IVF/ICSI Support Group

Thank god hopeful13. Dont worry. You will have enough matured n fertilized eggs to be transferred. Ya am at kkh. Wow u left meaning u came v early ar.

Rachelt kkivf can give u time off or mc.

Portia yeh I will try to call for appt today.

My scan is over ladies. Today is d5. Lining 6mm and I have 3 follies on right n 3 on left. And both side got dominant follicles at 14mm n 9mm. Dont knw what that means. My numbers are really low hor. Wonder is it coz too early as stim for 5 days only. Today day 6 havent jab
 


Hello sisters, received a piece of bad news yesterday when i went for my scan...Dr couldn't find bb heartbeat...n i m supposed to either go D&C or wait for natural miscarriage or insert a pill to force miscarriage. Was really devastating to find out at 7weeks that the miracle baby we have been waiting for will be gone...
Just want to tell all my sisters here, conceive journey is really tough esp for us...but dont give up hope....
Till now, i m holding a positive mindset...i m waiting for my menses to come quickly, n i m looking forward to a new cycle where i can try again...even if it is back to square one...the medication, the acupuncture , the dreadful wait...
So jia you everyone!
 
bliswifu said:
Hello sisters, received a piece of bad news yesterday when i went for my scan...Dr couldn't find bb heartbeat...n i m supposed to either go D&C or wait for natural miscarriage or insert a pill to force miscarriage. Was really devastating to find out at 7weeks that the miracle baby we have been waiting for will be gone...
Just want to tell all my sisters here, conceive journey is really tough esp for us...but dont give up hope....
Till now, i m holding a positive mindset...i m waiting for my menses to come quickly, n i m looking forward to a new cycle where i can try again...even if it is back to square one...the medication, the acupuncture , the dreadful wait...
So jia you everyone!
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Bliswifu,

Sorry to hear about it...... *hugz*. You are with Dr Loh right? Is there a possibility of holding out till week 8 to check for heart beat again?
 
Yes Portia :) thanks :) i m with Dr Loh...he was very sure about it based on the size of my water bag n sac...he said that it was very big, no where the baby can hide...he termed it blighted ovum...at first hard to believe...but after reading up n stuffs, i chose to believe him...n my initial sore boobs turned less sore...so i was thinking if really need to clear, just do it n move on....sad but such things do happen in life...time to go back to my dhea haa
 
mesara said:
Thank god hopeful13. Dont worry. You will have enough matured n fertilized eggs to be transferred. Ya am at kkh. Wow u left meaning u came v early ar.

Rachelt kkivf can give u time off or mc.

Portia yeh I will try to call for appt today.

My scan is over ladies. Today is d5. Lining 6mm and I have 3 follies on right n 3 on left. And both side got dominant follicles at 14mm n 9mm. Dont knw what that means. My numbers are really low hor. Wonder is it coz too early as stim for 5 days only. Today day 6 havent jab
Click to expand...
Thanks @mesara :)
 
bliswifu said:
Yes Portia :) thanks :) i m with Dr Loh...he was very sure about it based on the size of my water bag n sac...he said that it was very big, no where the baby can hide...he termed it blighted ovum...at first hard to believe...but after reading up n stuffs, i chose to believe him...n my initial sore boobs turned less sore...so i was thinking if really need to clear, just do it n move on....sad but such things do happen in life...time to go back to my dhea haa
Click to expand...
So sorry to hear that @bliswifu *hugz*.. You're one brave woman.. 加油!.. You can do it de..
 
mesara said:
Thank god hopeful13. Dont worry. You will have enough matured n fertilized eggs to be transferred. Ya am at kkh. Wow u left meaning u came v early ar.

Rachelt kkivf can give u time off or mc.

Portia yeh I will try to call for appt today.

My scan is over ladies. Today is d5. Lining 6mm and I have 3 follies on right n 3 on left. And both side got dominant follicles at 14mm n 9mm. Dont knw what that means. My numbers are really low hor. Wonder is it coz too early as stim for 5 days only. Today day 6 havent jab
Click to expand...
@mesara, hopefully the eggs hang on & continue to mature.

I was at kkivf at 8am. Didn't q as was there with hubby to collect container for 2nd sample. Was standing near counter. Once collected container, hubby went to produce sample & I left for work. Had to clear some work & say some white lies to colleagues that I am going for training & clear leave!
 
hopeful13 said:
@mesara, hopefully the eggs hang on & continue to mature.

