Chin Leng, PLS TAKE NOTE!!!

Hi Chin Leng,
I second Tamarind. Personally I think they should be banned altogether, if not pay a fee to organise a BP. But just wonder how are you going to restrict the BP from the same source to only 2 times if the organiser do not reveal the source? As a business owner, I seriously do not think I would like to advertise in this forum if there are other business owner masquerade as a "regular" user or engaging another forumer to conduct BP.

Apart from the above, there are also unhappiness resulting from these BP as organisers are "accused" profiteering from the BP which in fact some may actually be the truth! Did any one asked to verify the actual amt paid to the supplier? I doubt.
 


hi Chin Leng,

Firstly would like to thank you for doing such a WONDERFUL job, first with Singapore Brides and now with Singapore Motherhood... THANK YOU THANK YOU
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I support your decision to not allow 'false BPs'. Perhaps you could state up front that every BP that is started - the organiser must state which supplier the BP is from? Would this help to weed out the fake ones?
 
Just sharing my two cents...

How to stop BP but allow for Amosco? No hard feeling to Amosco addicts, fans and fanatics, merely using it as an eg. since it has been brought up. It has to be across the board in order to be effective else we will be back to sq one again.

How can we be sure that there isnt profiteering in sprees? Do we get to see the credit card bills of organizers? All along it has been a give-and-take situation. We want to purchase the items, there is a willing organizer so that is it. Honestly, sprees can still go on with mommies coming together to collate their purchases. They need not be posted upfront on the forum, tapping on the free resources if you thknk about it. I believe there are alot more sprees that you can see in the posts.

I am a fan of BPs and Sprees. By making comments like this, I will get to lose out too. But with the frequent changes and measures (eversince I start to frequent this forum), I feel that there must be a fullstop somewhere or we are going to lose this marketplace altogether. Let us look at the big picture for once.
 
Hi all,

Yes, I think it is ok to not restrict sprees that are ordering from overseas website. However, once it is known that there are local suppliers who provide the foreign brands, the same restriction will apply.

When the business owner becomes an advertiser of SingaporeMotherhood, the restrictions will be removed during the duration of the advertising period.

For future BP organisers, it may be required for them to state all the required details, like the source, company name etc. This way, it'll be clearer if the source is new.

We are still ambivalent about Amosco eclairs. I mean, they are also a business. Why should we restrict other business and not Amosco? It'll be a lot easier if the mothers in the forum can encourage Amosco to advertise with us too.

kao_biggrin.gif


Regards,
Chin Leng.
 
Hi Chin Leng,
<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!><font size=1>quote:</font>

...I think it is ok to not restrict sprees that are ordering from overseas website... <!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote>
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hi chin leng,
do you mind elaborating on your comment?
"Yes, I think it is ok to not restrict sprees that are ordering from overseas website. However, once it is known that there are local suppliers who provide the foreign brands, the same restriction will apply."

cos as far as I know, there are suppliers selling factory overruns of ON, Gap etc. But that's not quite the same as what we get directly from US now. am a little perplexed by what you mean and what the concern is.
kao_confused2.gif
 
Hi Tuffy,

As long as no local business owners or suppliers are making use of the forum for their own purposes, then it is alright. The proposed restriction is to prevent further abuse of the forum. If it is a genuine spree for purchases from overseas, I would like the genuine mothers in the forum to continue enjoy organising sprees.

What my concern is that there may come a time when certain brand becomes popular, some business may be setup to supply the products here. When that happens, there will be local retailers and they may try to pass off as sprees when it is in fact themselves selling their own stocks through the forum. We don't want that abuse to happen in the forum.

Regards,
Chin Leng.
 
Chin Leng,
Thanks so much for allowing sprees from overseas websites !

If someone organize BP for a certain piece of "Gymboree", "Old Navy", or "Carters" clothing, claiming that they are getting from a local supplier, they will be banned, right ?

How about those who bought a large amount (50 or more) of a specific item, claiming that they cannot finish, and want to sell them ?

Or someone coming back from USA, bought many brand new pieces of Old Navy/GAP clothing, and re-sell them here ?
 
thanks chin leng for the explanation. make sense.
happy.gif
I also hope that this forum remains sustainable in the long run.

To do my little part to save bandwidth, I will drop you a PM when my "sale" threads are completed so that they can be deleted. Alternatively, do you think it is a good idea to start a category for pple to post requests to delete "dead" threads to save space?
 
Hi Tamarind,

The BP will only be disallowed when it has exceeded the number of BP organised for the same supplier. For example, if we set the number at 2 (very likely), BP from this source after the second time will be disallowed.

