What steps can be taken to prevent scams in SMH

mjqueen

Well-Known Member
Dear all, in view of the recent scam case, what steps can be taken by the admin to eradicate such umpleasant experiences in future?

@ mod Char, I have PM you regarding a potential scam, I would like to hear your views
"I" represented by a few of us concerned buyers
 


Moderators,

I hv seen scams in BP since few years ago, and it has been getting worse. The most "memorable" scam is the RWS tickets few years ago. The person fulfilled the sales in the first BP, but did not do the same for the 2nd BP. Why is it moderators hv not step up to protect forum members from suffering the same fate as in few years ago? Why is it that moderators do not advise members to report to the police immediately when such scams are revealed to be true?

Why do moderators still give these dishonest sellers lee way? All of them come up with the same tactics over and over again to delay refund. If members report to the police immediately, maybe these scammers will not try to scam again because they would know SMH forumers are not easily fooled by their excuses.

These scammers deserve a police record because what they did are wrong in the first place. By being lenient to them will only make them even more daring in repeating such scams in future.

I hope all forumers will take extra care in buying from a newly registered member esp when the deal is too good to be true, and do not hesitate to report to the police when the BP has proven to be a scam. After the recent scams, the more I'll be wary of buying from newly registered sellers.
 
Dear all, in view of the recent scam case, what steps can be taken by the admin to eradicate such umpleasant experiences in future?

@ mod Char, I have PM you regarding a potential scam, I would like to hear your views
"I" represented by a few of us concerned buyers

I also can see which BP(s) you might be mentioning.
I feel current BP is related to the ongoing Scam organizer though might not be true.
All offers seems too good to be true.
Moderator,Please have a look on it to check ,before it might turn to another scam.
Mummies,need to be beware of too good offers from newly registered users.
 
I also can see which BP(s) you might be mentioning.
I feel current BP is related to the ongoing Scam organizer though might not be true.
All offers seems too good to be true.
Moderator,Please have a look on it to check ,before it might turn to another scam.
Mummies,need to be beware of too good offers from newly registered users.
mod replied my PM saying they are monitoring closely
 
Hi moorspa7,

We have always suggested and urged members to report to the police and have volunteered my contact information so that the police can reach me for further information if they require.

You are right about being cautious when buying online:
- Do take note of the market rate of the item you intend to buy and exercise caution when the offer is too good.
- Please also be cautious when the order received is large. The seller may not be able to handle it. With this, I will like to urge members to place order in the thread, so that everyone is aware of the order placed and status thus decide if they are comfortable in joining the BP.

We would also like to prevent and reduce fraud to the minimum. This is why, since many years ago, we require new BP organisers to submit their IC images (front/back) when they apply for an account. Unfortunately, the recent fraudsters seemed to have become bolder and creative.

In view of this, we would be only allowing new BP organisers to have only one ongoing BP thread (to be implemented). We are also considering the feasibility of requiring new BP orgainsers to take a selfie with their IC. We would do our best to implement the new measures as soon as we can.

saha23 and mjqueen,
Thank you and we really appreciate your alert and feedback.

P.S. We would also welcome any ideas to help us improve. Thank you.
 
Hi bee Lee,

I am glad that you will be placing more restrictions for new BP organizers. I hope you can implement these new measures as soon as possible. I agree that fraudsters are getting bolder and creative, with regards to RWS scam. The organizer earn the trust of the customers in the first bp but played the customers out in the 2nd BP. This is an incident that I will never forget even though I was not a victim. It shows the fraudsters are more intelligent nowadays.
 
Bee Lee,

Regarding reporting to the police, will it be better for u to report the scam to the police first and then get the affected victims to report as well? For the moderators to take the lead to report to the police first, you would be creating an example that the BP scam is a serious matter. I feel the victims just want to get a refund, worst comes to the worst, then they will report to the police if they can't get a refund. I have seen similar behaviours in the previous scams over the years.

By the time they decide to report to the police, won't it be too late for the police to carry an investigation? The fraudsters might take the chance to destroy any evidence that is against them.
 
Bee Lee,

Would the moderators be able to come up with a list of guidelines on buying from bp so that the new members know what to look out for when they are buying from BP?
 
Hi moorspa7,

The police does not act upon our report since we are not the victim.

With regards to the guidelines, thank you for the suggestion, we will work on that.
 
Dear admin, as seen in all the scam cases which happened recently affected buyers did not report to the police immediately because they are primarily interested in getting back their hard earned $$
They resorted to threatening the seller with police report for failure to refund and give seller ultimatum to fulfil the refund request
Hence the case just drags on endlessly as these seller kept asking for "chances" / more time and made empty promises to do the refund
You can't fault the buyers for believing the lies cos they really want their money back! Every lie gave them hope......sounds pretty ironical but that's the truth!