I was at kkivf at 8am. Didn't q as was there with hubby to collect container for 2nd sample. Was standing near counter. Once collected container, hubby went to produce sample & I left for work. Had to clear some work & say some white lies to colleagues that I am going for training & clear leave!
Click to expand...
@hopeful13.. You mean no one in the office knows you're going through IVF..
Anyone of you ladies inform your boss or office you're going through IVF?..
 
bliswifu said:
Yes Portia :) thanks :) i m with Dr Loh...he was very sure about it based on the size of my water bag n sac...he said that it was very big, no where the baby can hide...he termed it blighted ovum...at first hard to believe...but after reading up n stuffs, i chose to believe him...n my initial sore boobs turned less sore...so i was thinking if really need to clear, just do it n move on....sad but such things do happen in life...time to go back to my dhea haa
Click to expand...

bliswifu,

I read about blighted ovum too... you are really brave and very positive. I hope I can be the same regardless of the outcome of this cycle. Keep me updated, k?
 
rachelt said:
@hopeful13.. You mean no one in the office knows you're going through IVF..
Anyone of you ladies inform your boss or office you're going through IVF?..
Click to expand...

Rachelt,

I shared with my male boss and 2 of my closest colleagues. It's hard not to cos theyneed to cover my work plus this is my 2nd fresh cycle in 5 months. Tough to keep it under wraps if I have to stay away from work for approx 3 weeks each round.
 
Thanks Portia :) good luck to u :) i already inserted the pill yesterday n this morning can see lots egg size blood clots plus some white cell like thing...conceiving not easy indeed...but i still believe our efforts will pay off one day! Let's not give up hope! N i agree the leave thing is so tricky...i was given 3weeks mc for initial pregnancy...now 2weeks for miscarriage..n i informed my colleagues cuz was hard to cover up... But no choice pregnant,baby still more important
 
bliswifu said:
Thanks Portia :) good luck to u :) i already inserted the pill yesterday n this morning can see lots egg size blood clots plus some white cell like thing...conceiving not easy indeed...but i still believe our efforts will pay off one day! Let's not give up hope!
Click to expand...

You rest well, babe. Just sent you a private message.
 
portia3 said:
Rachelt,

I shared with my male boss and 2 of my closest colleagues. It's hard not to cos theyneed to cover my work plus this is my 2nd fresh cycle in 5 months. Tough to keep it under wraps if I have to stay away from work for approx 3 weeks each round.
Click to expand...
Ya lor.. That's what I thought too.. I already told my male boss about it even though I hvnt even confirm the procedure with Dr THH.. No choice.. Cos he abit not happy when I was MC the other day for my first appt with KKH to discuss.. Now hope he dont use this against me.. Heard there's gonna be another round of x-ing exercise here in June.. Sian.. Quarterly affair.. Just big or small scale.. Sigh.

bliswifu said:
Thanks Portia :) good luck to u :) i already inserted the pill yesterday n this morning can see lots egg size blood clots plus some white cell like thing...conceiving not easy indeed...but i still believe our efforts will pay off one day! Let's not give up hope! N i agree the leave thing is so tricky...i was given 3weeks mc for initial pregnancy...now 2weeks for miscarriage..n i informed my colleagues cuz was hard to cover up... But no choice pregnant,baby still more important
Click to expand...
Ya indeed.. I agree with your @bliswifu.. the pain.. the discomfort.. My hubby says.. Once successful and kid 董事 time.. must tell them how precious they are and how much the mummy hvta suffer to hv them.. lol..
 
bliswifu said:
Yes Portia :) thanks :) i m with Dr Loh...he was very sure about it based on the size of my water bag n sac...he said that it was very big, no where the baby can hide...he termed it blighted ovum...at first hard to believe...but after reading up n stuffs, i chose to believe him...n my initial sore boobs turned less sore...so i was thinking if really need to clear, just do it n move on....sad but such things do happen in life...time to go back to my dhea haa
Click to expand...

hugs @bliswifu
 
Hi to all sisters here..
So long did not come in to this forum..
Went to see doctors Matthew today for review of my SIS n he asked me whether want to try this new medicine call DHEA? He say there is no side effect but I still thinking..
Would like to ask any sisters done b4 DHEA?
If yes, will like to check how is it?
 