Currently, I would like to resolve the abuse in BP threads first. For those mums saying that they bought too many of a single item and would like to sell them, as long as they are not making a profit, they would be allowed in the "Want-to-sell" category. I would tend to allow it until I found reasons to believe they are business owners masquerading as members. This would be the same as what we are doing now.

If someone buys too many brand new pieces of ON/Gap clothings, if it is not too many and not too often, I would tend to want to believe the member selling them.

Regards,
Chin Leng.
 
Hi Chin Leng,
Would like to check and confirm once more. What exactly do you mean by 'When the business owner becomes an advertiser of SingaporeMotherhood, the restrictions will be removed during the duration of the advertising period.'
Does it mean that the business owner has the right to conduct Bulk Purchases? As long as they are paying for the Business thread? So does it mean that if some mothers who are interested in the products that the Business member has, it will be best for them to voice out their interest in Bulk Purchases and get the biz owner to start one on their behalf?

Thanks and well done for all the good job done!
 
Hi Tuffy,

You don't have to send us a PM to inform us when the sale thread is completed. Once a thread is no longer active for a certain period of time, it'll be automatically removed by the system.

Your requested thread has been removed as requested.

REgards,
Chin Leng.
 
Hi Bubsnbenoit,

For any advertiser, their threads will be restricted to the "Business Section" only. However, if any mothers would like to organise any BP for any supplier who happens to be our advertiser at that point in time, they can do so in the BP and Spree section which is meant for the mothers. This also means that the 2 BP restriction for the advertiser will be waived during the advertising period.

The advertiser if choose to conduct BP by himself/herself, the BP thread will still remain at the "Business Section".

Regards,
Chin Leng.
 
Chin Leng, then there will be a loophole that the advertiser pose as a "mother" to organise a BP just when his advertising period is ending, so as to be able to "extend" his advertisement period for free?

Anyway, I personally feel that you should let BP section be controlled. Anyone who wishes to create a BP thread, to seek SMH's permission with information such as supplier source, etc. Then you can issue a code to be listed in the title to create that thread. No code in the title means no permission and SMH can remove the thread without notice.

I also feel that irregardless of the source of the BP/websites/cakes, you should charge a fee for organising a BP. The organiser can share the costs amongst those who decide to join the particular BP. Ultimately, the slight addition to the price of the items should not be much.

In addition, seeing that BP threads has increased so much, SMH will be able to recover some costs used to support the huge traffic for these particular threads. I'm sure most mothers here will not mind paying SMH (a known "supplier") since most are already freely paying unknown suppliers.

IMHO, if one wants to organise a BP and create awareness for a particular product or supplier, then you have to bear the costs of the advertisement (whether or not the other mothers who join you agrees to pay the fee or not).

In this case, SMH will not have to restrict the number of unknown BPs since SMH will be able to recover some cost per thread set up.
 
Thanks Chin Leng for providing a clearer picture now. Anyway, I feel that what Jen has mentioned is indeed a great suggestion. Thanks once again.
 
but what about if the BP fails to take off which can happen quite frequently? would be quite unfair for the mommy who start the thread to have to pay for the costs herself then....?
 
Maybe it should just be a small amount - not like what the pple at the biz section have to pay. But then again, is that defeating the purpose. Now that you've brought that up Working Mom, the matter gets a lil confusing.
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I do agree that BPs organisers should seek for moderators' approval just like threads in Business section..
But to charge a fee..Hmmm, maybe that can be implement later if seeking approval doesnt improve the situation?
 
hi ChinLeng,
Just a suggestion..
Instead of restricting BP of the same source for 2 times or so, how about restrict it by frequency eg. one year once?
Don't think business owner can survive with our BP like that so they won't rely here for business.
At the same time mothers that miss the previous BP at least have a 2nd chance to get it next year. Otherwise we may end up participating the BP although our kid still very young just for fear of missing a good deal (woman's nature
happy.gif
).
 
If the fee charged to start a BP is less than what business owners have to pay to advertise in the Business Section, the "disguise" will probably come up again. Eventually SMH gets to earn some money but the situation is going to be back to sq one.

On the contrary, if the fee charged is higher than the advertising fee in the Business Section then it will not be practical for us to join in the BP coz the cost saving may not be enough to share the fee.
 
Just a thought that sprang up all of a sudden.

How about rewarding businesses who advertise in Business Section with 1 BPs for every 1 (or even 2) advertisements? Well, provided the system allows and requires little monitoring otherwise it defeats the purpose again. This is for the case should BPs be banned totally.

