi Ixora,

    The genetic scan is a lot more detail than the 2D scan.
     
  49. sonic

    sonic Member

    Hi TaraG

    Thanks for the info. Will discuss with hubby and see when to consult Dr Anandakumar.

    Wondering why KKH gynae and genetic counselors didn't know or didn't refer me to this. They seems to be in favor of CVS, strongly advised me to go for CVS earlier, rather than amnio.
     
  50. fruche

    fruche Member

    Hi, I'm supposed to update here....my 21st week detailed scan with Prof went well. [​IMG]

    Ixora, I was in your position before and I chanced upon this thread. So I went to see Prof during my 15-16th week to get a 2nd opinion and was advised not to go for amnio. (actually I'm surprised your gynae didnt tell you but risk with CVS is higher than amnio...double actually. Unless your risk is really really high and they need to know the answer immediately. Cos CVS gotta be done earlier and if termination required, it can be done relatively early. Amnio is done at a later stage and if termination required, it may be a more complicated process).

    Anyway when I called my gynae to cancel my amnio, the recep there asked me why and I told them I went for a genetic scan...they immediately asked if its Prof Ananda...and commented that he's prob the one and only doing this kind of scan in sg. So they knew about him no doubt and some other patients have gone to him too.

    I do not know what are your actual results like....but if you want a 2nd opinion, I highly recommend Prof.
     
  51. greentara

    greentara Member

  52. sonic

    sonic Member

    Fruche,
    Glad to know your test result turns out well. Happy for u.
    My risk of trisomy 13 was estimated 1:20 (very high risk) therefore KKH strongly recommendinvasive tests. but they claimed both CVS and amnio has same risk profile in KKH, thats 1 in 300 M/C risk. But what I researched online was exactly like what u said, CVS has higher risk. Therefore I am quite hesitated to take that.
    Thanks for recommendation, I think I will consult prof first.
    You didn't do anything until seeing prof in week 15-16? I'm in my 12 week now, I guess I cant wait that long.

    TaraG,
    Thanks for the inspiring video clip. In fact my friend forwarded this to me before, but due to some reasons, I didn't view it. God is so real, I believe it's God who leads me to this thread.
    Thanks.
     
  53. tangerinez

    tangerinez Member

    Ixora, big hugs. I've done both amnio (2x infact) and genetic tests so I would like to offer my two cents worth.

    Pretty sure you already know why CVS is more accurate compared to amnio. Key is to have someone good to do it for you. It's the skill of the doc performing the test that lessens the risk and also you yourself must take care to rest more.

    You are in week 12. Call Prof's clinic and ask, I believe genetic scans can be done as early as week 14 (or even 13). Then you do not have to wait so long.

    Oscars is very deceiving, I highly suggest do genetic scan first. If not conclusive, then amnio or CVS (if still in time to do CVS).

    If you need more info or sharing of experience, can PM me.
     
  54. sonic

    sonic Member

    Tangerinez
    I called prof's clinic. The clinic assistant gave me a slot in my week 15, 3 weeks from now. She said its better to do it later as baby is more mature by then. But then, 3 weeks is really a long wait for me. Haiz.
    I have thus far gathered info that amnio is better than CVS. perhaps u can enlighten me a bit why did you say CVS is more accurate?
    Thanks!
     
  55. tangerinez

    tangerinez Member

    Cvs extracts cells from placenta, the cells are definitely baby's.
    Amnio extracts cells from waterbag where the cells are a mix of baby and mummy. This is what my Gynae said.

    But cvs cannot test for spina bifida.

    I will say amnio is safer.

    Best of luck!!
     
  56. sonic

    sonic Member

    Tangerinez
    I see, I got what you mean. Thanks.
     
  57. fruche

    fruche Member

    Hi Ixora, yes I waited till week 16. Cos I was told that as of week 14 on, if termination required, it will be like a mini labour rather than the suction thing so when I found out about my results and with the amnio apt etc, I realize that there's no hurry. Cos if really in a hurry, cvs will b the way to go.

    My risk was trisomy 18. And for this condition, usually scans can tell quite a lot cos many parts of the baby would have problems like heart, clenched fists etc.

    I am not sure about trisomy 13 though.
     
  58. tub

    tub Active Member

    Hi ladies, any idea how much prof ananda charges per scan? How is he as compared to ann tan?
     
  59. lilacz

    lilacz Active Member

    Hi...can anyone share their experience after seeing prof and if u have delivered,is the result accurate? I'm planning to go for amino next week n chance upon this thread...is desperate to find out if my baby is ok yet worry abt miscarriage. I'm 17 weeks now...
     
  60. kym_belle

    kym_belle Member

    Hi Tub, are you seeing dr ann tan as well? I just had my harmony result and little one is triple x chromosome. Came across this thread and may consider genetic scan with prof ananda as 2nd opinion. Anyone done harmony with negative result and done genetic scan that is favourable?
     

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