babydusty said:
hugs @bliswifu
Click to expand...
Thanks dear :)
pupnui said:
Hi to all sisters here..
So long did not come in to this forum..
Went to see doctors Matthew today for review of my SIS n he asked me whether want to try this new medicine call DHEA? He say there is no side effect but I still thinking..
Would like to ask any sisters done b4 DHEA?
If yes, will like to check how is it?
Click to expand...
i did take dhea for a month or less n got pregnant naturally ...a miracle baby i called it since i had a failed so iui n was scheduled for ivf that very month...though i lost it now, i will continue my dhea n try again...i noticed v thick white mucus on my ovulation day , plus my ovulation came on the dot day 14, usually it will b day 15/16. I also went acupuncture, took Q10,folic,brazil nuts.
 
rachelt said:
@hopeful13.. You mean no one in the office knows you're going through IVF..
Anyone of you ladies inform your boss or office you're going through IVF?..
Click to expand...
I told 2 colleagues but they were from different department from me. My boss knows as she has gone through ivf herself so it's easier to tell her. The rest are more of just tell other team members so they don't kpo. Sometimes explaining the procedure also very tiring.
 
bliswifu said:
Thanks dear :)

i did take dhea for a month or less n got pregnant naturally ...a miracle baby i called it since i had a failed so iui n was scheduled for ivf that very month...though i lost it now, i will continue my dhea n try again...i noticed v thick white mucus on my ovulation day , plus my ovulation came on the dot day 14, usually it will b day 15/16. I also went acupuncture, took Q10,folic,brazil nuts.
Click to expand...

Oic.. Thank you for your reply...
 
portia3 said:
Rachelt,

I shared with my male boss and 2 of my closest colleagues. It's hard not to cos theyneed to cover my work plus this is my 2nd fresh cycle in 5 months. Tough to keep it under wraps if I have to stay away from work for approx 3 weeks each round.
Click to expand...

Lucky for me, the work I do there is only me & my boss. The other team members though report to same manager as me, we do different work. So in fact only my boss need to know. The rest are more of curious why I am not in office for so long. So I told my boss I will tell them I am going training and clear some leave.
 
hopeful13 said:
Lucky for me, the work I do there is only me & my boss. The other team members though report to same manager as me, we do different work. So in fact only my boss need to know. The rest are more of curious why I am not in office for so long. So I told my boss I will tell them I am going training and clear some leave.
Click to expand...
yes you are lucky indeed . I don't know how to discuss with my male boss about it . I plan to meet with Prof Wong regarding with IVF soon .
 
hopeful13 said:
Lucky for me, the work I do there is only me & my boss. The other team members though report to same manager as me, we do different work. So in fact only my boss need to know. The rest are more of curious why I am not in office for so long. So I told my boss I will tell them I am going training and clear some leave.
Click to expand...
Wah.. indeed leh.. most imptly is boss understanding..

Babylover_BabyDreamer said:
yes you are lucky indeed . I don't know how to discuss with my male boss about it . I plan to meet with Prof Wong regarding with IVF soon .
Click to expand...
@Babylover_BabyDreamer.. i just tell him straight leh.. told him i plan to go IVF and will be away during when when and hope he understands..

Best is my hubby's boss.. a lady.. hubby told her we planning for IVF and so he might needa be away when I have check-up and all.. she's very understanding.. told hubby it'll be a very tough/painful/stressful period for me once we start.. n says to go ahead if he need to.. dont worry.. wah.. that one best liao..
 
@rachelt .. yeah , I intend to hide for meanwhile , I email to Chr.NUH asking about appointment with Prof Wong , so far no reply . I mentioned , I don't want to meet or discuss with any Gynae as I already know my problem and even my previous Gynae from KKH already suggested to go for IVF , so I want to meet with Prof Wong straight . If he ask me to go through all the test again , I'm ok with it , but don't want to consult with another Gynae , tiring to repeat the stories .
 