I was thinking this could be a lure for more businesses to advertise their goods and services with SMH
happy.gif
 
Working Mom, the reason why CL is asking for opinion is because bandwidth for the forum has increased greatly... do note that many threads are merely "testing waters" and when there are *finally* responses, the entire thread evolved into a BP thread... do not forget that even when one is "testing waters", SMH is the one ultimately bearing the costs!!

Have anyone thought that the people who are "testing waters" might actually be business owners themselves? IF you are a genuine mother who have been consistently sharing in the forum, u will have a group of close friends (on other threads) whom u can seek their opinion about the certain products (without tapping on free resources of SMH) which u are interested to get before considering opening a BP thread...

In order to cut down on unnecessary threads creation for BP, I feel it's still better to charge a fee... so that everybody will bear in mind not to suka suka "test waters" for a BP...

That said though... some BP needs a minimum quantity to be met before the discount kicks in... maybe SMH can considering charging only if the BP is successful... then, that will save the problem Working Mom brought up...

Suggestions for payment:
(a) Payment to SMH should be done first before the thread can be created... rather than payment after the BP as the thread starter might default on paying SMH since the BP is completed...

If ur BP did not evolve (due to lack of response or minimum quantity not met), you can either:
1. pay the fee yourself since u wanted to take the risk of opening a new BP thread
2. write to SMH for a waiver (only for first time offenders)

(b) Payment to SMH can be done after the BP is considered successful, such as when the minimum quantity has been met... if the organiser fails to pay up then, the thread will be locked by moderators for new posts, thus preventing more bandwidth being consumed and the organiser continuing happily without paying...

Ultimately, ask yourself:
1. Do you want SMH to ban BP altogether (like some other forums)?
--> I'm sure the answer will be NO as everybody wants good stuff at cheap prices!

2. THEN DO YOU WANT THIS FORUM TO SHUT DOWN JUST BECAUSE OF BP THREADS ABUSE?
--> If NOT, then don't anyhow open threads for BP!! And the only deterrent is $$$!!
 
Just wondering if it will help if Chin Leng compiles a list of the websites which BP will be allowed? I think it is always the same few sites that we see. So maintaining a list may not be too difficult. Anything new can then be added onto the list after clearing with Chin Leng. If the site is one which hasn't been cleared... the thread will be automatically removed.

The other way to save bandwith is for the threadstarter to post the details of the BP and any mummies interested will either need to PM or email the organiser to confirm and communicate. So essentially only 2 posts will be allowed in one thread. One to start the BP and and second to announce that the BP is closed.

I think it will be tough to just restrict 2 threads relating to BP of that one particular product. It will be hard to police. Moreover some threads continue to be around even after the BP is closed for one reason or another. Does that mean this thread will still be counted? And since most of us here are mummies to young children, the collection point is an important factor... which invariably leads to one product having many BP being organised.
 
I guess if they organise privately, then will not be using the forum's bandwidth... then there will be no bandwidth wasted right?
 
Just my thought, I think mummies have to take up the responsibility as well. With the name of BP, many mummies think that it must be a good bargain and lobang. Without realising, this so-called BP or lobang could be some business gimmicks to get sales. When someone is offering the same item at the same price, probably no one would bother to take a look. But when the "BP" or "lobang" is being conferred to it, even at a higher price, many will jump at it.
 
I agree with Odie that we should have a list of approved websites that can be allowed.

I also agree with Jen that prior approval is needed before a new thread can be posted in the BP/Sprees section. This will effectively reduce the bandwith.

Since it is so easy to start a spree here, someone can just start an ON spree, collect the money and simply disappear. I feel that tigher control is necessary.
 
Other users should also be responsible. There are many users who post multiple threads (same subject) in different sections, as well as those who post a few threads in the same section selling the same stuff.

For small sprees (e.g. Birkenstock) where only 3-4 buyers are required to enjoy free shipping, the organiser could look through existing threads and sound out those who have expressed interest (or missed out) via pm without having to start a new thread. This was how I went about organising my spree. It is more work on the part of the organiser at first but it does help to save server space and every little bit helps.

I would like to suggest that each user be registered with the NRIC number. This is to prevent dubious users &amp; business people in disguise to keep acquiring new usernames (&amp; email accounts) when they have been banned for good reason. This way, the moderators can ban the NRIC number in the system, which is very easy to track. To prevent people from entering bogus NRIC numbers, perhaps SMH can consider getting users to send a photocopy of their NRIC. This may sound like a lot of work but it should help make everyone aware of the rules which should be adhered to and be more responsible. Hopefully, this can weed out the business people and dubious users who abuse the forum, which results in penalising the genuine ones. Users can still retain their anonymous identities as their NRIC details will not be made public. (I see countless people furiously filling out contest forms which request many personal details so submitting your NRIC number should not be much of an issue here where privacy is concerned.)
 