Yes, you guys are not the victims and you do not have a case with the police but posting on the thread to advise buyers to make police report is not a good solution too. It is too passive, you must understand that these buyers do not get scammed very often. When met with such case, they are really lost too.
We see them as a group of victims but everyone of this individual feels isolated as no one knows each other. They probably need you guys to give them more directions to proceed. I think besides tabulating their losses in the form of table and posting on the BP, asking them to confirm with you if refund has been received, perhaps you can be more proactive in gathering them together and make the police report together?
I understand that they can lodge a police case online, to the computer savvy and the more "updated" mommies, this may not be too difficult but what about those not so savvy ones? Those homemakers who have "lost touch"?
Someone got to be the "leader" you know what I mean and who can be the most suitable candidate other than a SMH admin staff? You guys are running this forum, you guys must do more than giving verbal advice.

And the question which I think most of us want to know is after making the police report, then??? How long more before they can get back their money?
As I know, the RWS case just went "dead" mommies did not get back their $$, what happened to the scammer? Jailed? released already?? declared bankrupt?? Then $$ leh??
 
Hi mjqueen,

Our primary objective is the same as the affected members, to get back their money.

We first approach the organizer while we establish the background of the disputed BP. Tabulating loss and updating status allow us to understand and assess the situation so that we can decide what to do.

Mummies have different timing and work and live in different areas, that's why I thought it is more convenient to report online. Lodging a police report requires only a SingPass, which you can apply online, and the rest is like participating in this forum. It takes 10-15 minutes to complete the form.

Having said that, I take note and appreciate your advice.

With regards to RWS case, the affected members took their discussion off-line. We helped them with the Small Claims Tribunal form and have provided the police with the information they need. The case went to court earlier this year.
 
Dear Admin

I nearly fell prey to the RWS scam years ago and now I am one victim from BP scam under Toyorders. I have reported once via the “report” link when I smelt something fishy. But I did not receive any respond from any admin/moderators. Toyorders continued with her 2nd batch of bp and cheated more money out of it.

Then when I finally confirmed that it is a scam after not receiving my orders, I posted my feedback under the “Bad spree organizer” thread. But again I did not receive any respond from admin and see no action at all.

I am a FTWM and do not have all the free time to find out how to report a scam, and was hoping admin could do something about it. I had expected admin to at least stop Toyorders from cheating and collecting more money but nothing was done.

What I wanted to say here is, Admin you have all the informations of BP organisers and you are in the best position to start investigation immediately whenever you receive any feedback, and put a stop to any suspected scams even before the whole bp is closed. Maybe you can move suspicious scam bp to another section under “Investigation” and stop the organiser from further collecting more money from unsuspecting buyers until everything is ok and confirmed not a scam. If nothing is done and Admin just keep asking mummies to just go report to police, will people think that the forum is in cahoots with the scammers? Even if you are not a victim but people is making use of your forum for fraud, I am sure you can file a police report too.

I have been with Singaporebrides/Motherhood forum for 10yrs and I really loved this portal. Hope this forum can continue and kept safe for all mummies. Glad that you will be implementing new measures for more checks.
 
Yes I have requested moderator to contact me, but received silent treatment. How do u expect us to report when u r not made available?

Mommies have been proactive in alerting potential scams, if bp still carries on, and more mommies fall into the trap, it will only make SMH a scammers' nest.

Should the media gets hold of the news that SMH is full of bp scams, I cannot imagine what will happen next.....
 
Hi amie,

We take serious note of your feedback and will definitely look into how users can alert us more conveniently and promptly.

Toyorders' last BP closed on 8 Oct, which is before your report date. After that, Toyorders did not run any more BP.

When we have doubts over a BP, we reject any new BP request or extension request from the organiser while we monitor the progress of the delivery.
If we are certain that a running BP is not going well, we closed the BP prematurely and moved it to Closed BP folder for coordination. We then tried to have the organiser to refund as much money as possible, while we urge the affected members to report to the police.

If we are in cahoot with scammers, why would we ask members to report to the police?


amie, mjqueen and moorspa7,
I understand your point of view and we appreciate your feedback.

As we brainstorm for measures to prevent fraud, we are also trying to help recover the loss for the affected members.

Anyone can report to the police but the police does not have a case if there is no victim's report.
 
Hi bee lee,

I saw this posting by chance, http://singaporemotherhood.com/forum/threads/rws-scam.3140/#post-7566231 .

The accused is being charged with 14 months imprisonment. I hope this will deter fraudsters from trying their luck in the forum. I also hope that all victims do not hesitate to report these fraudsters to the police whether they receive their refund or not. Most importantly, these fraudsters must be brought to justice.

Guidelines on what to do when a seller is found to be a fraud will do a lot of good to buyers, so that they know what to do immediately.
 
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Hi moorspa7,

Thank you, we have received the letter as well.

The person charged and convicted is Ms Sharifah Hanim Syed Idros. She was the 'business partner' of the organiser (AzilCyan).
 