Babylover_BabyDreamer said:
@rachelt .. yeah , I intend to hide for meanwhile , I email to Chr.NUH asking about appointment with Prof Wong , so far no reply . I mentioned , I don't want to meet or discuss with any Gynae as I already know my problem and even my previous Gynae from KKH already suggested to go for IVF , so I want to meet with Prof Wong straight . If he ask me to go through all the test again , I'm ok with it , but don't want to consult with another Gynae , tiring to repeat the stories .
Click to expand...
@Babylover_BabyDreamer.. Oh, they'll reply de.. I oso emailed them for my appt initially.. and they're quite prompt.. same day reply and even got the relevant person to call me to explain to me over the phone..
 
Babylover_BabyDreamer said:
@rachelt By the way , why do u change from NUH to KKH , any reason ?
Click to expand...
We initially was supposed to see Prof Wong on 9 Apr.. We're also on TCM meds.. We changed after we found out Prof W is quite anti-TCM.. TCM has been working well for both of us and I personally dont like it when GPs/Dr say bad things abt TCM.. They have different school of thoughts but to me, as long as it doesnt harm us and instead helped us, who is to say TCM is no good.. I dont like de.. And also found out Prof W wont see you thru delivery.. We've stopped seeing our gynae for almost 3 years and dont have a regular one now.. So wanna find the Dr who'll see us thru the whole IVF process till delivery.. So decided to drop Prof W when I found out..
Heard KKIVF Dr S and Dr T are ok with TCM and Dr T actually met up with TSB to discuss TCM and how it'll help his patients (after he heard success cases for KK nurses who took TCM).. And best of all.. Dr T will see you thru delivery if patients want him to.. So we prefer it this way and switched lor.. What about you.. U mentioned u're with KK den gonna see Prof W.. How come switch?
 
rachelt said:
We initially was supposed to see Prof Wong on 9 Apr.. We're also on TCM meds.. We changed after we found out Prof W is quite anti-TCM.. TCM has been working well for both of us and I personally dont like it when GPs/Dr say bad things abt TCM.. They have different school of thoughts but to me, as long as it doesnt harm us and instead helped us, who is to say TCM is no good.. I dont like de.. And also found out Prof W wont see you thru delivery.. We've stopped seeing our gynae for almost 3 years and dont have a regular one now.. So wanna find the Dr who'll see us thru the whole IVF process till delivery.. So decided to drop Prof W when I found out..
Heard KKIVF Dr S and Dr T are ok with TCM and Dr T actually met up with TSB to discuss TCM and how it'll help his patients (after he heard success cases for KK nurses who took TCM).. And best of all.. Dr T will see you thru delivery if patients want him to.. So we prefer it this way and switched lor.. What about you.. U mentioned u're with KK den gonna see Prof W.. How come switch?
Click to expand...
mine is different . Actually I got pregnant in 2010 but unfortunately miscarriage in 10 weeks , then I had D&C at Mt Alvernia , quite expensive . I waited for 3 months and TTC again , after 6 months , I couldn't conceive , felt so strange and looked for 2nd opnion , went to KKH , my gynae is guy from private suite , wah waiting time is so long and consultation is only 5 to 10 mins , he gave clomid for 3 cycles . Still can't , then he asked me to go through all test including HSG and found out my right tube is blocked , might be due to infection after D&C , suggested to go for IVF . By the time , I couldn't accept the fact that I can't conceive naturally .So , I tried to exercise and TTC but now I'm turning to 36 yrs soon . So now thinking to give it a try . but don't want to go back to KKH.
 
Babylover_BabyDreamer said:
mine is different . Actually I got pregnant in 2010 but unfortunately miscarriage in 10 weeks , then I had D&C at Mt Alvernia , quite expensive . I waited for 3 months and TTC again , after 6 months , I couldn't conceive , felt so strange and looked for 2nd opnion , went to KKH , my gynae is guy from private suite , wah waiting time is so long and consultation is only 5 to 10 mins , he gave clomid for 3 cycles . Still can't , then he asked me to go through all test including HSG and found out my right tube is blocked , might be due to infection after D&C , suggested to go for IVF . By the time , I couldn't accept the fact that I can't conceive naturally .So , I tried to exercise and TTC but now I'm turning to 36 yrs soon . So now thinking to give it a try . but don't want to go back to KKH.
Click to expand...
Ya.. I hvta admit the waiting time is horrible.. We waited from 11am and only managed to see Dr T at 2pm.. Than waited again to pay.. But consolation was Dr T was very patient.. And my hubby feels comfortable asking questions.. So I think it's good..
I'll be 39 this Jul and really no time to waste especially if we wanna make use of the co-pay scheme.. Once I hit 40, we're off the scheme liao.. Only 1 year.. Now can only pray and pray very hard for a successful procedure..
 