Michelle,
I support your idea to send a photocopy of NRIC, but I think this is only necessary for BP/spree organizers, because a lot of money will go through them.

There are so many ordinary users, I believe there may be more than 10000, I don't think the admin has the time or effort to go through everyone.

I have seen cases where users are not able to find the organizer, after repeatedly sending emails or SMS. With the NRIC, it will be easier to track down the organizer.
 
Hi Tamarind,

If we exclude the others, then business people can still post their items for sale without paying the fee and some dubious sellers can make off with the money without delivering. If everyone submits their NRIC number, those who MIA can also be traced. Moreover, excluding some also means anyone can still register for a new username and we are back to square one again.

Some may be afraid of responding to pm/email regarding participating in a small spree for fear of these unknown users duping their money. However, if proper measures are in place, more people may be encouraged to organise/participate as it becomes "safe".

Perhaps a small team of reliable volunteers can help out in the initial stage.
 
Michelle,
Like Jen wrote earlier, anyone who wants to post a thread in the BP section must first seek approval from the admin. They need to send a copy of their NRIC. Otherwise their thread will not be posted. This should be a lot less work for the admin.
 
What about the sellers in the other sections? Some actually run a business - they list a few items for sale but when you reply to enquire, they send you a whole long list of brand new items (with the various sizes, designs, etc.) and the weblinks. I thought these were not allowed in the forum as they do not pay a fee.

These users are banned only when someone reports them. When their accounts are suspended, they can easily re-register again with a new id. How do we stop these people then?

When approval has to be sought by the admin, time is also involved. Imagine having to go through requests to start 50 new threads each day (perhaps I over-estimated but there seems to be a lot of threads, some unnecessary in the BP/spree section). I would think in the long run, it is more time-consuming than the NRIC registration but Chin Leng would know best.
 
I don't support the idea of submitting the NRIC. You will notice lately that more organisations are more circumspect about disclosure of IC no. Many only ask for the last 4 digits to be disclosed as really you don't need all the nos to verify if you won a lucky draw. With so many cases of identity theft going around, I don't think we should treat the issue of privacy lightly. i believe this is the current government wide policy too.
 
There are lots of people who are very willing to disclose their NRIC number &amp; name when filling out lucky draw forms, signing up for freebies, etc. which are conducted by all sorts of organisations. How many actually check the backgrounds of these organisations prior?

The information on the front of the NRIC card only states the number and name, so it's not that easy to commit identity theft.

Anyway, it's only a suggestion and there is no one solution which will make everyone happy ... so let's keep brainstorming!
 
Yup, I enjoy the brainstorming as it keeps my brain going. Haha
biggrin.gif


Not sure if you notice/ have encountered, many lucky forms now require us to fill in only the last 4 digits of our NRIC
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Must the spree organiser be one of the buyer too? Or just simply create a spree to 'help' pooling the purchases? any control on this?
 
Hi Prettymama,

No, I didn't realise lucky draw forms now only require the last 4 digits of the NRIC. I haven't filled out a lucky draw form for years (can't be bothered as the chances of winning are so miserably low it's not worth the effort) and my maids have a habit of chucking out the ones from the supermarkets.

If the idea of submitting NRIC is to be considered, perhaps we could black out the photo and the first 3 digits so what appear are the last 4 digits and the name. I don't think this is a big deal but maybe a hassle for the admin.

Ah, must keep brainstorming ...
 
Dear Michelle

I havent given up trying though Lady Luck is very often not on my side
happy.gif


It may be a bit of a problem when it comes to filing and storage (resources wasted). Moreover it takes time for photocopying and posting (and risk losing it in the mail). No fool-proof method it seems. Haiz...
 
Just got a feeling that BP may eventually be banned unless everyone abides by the rules. But there again, if everyone can play by the rules the problems wont have existed in the first place right?

Closing down BPs will force organizers to establish their network to gather no. of the bargain, cost-savings or discounts. How to make friends? Participate more actively in discussions to get to know others and for others to get to know you. WIN-WIN situation?
 

and she ever posted this

'mrs Poh,
i would appreciate if u stop being such a tell-tale and report people's threads.
i have more than one size for the clothes because my husband bought wrong sizes and the most a couple of xtra for my son and nephews. i dont have a bulk amount to sell, so it shouldnt be under the business thread. its just clearing what i dont need at home.

so please, if u have nothing better to do, dont make other people's lives worse.
thanks.'

she mentioned her son/nephews, then why got girls clothings? with more than a size?
 
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