Can consider making it mandatory in your guideline for seller doing pre-order to post table of buyers with their orders at the end of BP
Then everyone can see at one glance all involved party
 
Hi mjqueen,

It is good though the challenge is how to make it mandatory. Some buyers send in orders through PM and email, making it harder to trace the status of the BP.
 
Dear admin, it really happened.
This is a well-planned scam, the seller should be asked to do refund to all affected buyers period.
 
Please enforce her to do refund immediately not to drag for months.
Agree with mjqueen,well planned scam.Lies after lies.
 
Exactly the same tactics used by Toyorders, had a strong feeling they are the same person. If yes, how was she able to start another thread so easily.
 
Dear Admin,

As you can see right now that there an on going Bedsheet BP leading no where. Is there somewhere you can assist us buyer to claim back our money?

Thank you.
 
For info.

A consolidated report as shown.
I noticed some of the threads got no report at all so I do a one time police report submission as a non-victim.
J/20150324/7012

DBS Savings Plus 1201009472

http://singaporemotherhood.com/forum/threads/closed-hello-kitty-world-tobot-korean-toys-in-singapore-now.133192/page-3
DBS savings plus 1201009472
At least $217.17 involved Dtd 16/Oct/2014
Police report:
J/20150324/7012
J/20150316/7007


http://singaporemotherhood.com/forum/threads/closed-10-bedsheet-all-sizes-good-quality.133891/page-18
DBS savings plus 1201009472 At least $5526.05 involved Dtd 20/Oct/2014
Police report:
J/20150316/7007
E/20141104/2004
D/20150105/7011
F/20150107/7012
J/20150108/7013
F/20141231/7006
F/20150209/7014
A/20150210/7000
G/20150210/7011
J/20150213/7025
F/20150301/7024


http://singaporemotherhood.com/forum/threads/closed-2-per-set-waterproof-name-stickers-3-sizes-100-design.134685/page-8
DBS savings plus 1201009472 At least $700 involved Dtd 23/Oct/2014
Police report:
J/20150324/7012

http://singaporemotherhood.com/forum/threads/closed-children-tee-5-each-from-taiwan-korea.134929/page-3
DBS savings plus 1201009472 At least $650 involved Dtd 24/Oct/2014
Police report:
J/20150324/7012



Remember, what the scammer/impersonator wants is to be forgotten after the scam/fraud so as to start a few new plot/scams.
Make a police report, no matter how small the amount. Once all add up, the amount is staggering.

http://www.spf.gov.sg/epc/policereport_info.html

Do not suffer in silence. Help one another to build the case bit by bit.
At least there is an official black and white police report of this act.
 
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Remember to keep a record of the private messaging, pm, between scammers/impersonators and you. If there is any element of scammers/impersonators threatening you, include it in the police report. Eg: threaten to stop delivery/refund if you report to police, administrator, post on public thread. Or you feel threatened by the fact that the scammers/impersonators have your details/address, ...etc.

Important as scammer/impersonator will want their dubious actions out of the public threads so as to control the buyers individually and delay all lawful actions that can be taken against the scammer, impersonator and fraudster.

Please update Administrator of any suspicious content in your PM.
 
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It is sad to see scam cases happening here in such close proximity. Perhaps we can brainstorm on how to deter such thing from happening. The bulk purchase threads are getting too quiet these days and I believe part of the reason is the recent cases of fraud that have taken place.

Perhaps admin can look into more stringent rules for new sellers with no track records here.
Eg admin to collect a refundable deposit if they want to run a preorder Bp
Eg buyers need only to pay half the amt and pay the remaining half when stk arrive
Eg new seller can only run ready stk Bp and can only organize preorder spree once they are active member for 1 yr

Just some thoughts, I am sure there is a need to think thru the feasibility of the rules. Perhaps all can chip in to come up with something with the aim of making this place a safer place to shop and to bring back confidence in buyers.
 
From 2012 bagspree scam.

post by wkar3n,

She cried when we spoke on phone too asking me to help her calm the situation. I was a bit empathatic and helped post saying items arrived has been either sent or being sorted out while yet arrived ones for mummies to be patient and wait. I removed the post shortly after because the thing is I realized I should only believe what I see and not what I hear. So beware, she's one who will cry and do all sorts of things to try to gain sympathy because she is fully aware that her inborn asset which is her voice coupled with crying can be really useful in appeasing us.

wkar3n, Jun 8, 2012 Report

*Scammer's usual way to get innocent victims to soften on her, and even speak up for her. It causes quite a big confusion back then with her slithering away while victims turn against victims.
Note to mummies : Please do not change from a victim to an accomplice.
 
While it is important for the admins to constantly check for any fraud cases or scams, we as users should be weary too. Do not purchase products or services online if you deem it unreliable or suspicious. Don't forget to check online by using google to see whether it is reliable too. (that's what i do sometimes) hope that helps a little. :)
 

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