rachelt said:
Ya.. I hvta admit the waiting time is horrible.. We waited from 11am and only managed to see Dr T at 2pm.. Than waited again to pay.. But consolation was Dr T was very patient.. And my hubby feels comfortable asking questions.. So I think it's good..
I'll be 39 this Jul and really no time to waste especially if we wanna make use of the co-pay scheme.. Once I hit 40, we're off the scheme liao.. Only 1 year.. Now can only pray and pray very hard for a successful procedure..
Click to expand...
I plan to see TCM also for acupuncture , which TCM are u seeing now . I heard Jurong Ease BLK 202 is quite famous.
 
Babylover_BabyDreamer said:
I plan to see TCM also for acupuncture , which TCM are u seeing now . I heard Jurong Ease BLK 202 is quite famous.
Click to expand...
We're seeing 陈秋梅医师 @ Chinatown.. Some of the ladies here oso seeing her.. Her med uses herbs to cook type.. Hubby's SA improved after seeing her..
Health & Beauty Pte Ltd (康得美)
38 Upper Cross Street S058341
+65-6534 4208
 
rachelt said:
We're seeing 陈秋梅医师 @ Chinatown.. Some of the ladies here oso seeing her.. Her med uses herbs to cook type.. Hubby's SA improved after seeing her..
Health & Beauty Pte Ltd (康得美)
38 Upper Cross Street S058341
+65-6534 4208
Click to expand...
Thanks for info but so far from my place , I plan to see Dr Zuo from Ang MO Kio . We can share experience later . So when will u start ur procedure ?
 
Babylover_BabyDreamer said:
Thanks for info but so far from my place , I plan to see Dr Zuo from Ang MO Kio . We can share experience later . So when will u start ur procedure ?
Click to expand...
I'll be going back to see Dr T on 2 May.. Cos he asked us to consider IVF after our first discussion with him and also to see my test results.. We'll let him know we're on and if June got slots, we'll start during my June cycle..
 
rachelt said:
I'll be going back to see Dr T on 2 May.. Cos he asked us to consider IVF after our first discussion with him and also to see my test results.. We'll let him know we're on and if June got slots, we'll start during my June cycle..
Click to expand...
ok . I'm waiting for reply and my cycle for this month as well still hoping to conceive naturally :). If not , will see with Prof W and TCM at the same time . I heard acupuncture did great help for IVF .Keep in touch ! I feel this forum is encouraging me :).
 
Babylover_BabyDreamer said:
ok . I'm waiting for reply and my cycle for this month as well still hoping to conceive naturally :). If not , will see with Prof W and TCM at the same time . I heard acupuncture did great help for IVF .Keep in touch ! I feel this forum is encouraging me :).
Click to expand...
Ya ya.. We also still trying and praying to conceive naturally.. We still have 2 more tries before the real procedure.. So praying for a miracle to happen.. Hehe..
Yup.. Keep in touch and share your progress ya.. I oso think so.. If dont have this forum i'll be totally lost..
 
Blisswifu hugz gal. Really tough and painful but hold on and be strong. Will be blessed.

Sisters I also didnt tell my office anything abt ivf. All the way hide. Alot of gossipers and dont wanna hear painful comments. Already jab painful liao.

Rachelt prof was nice le and recommended tcm n moxibustion to me. Surprise to hear he anti.

Portia I left a message with dr loh clinic no one reply le. How ar. Walk in sat I guess whole say wait. Wat to do.
 
mesara said:
Blisswifu hugz gal. Really tough and painful but hold on and be strong. Will be blessed.

Sisters I also didnt tell my office anything abt ivf. All the way hide. Alot of gossipers and dont wanna hear painful comments. Already jab painful liao.

Rachelt prof was nice le and recommended tcm n moxibustion to me. Surprise to hear he anti.

Portia I left a message with dr loh clinic no one reply le. How ar. Walk in sat I guess whole say wait. Wat to do.
Click to expand...
Huh.. I dunno leh.. People tell me they take secretly cos he discourage.. Maybe he change liao..
 
mesara said:
Blisswifu hugz gal. Really tough and painful but hold on and be strong. Will be blessed.

Sisters I also didnt tell my office anything abt ivf. All the way hide. Alot of gossipers and dont wanna hear painful comments. Already jab painful liao.

Rachelt prof was nice le and recommended tcm n moxibustion to me. Surprise to hear he anti.

Portia I left a message with dr loh clinic no one reply le. How ar. Walk in sat I guess whole say wait. Wat to do.
Click to expand...
Mesara, why dun u try emailing? Email address is on their website. Also, u shld mention that u are in yr 5th day of stimulation aldy.
 
mesara said:
Thank god hopeful13. Dont worry. You will have enough matured n fertilized eggs to be transferred. Ya am at kkh. Wow u left meaning u came v early ar.

Rachelt kkivf can give u time off or mc.

Portia yeh I will try to call for appt today.

My scan is over ladies. Today is d5. Lining 6mm and I have 3 follies on right n 3 on left. And both side got dominant follicles at 14mm n 9mm. Dont knw what that means. My numbers are really low hor. Wonder is it coz too early as stim for 5 days only. Today day 6 havent jab
Click to expand...

Still early. Ur lining is not ready yet.
 
bliswifu said:
Thanks Portia :) good luck to u :) i already inserted the pill yesterday n this morning can see lots egg size blood clots plus some white cell like thing...conceiving not easy indeed...but i still believe our efforts will pay off one day! Let's not give up hope! N i agree the leave thing is so tricky...i was given 3weeks mc for initial pregnancy...now 2weeks for miscarriage..n i informed my colleagues cuz was hard to cover up... But no choice pregnant,baby still more important
Click to expand...

I did d&c for belighted ovumn miscarriage under dr loh bk in kkh. Natural termination is too painful and may not clear everything.
 
rachelt said:
Ya.. I hvta admit the waiting time is horrible.. We waited from 11am and only managed to see Dr T at 2pm.. Than waited again to pay.. But consolation was Dr T was very patient.. And my hubby feels comfortable asking questions.. So I think it's good..
I'll be 39 this Jul and really no time to waste especially if we wanna make use of the co-pay scheme.. Once I hit 40, we're off the scheme liao.. Only 1 year.. Now can only pray and pray very hard for a successful procedure..
Click to expand...

Is not the co payment issue. Is when u hit 40, success rate is less than 20% (versu 30%) and risk of miscarriage is 30% if not higher. Sorry to say this, u really got to hurry!
 
Also the part on miscarriage cost, spontaneous miscarriage can claim under shield medical plan if u hv one. I nv had to pay a single cent for the d&c under A class. Not only that i claimed all thr bills incurred 3months prior and after d&c. Ie, the scans, tests, etc, all claimed!
 
Thanks dear :) u can try calling his office again...sometimes i cannot get through the line too...but i just keep calling...
I didnt see tcm after bfp cuz i m taking duphaston (western an tai yao) n folic
mesara said:
Blisswifu hugz gal. Really tough and painful but hold on and be strong. Will be blessed.

Sisters I also didnt tell my office anything abt ivf. All the way hide. Alot of gossipers and dont wanna hear painful comments. Already jab painful liao.

Rachelt prof was nice le and recommended tcm n moxibustion to me. Surprise to hear he anti.

Portia I left a message with dr loh clinic no one reply le. How ar. Walk in sat I guess whole say wait. Wat to do.
Click to expand...
 


nervous_babe said:
Jklim4642
Have you done endo scratch before? What's your view on this procedure?
Click to expand...

I dun hv endometrosis problem. My case is unexplained infertility. 4 attempts, 3x bfp, 1 bfn recently which i associated to my age. for the 3x bfp, 1x mid term miscarriage, 1x belighted ovumn and 1 live birth.

Endo scratching is a procesure that has become more common since last year. Maybe the technique is now more matured. Previously, dr loh will do endo scratch at the same time when he does a lap to remove cyst, or for some other gynae procedures.

Endo scratch has its risks. If u ask me if i were do it, i will say, yes, provided it is done by dr sf loh and i did not bfp in earlier ivf attempt. I only trust sf loh skills coz the procdeure will touch the womb. I scar easily and if womb is scar, need to fix before can try again.

I went thru 2 d&c and i had episotomy done via natural delivery. I didn't hv any internal womb scar nor keloid at the vagina area fr episiotomy. Yes, dr loh is that skiliful.
 
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